Attendance

[cheeseman]

We can point out all kinds of items that may or may not be relevant to why attendance is the way it is - for some parking is an issue, setting up a reselling system may be one for others - by the way what happened to the program that SLU set up to let you donate tix to charity?, tix coupon idea would work for a few, cheaper tix seldom make a big difference unless you are charging outlandish amounts and that is not what is happening here. The Weber Lot idea may have some merit but without being able to have multiple ways in and out it would simply be a nightmare traffic wise. By the way, at the NM game, the SLU police had Compton blocked off heading south from Lindell after the game - if I was going to pick somebody up in the pick up lane I could not get there - some games it is blocked and others it is open - how can you count on that?

[FromDaEastSide]

In the 5 years at Chaifetz, we have played 45 Non-Conference games and averaged 6,668 with a 39-6 record. Only twice during Non-Conference has attendance been over 9,000 (BC - 2008 and SIU - 2009). This year we have averaged 6,156 which only the 2010/2011 season is lower.

[brianstl]

the difference between now and spoonball days when we averaged 17k per season is we are no where near the level of media support as spoon had. besides cusamono there is no one that could be considered a cheerleader. bernie would defend rickma, but if you notice, there was no love for saint louis university.

we are going to have to win the conference and go deep in the tourney to win over the fans without media cheerleaders.

The big reason for the difference was the lack of NFL football in town at the beginning of Spoon's run and being in a much better conference.

[brianstl]

This could be wrong, but I thought I heard they had sold over 9,000 tickets for the UNM game. The wrong weather forecast probably had the biggest impact on the crowd that actually showed up.

[wgstl]

How many kids from UCLA are from Los Angeles? How many kids from UNC are from Chapel Hill? How many kids from Duke are from Durham?

Thinking locally doesn't work and will never work for SLU.

I don't think that's the issue, I think its more of pretty good, good, and great STL players should have slu up there on their list. Im fine with having a kid equally as good from out side the state playing for us as some kid from kirkwood. Think of it this way, when beal, young, those cbc kids list goes on play games, followers all around stl go and watch them play, you have to think they would do the same at a higher level if they choose slu.

In the 5 years at Chaifetz, we have played 45 Non-Conference games and averaged 6,668 with a 39-6 record. Only twice during Non-Conference has attendance been over 9,000 (BC - 2008 and SIU - 2009). This year we have averaged 6,156 which only the 2010/2011 season is lower.

You gotta wonder if all these FSN games play any part.

[SluSignGuy]

You gotta wonder if all these FSN games play any part.

At least for my family, they do.

[bk18]

@bk18 ---

Another issue with attendance is evident in how some of the current BE7 play at two sites. For example, Nova just hosted NJIT at it's on-campus Pavillion -- a 6,500 seat multi-purpose building. I suspect that it's 1/12 game against Syracuse will be downtown at the Wells Fargo Center, home to the professional Sixers and Flyers. That seats over 21,000 for basketball (with standing room). Same goes for Georgetown, St. John's and even Seton Hall (altho they played only one game in their Walsh Gym, the rest are at the Prudential Center). They all move the big games into the pro arenas located in their respective cities. The same same opportunity would exist for us, Xavier and Butler ... altho doing so would defeat my purpose of a home court arena/advantage. Besides, I doubt St.Louis fills up 22K seat Savvis much anyway for us considering we don't get 10,400 right now. Stay at the Fetz. And selling a bigger gate on a better conference --- I can't see St. Louis getting hyped because Nova or Providence or the Hall is coming to town. I can see a local bounce for schools like Mo State, SIU and Bradley although the bounce would be relatively insignificant in the long run. Besides, who wants the enemy infiltrating the home confines --- I've been to Camden Yards when the Yankess and Sox come to town. It's NY/NE South.

If things go well for us, perhaps Mizzou would be more open to playing us in non-conference play and we can play at Scott Trade (or as you call it Savvis) Center for a home OR neutral game. If Mizzou won't play, hell let's do U of I until Mizzou wants to. I realize this is an uphill battle, but I think we are making progress to getting to the point where they simply can't turn down the opportunity.

