Recruiting - 2018 class

[Pistol]

44 minutes ago, Zink said:

People have floated the idea of using a redshirt on someone in this class, as you note that five-man classes aren’t really ideal. I wonder if the staff is considering this with Ingvi?

I really don't see any of them as redshirt candidates, to be honest. Thatch, Gordon, and Jacobs are all unquestionably physically ready for the college game. Pearson has a skill we need right away, and despite being on the thin side, he's otherwise got more length than almost anyone on the roster and moves well for his size. And Gudmundsson will be 20 when the fall semester starts. So I really don't see one.

Honestly, I think optional first-year redshirts are becoming less common in general. I don't have the numbers to back me up on this, it's just an observation. It seems like guys are taking prep years to get them ready for the college game instead of going and sitting. Plus, 750-800 guys transfer per season now, or about 2 per D-I roster, and incoming players already know that they have 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility. While no one comes into a program assuming they'll transfer, it at least gives them the wiggle room for one transfer sit-out season and one injury season without losing eligibility.

[JMM28]

2 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Honestly, I think optional first-year redshirts are becoming less common in general. I don't have the numbers to back me up on this, it's just an observation. It seems like guys are taking prep years to get them ready for the college game instead of going and sitting. Plus, 750-800 guys transfer per season now, or about 2 per D-I roster, and incoming players already know that they have 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility. While no one comes into a program assuming they'll transfer, it at least gives them the wiggle room for one transfer sit-out season and one injury season without losing eligibility.

Agree with this all. The grad transfer rule and coaches with shorter leashes also contribute. Coaches arent going to bring in many guys on a 5 year plan because that guy would be likely to outlast the coach.

If a school like SIU was doing the redshirt big guys early program as they did back in the late 90s and early 2000s, those dudes would be transferring to P5 Tournament teams after their junior year as grad transfers. 

[RiseAndGrind]

I’m all in on Thor being the 3pt sniper we need 

[Zink]

9 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I really don't see any of them as redshirt candidates, to be honest. Thatch, Gordon, and Jacobs are all unquestionably physically ready for the college game. Pearson has a skill we need right away, and despite being on the thin side, he's otherwise got more length than almost anyone on the roster and moves well for his size. And Gudmundsson will be 20 when the fall semester starts. So I really don't see one.

Honestly, I think optional first-year redshirts are becoming less common in general. I don't have the numbers to back me up on this, it's just an observation. It seems like guys are taking prep years to get them ready for the college game instead of going and sitting. Plus, 750-800 guys transfer per season now, or about 2 per D-I roster, and incoming players already know that they have 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility. While no one comes into a program assuming they'll transfer, it at least gives them the wiggle room for one transfer sit-out season and one injury season without losing eligibility.

It’s for sure becoming less common for the reasons you state. I do wonder if there will some imitation of Villanova, though. A number of their players redshirted (for a wide variety of reasons), and college hoops isn’t quite as NFL-like in the way teams adopt the practices of successful teams, but we might see an uptick as players notice how they can have a greater impact when they are 22-23 than when they are 18-19. 

[slu72 fan]

Doesn’t a redshirt year make you susceptible  to senior transfers?

[willie]

29 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I really don't see any of them as redshirt candidates, to be honest. Thatch, Gordon, and Jacobs are all unquestionably physically ready for the college game. Pearson has a skill we need right away, and despite being on the thin side, he's otherwise got more length than almost anyone on the roster and moves well for his size. And Gudmundsson will be 20 when the fall semester starts. So I really don't see one.

Honestly, I think optional first-year redshirts are becoming less common in general. I don't have the numbers to back me up on this, it's just an observation. It seems like guys are taking prep years to get them ready for the college game instead of going and sitting. Plus, 750-800 guys transfer per season now, or about 2 per D-I roster, and incoming players already know that they have 6 years to complete 4 years of eligibility. While no one comes into a program assuming they'll transfer, it at least gives them the wiggle room for one transfer sit-out season and one injury season without losing eligibility.

Hasn't Jay Wright used the red shirt a lot? 

