Welcome Fred Thatch Jr.!

[WVBilliken]

21 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Do we really need another big, I would prefer no Centers for Fords play style

Based on the minutes this year's centers are getting.......agree.  Those boys will see some serious pine next year if they are still around.

[3star_recruit]

Besides Goodwin being an inch taller and having longer arms, Thatch and Goodwin are very similar players. Both kids are bullies who can pass. Those longer arms allow Goodwin to finish more plays. Thatch's hops allow him to finish plays in a more spectacular fashion.

[RiseAndGrind]

19 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Besides Goodwin being an inch taller and having longer arms, Thatch and Goodwin are very similar players. Both kids are bullies who can pass. Those longer arms allow Goodwin to finish more plays. Thatch's hops allow him to finish plays in a more spectacular fashion.

I'm guessing they're compatible players since they both play for the eagles?

[Soderball]

9 hours ago, kappy96 said:

Not the thread for this but disagree with your comment on Welmer.  I don't think you give up on a 20 year old 6'9" freshman who can shoot from distance and has a frame that can pack on pounds allowing him to play more physically under the basket.  He could end up like John Manning or he could turn into a Frank Kaminsky...either way you let him develop and prove what his ceiling is.  Where's the downside?    

"could end up like john manning"

 

exactly. i wont be shedding any tears if and when he is gone. Ford can recruit right over every single player JC brought here. Crews recruited 0 players that could hack it at this level. Move on.

 

id be fine with every JC recruit being gone next year, ive seen enough.

[juniorbill76]

19 hours ago, bonwich said:

Well, I suppose that joke may have been a tad obscure.  

 

I think I got it.

[NextYearBill]

if crews recruited you... youre not welcome 

[Billikenbooster]

1 hour ago, Soderball said:

"could end up like john manning"

 

exactly. i wont be shedding any tears if and when he is gone. Ford can recruit right over every single player JC brought here. Crews recruited 0 players that could hack it at this level. Move on.

 

id be fine with every JC recruit being gone next year, ive seen enough.

But who on Coach Ford's roster is a talented 3 pt shooter, a player who can drop out of the paint quietly, put up a three like Rob Loe did, which, if effective opens up the middle for drivers like Thatch, Jett and Goodwin.  I can see Welmer becoming that person, IF he develops.

[HoosierPal]

12 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

But who on Coach Ford's roster is a talented 3 pt shooter, a player who can drop out of the paint quietly, put up a three like Rob Loe did, which, if effective opens up the middle for drivers like Thatch, Jett and Goodwin.  I can see Welmer becoming that person, IF he develops.

Rob Loe freshman year 30 games:  6.7 ppg, 39% FG, 34% 3FG (32 made), 61% FT, 3.5 rpg, 20 blocks

Welmer, 1/2 freshman yr 16 games: 7.4 ppg, 45% FG, 40% 3FG (17 made), 57% FT, 4.5 rpg, 17 blocks

Pretty similar stats.

[CBFan]

12 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Rob Loe freshman year 30 games:  6.7 ppg, 39% FG, 34% 3FG (32 made), 61% FT, 3.5 rpg, 20 blocks

Welmer, 1/2 freshman yr 16 games: 7.4 ppg, 45% FG, 40% 3FG (17 made), 57% FT, 4.5 rpg, 17 blocks

Pretty similar stats.

Welmer having better stats playing with less talent.  Loe had Mike McCall Welmer has a walk on

[TheChosenOne]

1 hour ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I'm guessing they're compatible players since they both play for the eagles?

While they were both in the Eagles organization, Thatch was not one of the 2018s playing up (I think that group included just Darius Garland, Tim Finke, and Jericole Hellems) and played with the uber talented 16U squad last spring while Goodwin has been playing with the 17s in the EYBL the past two springs. I would assume these two have the versatility as well as strength and athleticism to play on the court together. I am really interested to see Thatch play AAU ball this spring, should give us a better idea what kind of immediate impact to expect. Man we have a physical group lined up, couldn't be a bigger difference than what we have playing currently.

