Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

I heard that the 3 not allowed to play had relations with the cheerleader and therefore had a non contact clause and couldn't be at games because she was. The 4th player, Goodwin, had relations with a non student so he was allowed to play. The others wouild have been allowed to play if the girl they were with was any regular student other than a cheerleader. 

That's what I heard at least. No clue if it's true but it at least makes some sense.

Why wasn't the girl not allowed to be in the arena when the guys were there. After all it seems all sex was consensual. I'm sure the guys were drinking also. So, no it doesn't make sense. Just because the world is kinda fuked up doesn't mean it makes sense. Except for possible pic sharing the girls committed the exact same offense as the guys it seems

[RiseAndGrind]

I wonder what type of activity is heinous enough to get you suspended for TWO YEARS from a University, but not bad enough to kick you out.  You don't want someone on campus for two years due to some grotesque behavior, but you're cool with them coming back after two years? I don't get it. 

[slufanskip]

8 minutes ago, teamarete said:

I want to know what SLU does to regular students who go through something similar.  Are they suspended 18-24 months?   Do regular students never partake in such activities?  I don't understand how 3/4 student athletes can be punished for actions that were deemed criminal, and at least, not have time served as part of their sentence.

Of course they can claim no charges were filed. However, is it happening and are there any procedures in place to ensure it isn't. Are there instances that people of authority have known about and no action taken? Should you have known? 

[dlarry]

23 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I wonder what type of activity is heinous enough to get you suspended for TWO YEARS from a University, but not bad enough to kick you out.  You don't want someone on campus for two years due to some grotesque behavior, but you're cool with them coming back after two years? I don't get it. 

This is what's crazy to me.

Who the hell suspends someone for 2 freaking years. What are they suppose to do sit around twiddling their thumbs for 2 years then show back up on campus ready to go to class?

Maybe in two years they figure the guys won't like having sex anymore. I doubt it because I'm going on over 30 years of liking sex and most people I know are the same way.

Anything over a year just call it what it is...an expulsion. 

[billikenfan05]

10 minutes ago, dlarry said:

This is what's crazy to me.

Who the hell suspends someone for 2 freaking years. What are they suppose to do sit around twiddling their thumbs for 2 years then show back up on campus ready to go to class?

Maybe in two years they figure the guys won't like having sex anymore. I doubt it because I'm going on over 30 years of liking sex and most people I know are the same way.

Anything over a year just call it what it is...an expulsion. 

Stay with me on this but I wonder if thats the time frame in which the accusers would graduate.

[slufan13]

I think the 2 year suspension is designed to get the players to leave without having to say you expelled them

[dlarry]

12 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Stay with me on this but I wonder if thats the time frame in which the accusers would graduate.

 

9 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I think the 2 year suspension is designed to get the players to leave without having to say you expelled them

50/50

[LindellWest]

Just now, dlarry said:

 

50/50

I appreciate the laugh in these troubled times. Also, Fire Fred

[dlarry]

4 minutes ago, LindellWest said:

I appreciate the laugh in these troubled times. Also, Fire Fred

Get Fred out of here 

[Billy bob]

I heard two cheerleaders. One was only a cheerleader for a short time and quit. I think before this.  The other cheerleader still on team.  Other not a student. 

[BillifromPhilly]

This is so unfortunate all around. The manner in which the process has been conducted and the lack of accompanying meaningful transparency, has blemished the university I cherish in ways that will be difficult, if not short term impossible to repair. Here on the East Coast, the discussion has been unfortunate and centered around the unprofessional, unusual and counterproductive handling of the whole situation by the administration

I have met Chris May before at games at La Salle , Saint Joe's and the A!0 in Brooklyn. It is disheartening to view his participation in the handling of this process. Protocol is one thing but the public relations strategy coming from the university regarding the press and outgoing communication in general is not of the style I would have associated with him. It has tarnished the way the university is locally and nationally perceived. --not to mention the abject disappointment of alumni everywhere.

Hopefully, the next stage will produce a more constructive and timely resolution of this situation. Certainly a long, drawn out. civil action serves no positive conclusion. Let's hope the powers that be surprise us and bring this to a fair, transparent and ultimate ending before more damage occurs personally and institutionally to all involved.. 

[MattyMo213]

1 hour ago, Billy bob said:

I heard two cheerleaders. One was only a cheerleader for a short time and quit. I think before this.  The other cheerleader still on team.  Other not a student. 

That’s what I heard as well

[RiseAndGrind]

46 minutes ago, BillifromPhilly said:

This is so unfortunate all around. The manner in which the process has been conducted and the lack of accompanying meaningful transparency, has blemished the university I cherish in ways that will be difficult, if not short term impossible to repair. Here on the East Coast, the discussion has been unfortunate and centered around the unprofessional, unusual and counterproductive handling of the whole situation by the administration

I have met Chris May before at games at La Salle , Saint Joe's and the A!0 in Brooklyn. It is disheartening to view his participation in the handling of this process. Protocol is one thing but the public relations strategy coming from the university regarding the press and outgoing communication in general is not of the style I would have associated with him. It has tarnished the way the university is locally and nationally perceived. --not to mention the abject disappointment of alumni everywhere.