[Taj79]

@bk -- no argument ... just can't see either team doing it when they already come to town for the Braggin' Rights game. And any doubleheader with us and a fourth team would acknowledge us being second-class citizens in our own backyard. Having said that, a rotational aspect is also likely doomed ----- I sense Mizzou disdains Missouri State and/or any other state wannabee program just like us and Illinois won't likely open the door to other Illinois teams per the same logic. They have nothing to gain playing any one in Illinois .... and likely harbor Mizzou-like feelings when they replace Mizzou and DePaul replaces us. Plus, DePaul is nowhere near the DePaul of old.

This argument will go on forever with no resolution, I'm afraid.

[Quality Is Job 1]

If things go well for us, perhaps Mizzou would be more open to playing us in non-conference play and we can play at Scott Trade (or as you call it Savvis) Center for a home OR neutral game. If Mizzou won't play, hell let's do U of I until Mizzou wants to. I realize this is an uphill battle, but I think we are making progress to getting to the point where they simply can't turn down the opportunity.

I really don't think SLU needs to or really would benefit from playing either Missouri or Illinois -- particularly at Scottrade -- aside from an attendance boost, unless it's a prime-time ESPN game. Each of those schools has more of a following in the St. Louis area than SLU, and if the Bills were to lose, the sentiment around here would be, "See they aren't on that level; they'll never be on that level." And if the Bills were to win, the sentiment would be, "Well, it's their 'Super Bowl' and 'we' just don't get up to play them; let's not play that game anymore."

I'd rather the Bills play Memphis than MIzzou or Illinois.

[Billiken Rich]

Season tickets can be bought for as cheap as $180. That's less than $10 a game. Inflation adjusted it's probably in the ballpark of your $50 tickets from the 80s.

[bk18]

I really don't think SLU needs to or really would benefit from playing either Missouri or Illinois -- particularly at Scottrade -- aside from an attendance boost, unless it's a prime-time ESPN game. Each of those schools has more of a following in the St. Louis area than SLU, and if the Bills were to lose, the sentiment around here would be, "See they aren't on that level; they'll never be on that level." And if the Bills were to win, the sentiment would be, "Well, it's their 'Super Bowl' and 'we' just don't get up to play them; let's not play that game anymore."

I'd rather the Bills play Memphis than MIzzou or Illinois.

Marquette's biggest rival is Wisconsin. Both are usually top 25 teams and located 90 minutes apart.

I don't see it happening in the next few years but if we can get to the point of selling out Chaifetz for almost all games, it would be nice to use Scott Trade for a high profile game that we know we could sell out.

[billikenfan05]

Marquette's biggest rival is Wisconsin. Both are usually top 25 teams and located 90 minutes apart.

I don't see it happening in the next few years but if we can get to the point of selling out Chaifetz for almost all games, it would be nice to use Scott Trade for a high profile game that we know we could sell out.

just stop.

[billiken_roy]

Marquette's biggest rival is Wisconsin. Both are usually top 25 teams and located 90 minutes apart.

I don't see it happening in the next few years but if we can get to the point of selling out Chaifetz for almost all games, it would be nice to use Scott Trade for a high profile game that we know we could sell out.

my problem with not playing that game at chaifetz is we would be completely catering to the non booster who only wants to see that game. in all likelihood we split the arena with the opponents fans and the home court advantage we deserve just went down the street from chaifetz.

you dont see duke moving their home games out of dinky cameron to play at the pnc arena only about 20 miles away.

[Clock_Tower]

Attendance, unfortunately, is dependent upon winning and tradition and SLU has not been good, in this respect, for years. If student attendance has been poor for the last 50 years, then why is it surprising that SLU alums are slow to attend games. Roy, you have mentioned that students totalled 5 to 10 per game in your day. When I walked the campus from 1989 to 1993, SLU was changing but still largely a commuter schools with very little interest from the locals. My point: these local students are now the alums who CONTINUE to not come to games.

The good news is that student attendance has increased dramatically since the opening of Chaifetz. Also, the quality of the team has increased as well. With continued wins, attendance will increase.