[slu72]

Don't see a problem w/ a 5 player FR class. As noted above transfers are gonna happen. Great if these guys all pan out and contribute mightily to the program. The odds of that happening? I'll leave that to the Wiz but would guess it's highly doubtful all five will be in a Billiken uni come year 4. For example, I don't see Gordon as a one and doner, however, if he has a really solid SO year, say like Cook just had, not hard to imagine he might want to dip his toe into the NBA pool.

[RUBillsFan]

21 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Rob Loe, Cody Ellis, Mike McCall, Tommie Liddell III, Kevin Lisch, Virgil Cobbin, Scott Highmark, H Waldman, Erwin Claggett....

...but jump shots die at SLU?!

 

3pt shooting by year...FR...SOPH...JR...SR (Career)

Rob Loe: .337 ... .351 ... .315 ... .306 (.326)

Cody Ellis: .300 ... .289 ... .381... .333 (.334)

Mike McCall: .366 ... .348 ... .402 ... .321 (.359)

Tommie Liddell III: .095 ... .451 ... .349 ... .354 (.371)

Kevin Lisch: .414 ... .409 ... .384 .. .378 (.395)

Virgil Cobbin: .422 ... .323 ... .424 ... .380 (.384)

Scott Highmark: .369 ... .379 ... .406 ... .354 (.378)

H Waldman: .458 ... .523 ... .411 ... .427 (.434) First 2 seasons at UNLV

Erwin Claggett: .330 ... .449 ... .416 ... .419 (.412)

 

First point: drawing conclusions from this random sample of players that has spans 23 years of SLU history, 6 different head coaches and who knows how many assistant coaches is pretty silly.  However, I think you can see how the perception developed.  None of the guys above peaked their senior years and I'm not going to plot them out, but I think most (all?) would show a downward trend overall.  Adding to the perception is that guys shooting abilities often seemed to be hyped up as prospects, so if they don't come in and tear up the nets they are viewed as disappointing.

Again, I think the perception is bunk, but I understand where it comes from.  I will say that I wonder if our recent coaches focus more on defense (Brad, Majerus, Crews) came at the expense of some offense.

 

 

[Zink]

58 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

 

3pt shooting by year...FR...SOPH...JR...SR (Career)

Rob Loe: .337 ... .351 ... .315 ... .306 (.326)

Cody Ellis: .300 ... .289 ... .381... .333 (.334)

Mike McCall: .366 ... .348 ... .402 ... .321 (.359)

Tommie Liddell III: .095 ... .451 ... .349 ... .354 (.371)

Kevin Lisch: .414 ... .409 ... .384 .. .378 (.395)

Virgil Cobbin: .422 ... .323 ... .424 ... .380 (.384)

Scott Highmark: .369 ... .379 ... .406 ... .354 (.378)

H Waldman: .458 ... .523 ... .411 ... .427 (.434) First 2 seasons at UNLV

Erwin Claggett: .330 ... .449 ... .416 ... .419 (.412)

 

First point: drawing conclusions from this random sample of players that has spans 23 years of SLU history, 6 different head coaches and who knows how many assistant coaches is pretty silly.  However, I think you can see how the perception developed.  None of the guys above peaked their senior years and I'm not going to plot them out, but I think most (all?) would show a downward trend overall.  Adding to the perception is that guys shooting abilities often seemed to be hyped up as prospects, so if they don't come in and tear up the nets they are viewed as disappointing.

Again, I think the perception is bunk, but I understand where it comes from.  I will say that I wonder if our recent coaches focus more on defense (Brad, Majerus, Crews) came at the expense of some offense.

 

 

I think defense-oriented coaching would play a part in the lack of shooting improvement, but probably wouldn't explain a decrease in shooting abilities (although, idk if there is strong evidence of that). Looking at 3PA's doesn't really help all that much either... In fact, as I looked at those, the strangest thing is that almost none of our recent players saw a year-by-year increase in their 3PA's. Lisch, Claggett and Waldman took more each year, which is what you'd probably expect for most players. Highmark had a pretty flat trajectory, but he, Liddell, Cobbin, and Ellis (also Mitchell) did NOT peak their senior year in terms of attempts. Only Loe and McCall did, but they were tiny upswings over their year with the second most attempts, both of which had happened when they were freshmen (note that was the year of Situation 1).

