The Wiz Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The numbers to the right are the USA poll rankings. 1. Oh St 3 2. Kan 5 3. Syr 4 4. Ky 1 5. Wisc. 25 (at least they have finally listed them) 6. Mich St. 11 7. NC 8 8. Mizzou 2 9. Ind. 17 10. Duke 6 11 Baylor 7 12. Fl 13 13. Wich St. --- 14. UNLV 15 15 The Bills ---- 16. Gtown 10 17 Marq 18 18 Kan St 24 19 Fla St ---- 20 Creighton 14 21 Cal --- 22. NM --- 23 Ala. --- 24 Tex --- 25 Mem --- The Top 17 teams on this list are ranked A+ and are the "elite" as of today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Paging MB73... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Paging MB73... -his head exploded and you are a weirdo stalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrmajic Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The numbers to the right are the USA poll rankings. 1. Oh St 3 2. Kan 5 3. Syr 4 4. Ky 1 5. Wisc. 25 (at least they have finally listed them) 6. Mich St. 11 7. NC 8 8. Mizzou 2 9. Ind. 17 10. Duke 6 11 Baylor 7 12. Fl 13 13. Wich St. --- 14. UNLV 15 15 The Bills ---- 16. Gtown 10 17 Marq 18 18 Kan St 24 19 Fla St ---- 20 Creighton 14 21 Cal --- 22. NM --- 23 Ala. --- 24 Tex --- 25 Mem --- The Top 17 teams on this list are ranked A+ and are the "elite" as of today. Love what you are bringing to the board this year, Wiz. I also really respect the conviction you have regarding your computer program. I don't always agree, but I have enjoyed reading your thoughts and have definitely learned from you this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 as much as i know i am having trouble accepting what wiz is bringing us this year i think we acknowledge taj's thought about the decades of disappointment and mediocrity that we are all accustomed to for putting us in that apprehensive mindframe that wont let us accept completely what wiz is telling us. i still dont. i need to be "shown" more. but i am beginning to let the door crack open. eventually we all might throw it wide open. i dont know what that will take. probably selection sunday or maybe a week later when the tourney is down to 16 teams. but forgive me/us for taking time to digest all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrmajic Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 as much as i know i am having trouble accepting what wiz is bringing us this year i think we acknowledge taj's thought about the decades of disappointment and mediocrity that we are all accustomed to for putting us in that apprehensive mindframe that wont let us accept completely what wiz is telling us. i still dont. i need to be "shown" more. but i am beginning to let the door crack open. eventually we all might throw it wide open. i dont know what that will take. probably selection sunday or maybe a week later when the tourney is down to 16 teams. but forgive me/us for taking time to digest all this. Roy, didn't you say you'd drive the bandwagon if we won at X and UMass? You might want to start looking for the keys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Roy, didn't you say you'd drive the bandwagon if we won at X and UMass? You might want to start looking for the keys already campaigning for onjumpers. paid a fine at Rotary this morning to hype the billikens. but as mr taj has stated, saturday has all the characteristics of the classic trap game in making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 In the jargon so apparent today, we are trending up. We were medium at the start with some hesitant possible great expectations. We shot through the roof with games through Anaheim, hiccupped at Loyola Marymount, went relatively unproven in the home run in December, took a downward spiral with New Mexico, Dayton and Temple, righted the ship with Charlotte, renewed hope with Duquesne and are on an unmistakable high right now with Xavier. Keep it going and I'll designate drive while roy is slamming the Billiken Blue Kool Aid/grain alcohol combo. Saturday is a trap game. Let me say Temple after Duke. Indiana after Ohio State. Dayton after Xavier. We should win and we must win. Otherwise the questions creep back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliKat Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Come on now... We got this! Everybody said X was gonna come out hot after their UD loss, and we funked them up... Now lets do umass... line 'em up, beaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 as much as i know i am having trouble accepting what wiz is bringing us this year i think we acknowledge taj's thought about the decades of disappointment and mediocrity that we are all accustomed to for putting us in that apprehensive mindframe that wont let us accept completely what wiz is telling us. i still dont. i need to be "shown" more. but i am beginning to let the door crack open. eventually we all might throw it wide open. i dont know what that will take. probably selection sunday or maybe a week later when the tourney is down to 16 teams. but forgive me/us for taking time to digest all this. +10, roy. But keep the info coming Wiz, very informative and entertaining when your numbers are questioned. Like sands through the hourglass, these are the days of our lives ... Maybe after last night, better days are ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrmajic Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 already campaigning for onjumpers. paid a fine at Rotary this morning to hype the billikens. but as mr taj has stated, saturday has all the characteristics of the classic trap game in making. Love that you paid the fine to hype the Bills, Roy! I agree that this could be a trap game. Given that, plus the fact that UMass hasn't lost at home, and a loss by the Bills is definitely not out of the question. I said before this week that I'd take a split. However, now I'm feeling very greedy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliKat Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Love that you paid the fine to hype the Bills, Roy! I agree that this could be a trap game. Given that, plus the fact that UMass hasn't lost at home, and a loss by the Bills is definitely not out of the question. I said before this week that I'd take a split. However, now I'm feeling very greedy!agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wiz's rankings appear to be right on point, to wit, SLU's rankings after Wed., 1/25/12 games: Pomeroy: 13 Sagarin: 19 RPI: 42. What this also shows is the BCS biased nature of that RPI, which is the most important ranking, even