[3star_recruit]

29 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Welmer having better stats playing with less talent.  Loe had Mike McCall Welmer has a walk on

Amazing that a front court perimeter player like Welmer has the numbers he has given how dependent he is on guards to get him the ball. We may have the worst passing team in the conference.

And Welmer is already one of the best shot blockers we've had since I've been watching Billiken basketball.

[Zink]

6 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Amazing that a front court perimeter player like Welmer has the numbers he has given how dependent he is on guards to get him the ball. We may have the worst passing team in the conference.

And Welmer is already one of the best shot blockers we've had since I've been watching Billiken basketball.

I really don't get the pessimism on Welmer. He has a couple of legit skills that will only be augmented by the incoming crop of talent. He's a wonderful complement to the athletes joining our ranks in the next couple of years. 

[slufanskip]

5 hours ago, Zink said:

I really don't get the pessimism on Welmer. He has a couple of legit skills that will only be augmented by the incoming crop of talent. He's a wonderful complement to the athletes joining our ranks in the next couple of years. 

I agree. I think he'll be a contributor in the coming years.

[Macallan 18]

Welmer stays and his game will improve with significantly better players on the floor.  My guess is he can't wait until next year.

Can't imagine Nuefeld stays.  I bet Gillmann and Roby stick it out.  I am 50/50 on Bishop.

[WVBilliken]

6 hours ago, Zink said:

I really don't get the pessimism on Welmer. He has a couple of legit skills that will only be augmented by the incoming crop of talent. He's a wonderful complement to the athletes joining our ranks in the next couple of years. 

Luckily the board does not run the team.  I think Weller is a keeper.

[NextYearBill]

13 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Luckily the board does not run the team.  I think Weller is a keeper.

we got crews fired and the new mascot kicked to the curb

[davidnark]

39 minutes ago, Macallan 18 said:

Welmer stays and his game will improve with significantly better players on the floor.  My guess is he can't wait until next year.

Can't imagine Nuefeld stays.  I bet Gillmann and Roby stick it out.  I am 50/50 on Bishop.

I agree Welmer needs to stay. It is easy to see how he brings a unique skill set that can compliment the incoming players. The bigger question I see is whether Zeke and Johnson have a long-term role on this team or whether they will get lost in the shuffle. They are both leaner and less explosive than most of the new players next year; they both are going to have to improve their handle, release time, and consistency from outside the arc and build more strength to slash the gaps if they are going to find a role. In NBA terms, Ford appears to be targeting a lot of Draymond Green-type recruits; Zeke and Johnson need to find their inner Thompson/Curry.

[brianstl]

8 hours ago, Zink said:

I really don't get the pessimism on Welmer. He has a couple of legit skills that will only be augmented by the incoming crop of talent. He's a wonderful complement to the athletes joining our ranks in the next couple of years. 

I think it is just the way the board goes.  After the first few games of season some people were acting like he was the second coming.  That was an overreaction and the current pessimism is an overreaction.  I don't think he will be a star player, but he has a role going forward.

[RiseAndGrind]

14 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

While they were both in the Eagles organization, Thatch was not one of the 2018s playing up (I think that group included just Darius Garland, Tim Finke, and Jericole Hellems) and played with the uber talented 16U squad last spring while Goodwin has been playing with the 17s in the EYBL the past two springs. I would assume these two have the versatility as well as strength and athleticism to play on the court together. I am really interested to see Thatch play AAU ball this spring, should give us a better idea what kind of immediate impact to expect. Man we have a physical group lined up, couldn't be a bigger difference than what we have playing currently.

I hope Thatch has a monster year in AAU and ends up in the Rivals 150. 

I may be making this up, but wasn't Goodwin a "pretty good" recruit, then really turned the corner this last AAU cycle? Would be neat to see Thatch do something similar. 