Finally, while I am grateful for RM and all his efforts, and while I certainly understand his frustration with Fr. Biondi, the fact remains that we have not had a head coach conducting a regular radio or TV show in years. IMO, RM made a huge splash and did alot of interviews upon being hired. Thereafter, he deflected the limelight until he could rebuild things. His last two (2), he himself was visible and did alot of intereviews but the marketing of the team and the athletic department was substandard. I understand that St. Louis is a much bigger city than Omaha and Dayton whose local news channels and newspapers lead with coverage of their college team (whereas we lead with coverage of the Cardinals, Rams and Blues) but still, SLU has got to find a way to get better and improved coverage.

[kappy96]

Attendance numbers (at home thus far) for schools vying to join the BE7Creighton 16,572Dayton 12,216Xavier 9,678VCU 7,693Butler 6,972SLU 6,156

As it pertains to the new conference (or any conference looking for a tv rights deal) butts in seats don't matter as much as size of tv market, household reach and market share.

[majerus mojo]

If things go well for us, perhaps Mizzou would be more open to playing us in non-conference play and we can play at Scott Trade (or as you call it Savvis) Center for a home OR neutral game. If Mizzou won't play, hell let's do U of I until Mizzou wants to. I realize this is an uphill battle, but I think we are making progress to getting to the point where they simply can't turn down the opportunity.

I really don't think SLU needs to or really would benefit from playing either Missouri or Illinois -- particularly at Scottrade -- aside from an attendance boost, unless it's a prime-time ESPN game. Each of those schools has more of a following in the St. Louis area than SLU, and if the Bills were to lose, the sentiment around here would be, "See they aren't on that level; they'll never be on that level." And if the Bills were to win, the sentiment would be, "Well, it's their 'Super Bowl' and 'we' just don't get up to play them; let's not play that game anymore."

I'd rather the Bills play Memphis than MIzzou or Illinois.

Couldn't disagree more. Memphis? A match-up vs. Mizzou or Illinois would be great for St. Louis. Tons of fun for both fan bases. Someones going to be upset if they use, usually that's how it works.

[slu72]

Attendance numbers (at home thus far) for schools vying to join the BE7

Creighton 16,572

Dayton 12,216

Xavier 9,678

VCU 7,693

Butler 6,972

SLU 6,156

The larger the market, the smaller the attendance. It's almost like there are other things to do in bigger cities than go to a college basketball game.

I'd say there's a lot of truth in this statement. I lived in Ohio for a number of years, and DU used to pull in more fans than OSU for a lot of those years. Until OSU started winning again, and they got a new arena. But still there were other things to do in Columbus other than go to a Buckeye game. There's nothing else to do in Dayton. Also, if you ever watch a DU game on TV note how many local merchants/businesses include the Flyer theme in their commercials. DU basketball is the the place to be seen in Dayton during the drab gray winter months. Don't know much about Omaha, but am figuring it's pretty much the same deal. Evansville used to be like that as well. I can remember when we played them back in the 70s, substitute purple sweaters for red sweater vests and they're just like UD fans. Both Creighton and UD are rallying points for small mid sized mid western cities. St. Louis had two periods of bb craziness back in the late 40s thru the late 50s. Then it fizzled out until Spoon showed up. Sadly, we didn't capitalize on that growth spurt and we're still paying for it today in terms of dismal attendance.

[JMM28]

There's nothing else to do in Dayton. Also, if you ever watch a DU game on TV note how many local merchants/businesses include the Flyer theme in their commercials. DU basketball is the the place to be seen in Dayton during the drab gray winter months. Don't know much about Omaha, but am figuring it's pretty much the same deal. Evansville used to be like that as well. I can remember when we played them back in the 70s, substitute purple sweaters for red sweater vests and they're just like UD fans. Both Creighton and UD are rallying points for small mid sized mid western cities. St. Louis had two periods of bb craziness back in the late 40s thru the late 50s. Then it fizzled out until Spoon showed up. Sadly, we didn't capitalize on that growth spurt and we're still paying for it today in terms of dismal attendance.

I always laugh at these types of comments. There are plenty of other things to do in Dayton, Omaha, and smaller big cities. Their programs have done a good job of getting people into the mindset that there is nothing above Dayton/Creighton/etc. basketball through strong play, good relationship building, good marketing, and a strong value for their entertainment dollar.