 

Perhaps the best explanation for this weird pattern of non-linear usage and improvement is that we have had a lot of instability - coaching changes (Liddell), players graduating and not being adequately replaced (McCall and Loe as seniors), and unexpected suspensions (all of the Majerus guys) thrust players into roles that the coach might not have wanted. For example, McCall and Loe went from being our 3rd and 4th perimeter scorers to 1st and 2nd, but no one really stepped into the void behind them - McBroom did help a bit, but he was a super limited player. Loe also played nearly 28mpg, and played inside more, which had to have an effect on his legs when shooting from three (his worst 3P% came in that senior year, even though it was his best year for FG% by a decent margin). If Crews/Majerus had brought in another capable player to shoulder some of that burden, we might not have shot 31.6% on the year, or gone 0-15 vs Louisville... If you look at successful, non-one-and-done programs, players tend to improve year-over-year and see their roles increase accordingly. Our program has been too topsy turvy for this to happen. Hopefully Ford can stop the boat from rocking too much moving forward.

 

[SShoe]

22 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

I’m just really glad we have another white player so that fans have someone to complain about in the memory of Kyle Cassity Jake Barnett John Manning. I would count Jolly but man did that dude deserve the razzing 

For every KC or Barnett, there is a Lisch, Highmark, Meyer, Ellis, or Loe that people loved.

[billikenfan05]

10 minutes ago, SShoe said:

For every KC or Barnett, there is a Lisch, Highmark, Meyer, Ellis, or Loe that people loved.

I guess I should have used blue font.

[SShoe]

9 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I guess I should have used blue font.

 

[johnbj14]

Anthony Mack to Miami. 

[STLsportsfan]

I know everyone hates mizzou on here but mark smith just committed there

[AGB91]

You are right on both points.

[STLsportsfan]

I know everyone hates mizzou on here but mark smith just committed there

Edit:  Not sure why this posted twice. My apologies 

Edited April 15, 2018 by STLsportsfan

[VeniceMenace]

31 minutes ago, STLsportsfan said:

I know everyone hates mizzou on here but mark smith just committed there

Edit:  Not sure why this posted twice. My apologies 

I think it means they won’t get Ramey....

[Franchise_08]

1 hour ago, STLsportsfan said:

I know everyone hates mizzou on here but mark smith just committed there

For baseball or basketball?

[VeniceMenace]

7 hours ago, Franchise_08 said:

For baseball or basketball?

Basketball.

[FromDaEastSide]

Hmmm! 🤔  3 former Illini commits/LOIs within a year. Something in that cup of coffee? 

[NextYearBill]

Mark Smith is a little ****** tool bag who knows that JGood is his daddy. He went to Mizzou because they never play SLU and JGood wouldnt get the chance to teabag him. Flash in the pan over hype tool who got a lot of attention because everyone else was already committed

[gobillsgo]

1 hour ago, NextYearBill said:

Mark Smith is a little ****** tool bag who knows that JGood is his daddy. He went to Mizzou because they never play SLU and JGood wouldnt get the chance to teabag him. Flash in the pan over hype tool who got a lot of attention because everyone else was already committed

My thoughts exactly 

[Billiken Rich]

7 hours ago, NextYearBill said:

Mark Smith is a little ****** tool bag who knows that JGood is his daddy. He went to Mizzou because they never play SLU and JGood wouldnt get the chance to teabag him. Flash in the pan over hype tool who got a lot of attention because everyone else was already committed

Tell us how you really feel. 

[Aquinas]

It will be interesting to see if Smith bounces back after he sits out a year or if he never reaches his recruiting rating.  Its interesting that he didn't go to a school with a clearer path to a starting job.  He would not likely have had a clear path here either after sitting out a year. I will be surprised if he reaches star status at Mizzou. 

[Franchise_08]

Shane Gatling to Colorado