St. Lunatic Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Our struggles at the free throw line this season made me wonder if this is an anomaly, or if maybe SLU is just a tough place for FTs. This season we are shooting 57% and ranked 349th in the NCAA 2018-19 - 59.8% and 350th 2017-18 - 65.2% and 335th 2016-17 - 66.3% and 292nd 2015-16 - 70.3% and 152nd 2014-15 - 65.5% and 293rd 2013-14 - 69.7% and 177th 2012-13 - 70.4% and 141st 2011-12 - 72.0% and 78th 2010-11 - 65.6% and 274th Take from that information what you will, but outside of the 11-12 season we've been pretty average (at best) at free throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, St. Lunatic said: Our struggles at the free throw line this season made me wonder if this is an anomaly, or if maybe SLU is just a tough place for FTs. This season we are shooting 57% and ranked 349th in the NCAA 2018-19 - 59.8% and 350th 2017-18 - 65.2% and 335th 2016-17 - 66.3% and 292nd 2015-16 - 70.3% and 152nd 2014-15 - 65.5% and 293rd 2013-14 - 69.7% and 177th 2012-13 - 70.4% and 141st 2011-12 - 72.0% and 78th 2010-11 - 65.6% and 274th Take from that information what you will, but outside of the 11-12 season we've been pretty average (at best) at free throws. Perhaps it’s a calculated risk by coaches at “smaller programs”? Thats my only galaxy brained theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Doesn't seem to bother the visiting team. RamJAMTIME likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazedandconfused Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, St. Lunatic said: Our struggles at the free throw line this season made me wonder if this is an anomaly, or if maybe SLU is just a tough place for FTs. This season we are shooting 57% and ranked 349th in the NCAA 2018-19 - 59.8% and 350th 2017-18 - 65.2% and 335th 2016-17 - 66.3% and 292nd 2015-16 - 70.3% and 152nd 2014-15 - 65.5% and 293rd 2013-14 - 69.7% and 177th 2012-13 - 70.4% and 141st 2011-12 - 72.0% and 78th 2010-11 - 65.6% and 274th Take from that information what you will, but outside of the 11-12 season we've been pretty average (at best) at free throws. Don't think there's much to it except we haven't had good FT shooters generally. Just taking a look at who shot the most FT on the team and if they are good FT shooters will tell the story: 17-20- French & Goodwin shooting a lot of FT (really bad FT shooters) 16-17 - Agbeko Crawford shooting a lot (bad) 15-16 - Reynolds Bishop shooting a lot (average) 14-15 - Yacoubou Yarbourouh shooting a lot (bad) 13-14 - Jett (ok) Evans (good) shooting a lot 12-13 - Evans Mitchell (good) Jett (ok) shooting a lot of FT - average 11-12 - Conklin Ellis shooting a lot of FT - Conklin the most by far at 80% and Ellis at 78% - good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowry Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Might be that we haven’t had to many lights out shooters either. We’ve had some decent/good shooter. But they’ve mostly been streaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 One main reason we haven't been good at free throws is that we haven't been good at shooting in general. We've been a below-average 3-point shooting team every year except 2011-2012. We've been a below average 2-point shooting team the past 6 seasons. Clock_Tower likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBL_Bills Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 16 hours ago, glazedandconfused said: Don't think there's much to it except we haven't had good FT shooters generally. Just taking a look at who shot the most FT on the team and if they are good FT shooters will tell the story: 17-20- French & Goodwin shooting a lot of FT (really bad FT shooters) 13-14 - Jett (ok) Evans (good) shooting a lot 12-13 - Evans Mitchell (good) Jett (ok) shooting a lot of FT - average French should take a page from Evans' book and learn how to bait the lane violation. It would give him an extra chance every free throw. (suggestion not to be taken seriously. French should absolutely not try to complicate his free throw mechanics even more) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 What Roy Williams said about basketball skills ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I mentioned this in the GW GDT, I paid close attention to French shoot his FTs. I'm no shooting coach, but it appears he pushes the ball at the basket with his arm fully extended after the ball leaves his hand. To me that's forcing the ball. Good FT shooters shoot them like a flat footed jump shot. Arm cocked at the elbow and let the wrists take over with very little forward movement of the forearm. Now, I can't believe Travis is teaching him to shoot it using his arm only. His shot form looks more like a pass than a shot. I also think he's got a serious mental block when it comes to FT's. When you're so bad it, you actually become afraid to shoot it. It's like those infielders that suddenly can't make the throw from second to first. I remember that Yankee second baseman, can't remember his name, who suffered through that. He became frightened of making what was a throw he made easily all his life, then suddenly he makes a couple of bad ones and it messes with his mind. All the muscle memory goes right out the window, and he's overthinking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, slu72 