What exactly is going on in St. Louis that isn't happening in Omaha or Dayton during college basketball season?

[RiseAndGrind]

There's nothing else to do in Dayton. Also, if you ever watch a DU game on TV note how many local merchants/businesses include the Flyer theme in their commercials. DU basketball is the the place to be seen in Dayton during the drab gray winter months. Don't know much about Omaha, but am figuring it's pretty much the same deal. Evansville used to be like that as well. I can remember when we played them back in the 70s, substitute purple sweaters for red sweater vests and they're just like UD fans. Both Creighton and UD are rallying points for small mid sized mid western cities. St. Louis had two periods of bb craziness back in the late 40s thru the late 50s. Then it fizzled out until Spoon showed up. Sadly, we didn't capitalize on that growth spurt and we're still paying for it today in terms of dismal attendance.

I always laugh at these types of comments. There are plenty of other things to do in Dayton, Omaha, and smaller big cities. Their programs have done a good job of getting people into the mindset that there is nothing above Dayton/Creighton/etc. basketball through strong play, good relationship building, good marketing, and a strong value for their entertainment dollar.

What exactly is going on in St. Louis that isn't happening in Omaha or Dayton during college basketball season?

For one - there are 3 different pro teams to split entertainment $

[billiken_roy]

There's nothing else to do in Dayton. Also, if you ever watch a DU game on TV note how many local merchants/businesses include the Flyer theme in their commercials. DU basketball is the the place to be seen in Dayton during the drab gray winter months. Don't know much about Omaha, but am figuring it's pretty much the same deal. Evansville used to be like that as well. I can remember when we played them back in the 70s, substitute purple sweaters for red sweater vests and they're just like UD fans. Both Creighton and UD are rallying points for small mid sized mid western cities. St. Louis had two periods of bb craziness back in the late 40s thru the late 50s. Then it fizzled out until Spoon showed up. Sadly, we didn't capitalize on that growth spurt and we're still paying for it today in terms of dismal attendance.

I always laugh at these types of comments. There are plenty of other things to do in Dayton, Omaha, and smaller big cities. Their programs have done a good job of getting people into the mindset that there is nothing above Dayton/Creighton/etc. basketball through strong play, good relationship building, good marketing, and a strong value for their entertainment dollar.

What exactly is going on in St. Louis that isn't happening in Omaha or Dayton during college basketball season?

we do have a great zoo and crown candy store is awesome.

seriously, while us hardcores are all about the best team and the best players regardless, i asked around again this morning at the health club i belong to a number of known sports fanatics that i know are not any more than a casual billiken fan, and they all again brought up the no local players angle.

again, i would never endorse just giving scholarships to locals just to fill spots but when we have the opportunities to recruit the better true d1 players, we need to make the extra effort to show them the love.

granted the big boys like duke dont worry about getting the best players out of durham. but we arent at the level of a duke yet. so until we are, we need to do the little things to turn on the fans to incent season ticket purchases. once a fan gets the billikens in their blood, the lions share of them will be hooked and off we go.

so to fix the problem, imo we have to attack on a number of fronts with a number of steps:

1. coaching staff has to build and be award of a local pipeline and try to mine the best worthy local players whenever possible.

2. a full time attack on the local media smoozing and and initiating availability trying to maximize our exposure on local tv, radio and newspaper.

3. sell the students. the students are our future season ticket holders and boosters. hook them and then offer unique graduate ticket packages whenever possible to get them to take season tickets down the road.

4. continue to market the groupon and group sale packages for the lesser games.

5. hire a dynamic coach that is a salesman extraordinaire that is always an ambassador for all things saint louis university and especially the billikens.

6. upgrade the quality of the nonconference schedule

what else to add to the list? let's do the job for the school and give them the list they need.

[Cowboy]

Attendance numbers (at home thus far) for schools vying to join the BE7Creighton 16,572Dayton 12,216Xavier 9,678VCU 7,693Butler 6,972SLU 6,156

As it pertains to the new conference (or any conference looking for a tv rights deal) butts in seats don't matter as much as size of tv market, household reach and market share.