Hopefully, the next stage will produce a more constructive and timely resolution of this situation. Certainly a long, drawn out. civil action serves no positive conclusion. Let's hope the powers that be surprise us and bring this to a fair, transparent and ultimate ending before more damage occurs personally and institutionally to all involved.. 

So long as you have no expectations of Chris May, he will not disappoint you 

[Spoon-Balls]

Some good perspective here with striking parallels to S2 (black male accused by white female). No contact order, immediate suspension from campus activities, zero due process: 

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-campus-rape-policy/538974/

 

I honestly think that if the players get lawyers who can turn this into a civil suit, and demonstrate that SLU's Title IX setup is inherently biased, they could have a legitimate case. 

[Aquinas]

5 hours ago, Billfan7 said:

Here is a podcast with Anna Kratky where she provides a very thorough overview of SLU's Title IX process.  The podcast was recorded before S2.  Coincidentally, near the end of the podcast they discuss a hypothetical where the star football player gets in trouble with the Title IX office and how ugly that can get.  Some maybe upset that she comes off as very level headed.

https://www.entitledopinions.com/podcasts/009

This audio is worth listening to if you want a better understanding of title 9 at SLU. I was struck by a few things. The penalties are severe. The standard is not guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but rather a preponderance of the evidence, which was described as, more likely than not. At SLU, taking and sharing pics or videos of a sexual nature without permission is sexual exploitation. The person assigned to the case is essentially judge and jury. My concern is not with the interview process, but rather the bias of the person in judgement and the severity of the punishment.

[almaman]

 we've speculated things might have been different if players were white.

What would happen if it was all six SLU students were non-scholarshipped would T IX being involved? Inclined to think not.. They would all get booted maybe with refunds.

Or  (this is more likely @ SP@MUC) what if they were all gay and same sex?

[Sheltiedave]

The only transparency with a Title IX investigation occurs with the published report, which happens at the end. It takes a filed FOIA request for the report to be released.

This will happen sometime over the next two months.

Keep in mind the TIX investigation can also include the SLU Code of Conduct in the findings section, which can fold in the sexual exploration and dreaded catchall community standards. This could explain in part why an expeditious appeal was filed for only one player.

[Spoon-Balls]

Here is the final part of the Atlantic's series, outlining how the system may be biased against black males in favor of white women:

 https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-question-of-race-in-campus-sexual-assault-cases/539361/

 

I really hope S2 brings some BLM protests to campus.

[Cbilkn1]

Maybe I missed it, but which player was expelled?

[Quality Is Job 1]

13 minutes ago, Cbilkn1 said:

Maybe I missed it, but which player was expelled?

We don't know.  We don't even know for complete certainty which three players Rosenblum represented or if there were just two attorneys involved.  We do know that John Rogers (sp?) disputes the notion that the player he represents was expelled or that Rosenblum knows the disposition of his client.

[Bills_06]

49 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

We don't know.  We don't even know for complete certainty which three players Rosenblum represented or if there were just two attorneys involved.  We do know that John Rogers (sp?) disputes the notion that the player he represents was expelled or that Rosenblum knows the disposition of his client.

When did that come out?

[slusam]

I wonder if/when the other 3 players appeal if they will be back at practice?

[TheA_Bomb]

On 1/20/2018 at 11:21 PM, Spoon-Balls said:

Retired after 22 years and only got one Meritorious Service Medal?  That's telling, but I bet it was the toxic masculinity of the "military" (if you count the Coast Guard) holding her back.

Ever consider having a scientist or engineer as the adjudicator?  You know someone that examines facts and draws logical conclusions.

[Quality Is Job 1]

26 minutes ago, Bills_06 said:

When did that come out?

I don't feel like locating the link to it right now, but in the story on STLtoday Friday after Rosenblum's media conference (in which he said that the three players he represents were suspended for varying amounts and a four player that he doesn't represent was expelled) it says that Rogers sent a text message saying that Rosenblum has no "first-hand knowledge" of the ruling against his client.  The story adds that Rogers offered no further comment.

[TFord and TRavs]

1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Retired after 22 years and only got one Meritorious Service Medal?  That's telling, but I bet it was the toxic masculinity of the "military" (if you count the Coast Guard) holding her back.

Ever consider having a scientist or engineer as the adjudicator?  You know someone that examines facts and draws logical conclusions.

Those medals pretty much mean she didn’t mess up bigly. They’re handed out like candy sometimes