said: I mentioned this in the GW GDT, I paid close attention to French shoot his FTs. I'm no shooting coach, but it appears he pushes the ball at the basket with his arm fully extended after the ball leaves his hand. To me that's forcing the ball. Good FT shooters shoot them like a flat footed jump shot. Arm cocked at the elbow and let the wrists take over with very little forward movement of the forearm. Now, I can't believe Travis is teaching him to shoot it using his arm only. His shot form looks more like a pass than a shot. I also think he's got a serious mental block when it comes to FT's. When you're so bad it, you actually become afraid to shoot it. It's like those infielders that suddenly can't make the throw from second to first. I remember that Yankee second baseman, can't remember his name, who suffered through that. He became frightened of making what was a throw he made easily all his life, then suddenly he makes a couple of bad ones and it messes with his mind. All the muscle memory goes right out the window, and he's overthinking it. I have been saying all year that he has been pushing the ball. If we are correct why can't the coaches see this and try to correct? As others have suggested why can't we bring in a Drew Hanlon to work with him? If this is some type of NCAA violation during the season get it done in the summer. billiken_roy likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 My latest theory on French is that he should be shooting right-handed, not left-handed. There is some precedent for this happening to lefty big men before (Tristan Thompson). Hasahn finishes and handles very well with high right hand as well. Probably sounds ridiculous but I think I've talked myself into actually believing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, willie said: I have been saying all year that he has been pushing the ball. If we are correct why can't the coaches see this and try to correct? As others have suggested why can't we bring in a Drew Hanlon to work with him? If this is some type of NCAA violation during the season get it done in the summer. Not only does he push it. If he let go with his off hand he'd drop the ball if he didn't squeeze it. I agree with you on a shooting coach. The fact that he can't be taught to shoot them at 60% really confuses me. There's a part of me that says, give me an hour a day 3-4 days a week for 6 weeks and he'll shoot 60% or better I guarantee it. Then I think, hell, he's got Travis Ford teaching him ... wtf could I do. I've never had a kid, boy or girl, over the age of 13 that I worked with privately that couldn't shoot 60%+. His form is just so messed up and bad, I don't get it. I would make him start by shooting 1 handed. It will at least make him begin his shot holding the ball close to properly. It would at least correct a couple of the issues he now has. I think he could shoot 50% 1 handed if taught properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlarry Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I don’t even worry about Free throws with French anymore. I just assume he is going to miss them. If they go in it’s a bonus. I just don’t know what can be done at this point. What I do know is that as conference play goes on We are going to see more and more “hack-a-Shaq.” (Foul-a-French) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, slufanskip said: Not only does he push it. If he let go with his off hand he'd drop the ball if he didn't squeeze it. I agree with you on a shooting coach. The fact that he can't be taught to shoot them at 60% really confuses me. There's a part of me that says, give me an hour a day 3-4 days a week for 6 weeks and he'll shoot 60% or better I guarantee it. Then I think, hell, he's got Travis Ford teaching him ... wtf could I do. I've never had a kid, boy or girl, over the age of 13 that I worked with privately that couldn't shoot 60%+. His form is just so messed up and bad, I don't get it. I would make him start by shooting 1 handed. It will at least make him begin his shot holding the ball close to properly. It would at least correct a couple of the issues he now has. I think he could shoot 50% 1 handed if taught properly. There are literally scores of D-1 players shooting under 60%. Some of them even move onto the NBA. I don't think years and years of horrendous free throw shooting is as easy to correct as you think it is. What you really need is a time machine to visit the 13 year old version of Has before all the trouble started. billiken_roy and slufanskip like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 We need to set him up on a date with Myia Clark of the Women's team. I think I read that she has now made 35 FTs in a row. They could start the date with an hour or two in the gym practicing FTs. Hopefully she would rub off on him (no, not is an S3 way) and not him on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, willie said: I have been saying all year that he has been pushing the ball. If we are correct why can't the coaches see this and try to correct? As others have suggested why can't we bring in a Drew Hanlon to work with him? If this is some type of NCAA violation during the season get it done in the summer. totally agree willie. i have more or less been saying the same for two years. i dont care what anyone says, there