[bauman]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

I think it is just the way the board goes.  After the first few games of season some people were acting like he was the second coming.  That was an overreaction and the current pessimism is an overreaction.  I don't think he will be a star player, but he has a role going forward.

My point on Welmer is that I don't see us investing 3 more scholarships years into him-2 at the most.  Frankly, his only motivation for staying with the program the next 2 years is the fact that he has already used up his redshirt year.  If he can stay on track to graduate in 4 years then he would be an excellent 5th year senior transfer to another D1 school where he would not lose a year of playing.

My concerns about him are that he is often not getting many minutes of playing time even now with this miserable group of bigs.  How much will he contribute next year when Foreman and French (and possibly Bess at the 4) are eating up most of the 4/5 minutes.  Then the next year, which would be Welmer's Jr. year, it would be even more difficult, if not impossible to get minutes with Gordan coming on board. 

Lots of talk on here about needing EW to pull the opponent's defenders out of the paint.  I see Henriquez and (after Dec) Graves as being the players to do that.  Remember if EW is in the game next year then either Foreman or French is probably not.  Again, if he wants to stay that's fine, but lets not look at him as a player that's going to make us much better-I see him next year as a role player at best.

[kshoe]

8 minutes ago, bauman said:

My point on Welmer is that I don't see us investing 3 more scholarships years into him-2 at the most.  Frankly, his only motivation for staying with the program the next 2 years is the fact that he has already used up his redshirt year.  If he can stay on track to graduate in 4 years then he would be an excellent 5th year senior transfer to another D1 school where he would not lose a year of playing.

My concerns about him are that he is often not getting many minutes of playing time even now with this miserable group of bigs.  How much will he contribute next year when Foreman and French (and possibly Bess at the 4) are eating up most of the 4/5 minutes.  Then the next year, which would be Welmer's Jr. year, it would be even more difficult, if not impossible to get minutes with Gordan coming on board. 

Lots of talk on here about needing EW to pull the opponent's defenders out of the paint.  I see Henriquez and (after Dec) Graves as being the players to do that.  Remember if EW is in the game next year then either Foreman or French is probably not.  Again, if he wants to stay that's fine, but lets not look at him as a player that's going to make us much better-I see him next year as a role player at best.

I'm not sure why somebody would be "good enough" for 2 years but you wouldn't want him for a third year when he will presumably be at his best. You said it yourself that he'd be an excellent 5th year transfer so why would we want one of those guys to go away before his senior year especially since he'd be in his 4th year with Ford and know the system well.

[brianstl]

11 hours ago, Zink said:

I really don't get the pessimism on Welmer. He has a couple of legit skills that will only be augmented by the incoming crop of talent. He's a wonderful complement to the athletes joining our ranks in the next couple of years. 

I think a big part of Welmer's issues as the season has worn on has been the minutes he has played.  He just doesn't really have the body to play more than 18 minutes or so a game and at his age I don't think we can expect him to change his body all that dramatically.  Limit his minutes, keep his legs fresh so you can exploit his shooting abilty at his height to pull bigs out and open up the lane for guys like Bess, Gordon and Thatch.

[billiken_roy]

2 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I hope Thatch has a monster year in AAU and ends up in the Rivals 150. 

I may be making this up, but wasn't Goodwin a "pretty good" recruit, then really turned the corner this last AAU cycle? Would be neat to see Thatch do something similar. 

I told this board 2 years ago Goodwin was a can't miss star in the making.  Those saying they had concerns either never really saw him play or they were an idiot.

[WestCoastBilliken]

14 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

I told this board 2 years ago Goodwin was a can't miss star in the making.  Those saying they had concerns either never really saw him play or they were an idiot.

What is your opinion of Thatch? Have you seen him play?

[RiseAndGrind]

12 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

I told this board 2 years ago Goodwin was a can't miss star in the making.  Those saying they had concerns either never really saw him play or they were an idiot.

this is true. I was thinking more on the national stage. From a purely selfish perspective, I'd like to see Thatch blow up on a national stage so that SLU gets more publicity.