-I couldn't disagree more as butts in the seats equals revenue and more butts in the seats equals more revenue that can be spent to fund the proram and the more successful the program (see Butler) the more desirable to a new conference

-I am not saying Butler got to two final fours because of money but it sure can help if spent wisely and if those looking at forming a new conference are looking at commitment to the program

[BeBrave]

Marquette's biggest rival is Wisconsin. Both are usually top 25 teams and located 90 minutes apart.

I don't see it happening in the next few years but if we can get to the point of selling out Chaifetz for almost all games, it would be nice to use Scott Trade for a high profile game that we know we could sell out.

my problem with not playing that game at chaifetz is we would be completely catering to the non booster who only wants to see that game. in all likelihood we split the arena with the opponents fans and the home court advantage we deserve just went down the street from chaifetz.

you dont see duke moving their home games out of dinky cameron to play at the pnc arena only about 20 miles away.

+1

If you can get in Chaifetz, do it.

But if you can't, would you rather another EIU and SIU-E December or a big boy date downtown?

[Clock_Tower]

There's nothing else to do in Dayton. Also, if you ever watch a DU game on TV note how many local merchants/businesses include the Flyer theme in their commercials. DU basketball is the the place to be seen in Dayton during the drab gray winter months. Don't know much about Omaha, but am figuring it's pretty much the same deal. Evansville used to be like that as well. I can remember when we played them back in the 70s, substitute purple sweaters for red sweater vests and they're just like UD fans. Both Creighton and UD are rallying points for small mid sized mid western cities. St. Louis had two periods of bb craziness back in the late 40s thru the late 50s. Then it fizzled out until Spoon showed up. Sadly, we didn't capitalize on that growth spurt and we're still paying for it today in terms of dismal attendance.

I always laugh at these types of comments. There are plenty of other things to do in Dayton, Omaha, and smaller big cities. Their programs have done a good job of getting people into the mindset that there is nothing above Dayton/Creighton/etc. basketball through strong play, good relationship building, good marketing, and a strong value for their entertainment dollar.

What exactly is going on in St. Louis that isn't happening in Omaha or Dayton during college basketball season?

JMM. You don't get it. Maybe it's because you have not lived in these places. I have lived in Dayton Ohio and I know the way that town operates from the local TV channels to the local newspaper, etc. Dayton basketball (and to a lesser degree, Dayton's football team, receives the support of the local car dealers, insurance guys, restaurants, hotels, etc. Sometimes the nightly news, and always the sports segment, leads with UD basketball games. The rest of the year, there is coverage of the football team, baseball team, etc. And whenever anything "newsworthy" generally affects the university (a certain speaker comes to town, an award is given to the university, there is full coverage of it as well. The University of Dayton is the number 1 news target in Dayton, OH.

I am reminded of recent vacations to Destin, Florida where the local news channels avidly cover their "semi-pro" baseball team. Same in Dayton, OH. Coverage, for instance, of Mizzou sports is huge in Columbia, MO. Same with the Illini in Champaigne, IL. We don't have real coverage here in St. Louis in that our teams, even when good and deserving, get lost in the shuffle. Not at all unique in that DePaul gets very little coverage in Chicago, etc.

The local coverage of UD in Dayton, OH is more similar to the local coverage of Mizzou in Columbia, MO. Coverage of SLU, here in St. Louis, is just not the same. Even Mizzou and the Illini are treated with far less coverage here in St. Louis than Dayton and Creighton treat their own teams. Pro sports is number 1. Mizzou and the Illini are are distant 2. Some might think our Bills are 3 but I'd suggest that that we are ignored, forgotten and/or not even given a ranking. Instead, we fall in the "all other" category on a slow day/night.

[JMM28]

And that's because UD has done an excellent job of developing their brand and marketing the program. The news wouldn't feature them prominently if the people of Dayton did not care. So what came first? The people caring. For whatever reason.

I understand that SLU can get lost in the shuffle, but that is no excuse. Marquette goes up against NBA teams and the local Big State U, UWMilwaukee, and Big10 and does well with coverage and attendance.

Oh and I live in Peoria so I do get it. Bradley is "the only thing to do" in this little poor cow town. Yet somehow they aren't drawing worth a damn this year either.

[billiken_roy]

i have no interest in playing anyone a "home game" that is not at chaifetz