is no reason french cant be coached up on free throws. he will never be kevin lisch at the line, but he should be able to at least make 50+%. now can it be done in midseason? probably not without doing damage elsewhere to his game but GD spend the summer fixing this. slufanskip likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: There are literally scores of D-1 players shooting under 60%. Some of them even move onto the NBA. I don't think years and years of horrendous free throw shooting is as easy to correct as you think it is. What you really need is a time machine to visit the 13 year old version of Has before all the trouble started. Yea, I get it. That's why I said a part of me lol. I really need the 10 year old Has. With that said I can watch his shot and there are some things he could change that imo would help him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: There are literally scores of D-1 players shooting under 60%. Some of them even move onto the NBA. I don't think years and years of horrendous free throw shooting is as easy to correct as you think it is. What you really need is a time machine to visit the 13 year old version of Has before all the trouble started. but it could have been greatly improved over an entire college career. and skip is right in an above post. it takes repetition with someone watching constantly and making immediate repairs. not just talking about and walking away and hope that the shooter can fix on their own with reps. it is a long process to fix that. some players naturally do it, others like french apparently need more attention. here is another benefit. fix the free throws (to some degree anyway) and his floor game shooting will improve as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Pretty sure I read somewhere on the board that Travis Ford claims French makes 80 of a 100 FT's in practice. If that is even close to being true then he should be doing much better in actual games. It seems like JG has been shooting better from the line lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, bauman said: We need to set him up on a date with Myia Clark of the Women's team. I think I read that she has now made 35 FTs in a row. They could start the date with an hour or two in the gym practicing FTs. Hopefully she would rub off on him (no, not is an S3 way) and not him on her. when uconn girls were here last year, one of the things i noticed is that pretty much every single girl on the uconn team shot exactly the same. free throws, threes, everything. now that isnt a coincidence. they had to be taught such. there is a reason that the uconn team is as good as it is year after year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Schasz said: Pretty sure I read somewhere on the board that Travis Ford claims French makes 80 of a 100 FT's in practice. If that is even close to being true then he should be doing much better in actual games. It seems like JG has been shooting better from the line lately. put me in the camp of "i'll believe that when i see it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 -our staff has spent all kinds of time (in season and over the summers) with our guys on ft technique, you can see proper technique sometimes, but most of the time, our guys are not doing in the game what they have been coached and practiced, if I knew why or if the staff knew why it wouldn't be this way, call it dumb, stupid or selfish (as it was to me), it doesn't make sense but that's the way it is -in some ways it sounds like a golfer that can hit it great on the practice range and not on the course -this crap about them not being coached on proper ft technique is just that, crap glazedandconfused, HoosierPal and dlarry like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 25 minutes ago, Schasz said: Pretty sure I read somewhere on the board that Travis Ford claims French makes 80 of a 100 FT's in practice. If that is even close to being true then he should be doing much better in actual games. It seems like JG has been shooting better from the line lately. I watch French during warmups before the second half starts and his percentage on those are just as bad as in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Cowboy said: -our staff has spent all kinds of time (in season and over the summers) with our guys on ft technique, you can see proper technique sometimes, but most of the time, our guys are not doing in the game what they have been coached and practiced, if I knew why or if the staff knew why it wouldn't be this way, call it dumb, stupid or selfish (as it was to me), it doesn't make sense but that's the way it is -in some ways it sounds like a golfer that can hit it great on the practice range and not on the course -this crap about them not being coached on proper ft technique is just that, crap I agree that the coaches are not ignoring this problem. They know it will cost us Ws down the line. I think your take is the same as mine, i.e. they are choking due to anxiety. When you've lost confidence all your training goes out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Too bad Forte left. Would have been nice to still have him on staff to be the full time FT mechanics/practice coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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