if it is not anywhere close to the most reliable, as it is the one at least used, and in my opinion, largely followed, by the NCAA, based upon historical precedents. SLU's RPI moved up from 51 to 42 after the big road win at Xavier, whereas Xavier's RPI fell from 44 to 51. Bernie Miklasz on 101.1 just said the Billikens are today's "Good," and noted SLU's Pomeroy rating of 13. SLU can say it is the 13th ranked team in the entire country. There is much more work to do, but that is outstanding. Good job, Billikens! I am one proud alumnus this morning out here on the Left Coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wiz's rankings appear to be right on point, to wit, SLU's rankings after Wed., 1/25/12 games: Pomeroy: 13 Sagarin: 19 RPI: 42. What this also shows is the BCS biased nature of that RPI, which is the most important ranking, even if it is not anywhere close to the most reliable, as it is the one at least used, and in my opinion, largely followed, by the NCAA, based upon historical precedents. SLU's RPI moved up from 51 to 42 after the big road win at Xavier Wiz can probably answer this for sure, but I don't think the RPI bias is neccesarily for BCS. My understanding in the differences between kp/wiz and RPI is that the RPI does not factor in margin of victory. That's why we are so high with wiz and kpom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 It is true that RPI does not factor margin of victory. RPI is 25% your own won-loss record, 50% your opponents' won-loss record, and 25% your opponents' opponents' won-loss record, with the tweak in recent years in which home court wins only count .6, and road wins count 1.4. I think that 75% of the RPI based upon opponents and opponents' opponents' won-loss records is the self-perpetuation factors that favor the BCS teams, especially the latter. It is especially tough when the BCS teams won't play you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wiz's rankings appear to be right on point, to wit, SLU's rankings after Wed., 1/25/12 games: Pomeroy: 13 Sagarin: 19 RPI: 42. What this also shows is the BCS biased nature of that RPI, which is the most important ranking, even if it is not anywhere close to the most reliable, as it is the one at least used, and in my opinion, largely followed, by the NCAA, based upon historical precedents. SLU's RPI moved up from 51 to 42 after the big road win at Xavier, whereas Xavier's RPI fell from 44 to 51. Bernie Miklasz on 101.1 just said the Billikens are today's "Good," and noted SLU's Pomeroy rating of 13. SLU can say it is the 13th ranked team in the entire country. There is much more work to do, but that is outstanding. Good job, Billikens! I am one proud alumnus this morning out here on the Left Coast. BayArea, you'll get no argument from me that there is an inherent bias in the RPI towards BCS schools that can schedule a bunch of home games and compile gaudy non-conference W-L records. That being said, I wouldn't use SLU's current rankings as "proof" of that. Our rankings are what they are because we've generally won by huge margins and lost by small margins which leads to good rankings in programs that use margin of victory but lower rankings in the ones that don't. Dayton is a good case study. Their RPI is 32 but their Pomeroy rank is 56. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I wouldn't really consider UMass a trap game. They might just be a pretty good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 BayArea, you'll get no argument from me that there is an inherent bias in the RPI towards BCS schools that can schedule a bunch of home games and compile gaudy non-conference W-L records. That being said, I wouldn't use SLU's current rankings as "proof" of that. Our rankings are what they are because we've generally won by huge margins and lost by small margins which leads to good rankings in programs that use margin of victory but lower rankings in the ones that don't. Dayton is a good case study. Their RPI is 32 but their Pomeroy rank is 56. Yes, there is an argument that margin of victory should not be a factor with the theory being that it would encourage teams to run up the score. I think margin of victory should merit some measure of consideration, and it has no bearing on the RPI. Nonetheless, since SLU is better in Pomeroy, Sagarin, and The Wiz, as opposed to RPI this year, then clearly Pomeroy, Sagarin, and The Wiz are better ratings! At least this year, that is. Whatever it takes, whatever it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB2.0 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Not a trap game at all. UMass and Xavier have nearly identical RPIs plus its a road game. I wouldn't be surprised to see Umass favored. This game is as big for us as Xavier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 as much as i know i am having trouble accepting what wiz is bringing us this year i think we acknowledge taj's thought about the decades of disappointment and mediocrity that we are all accustomed to for putting us in that apprehensive mindframe that wont let us accept completely what wiz is telling us. i still dont. i need to be "shown" more. but i am beginning to let the door crack open. eventually we all might throw it wide open. i dont know what that will take. probably selection sunday or maybe a week later when the tourney is down to 16 teams. but forgive me/us for taking time to digest all this. BM today said that Kenpom had SLU #13 so do you believe two different stat guys now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 In the jargon so apparent today, we are trending up. We were medium at the start with some hesitant possible great expectations. We shot through the roof with games through Anaheim, hiccupped at Loyola Marymount, went relatively unproven in the home run in December, took a downward spiral with New Mexico, Dayton and Temple, righted the ship with Charlotte, renewed hope with Duquesne and are on an unmistakable high right now with Xavier. Keep it going and I'll designate drive while roy is slamming the Billiken Blue Kool Aid/grain alcohol combo. Saturday is a trap game. Let me say Temple after Duke. Indiana after Ohio State. Dayton after Xavier. We should win and we must win. Otherwise the questions creep back in. Every game for us is a trap game until we play more consistently - calling UMass a trap game when they are tied for 1st place in the A10 is a bit silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wiz's rankings appear to be right on point, to wit, SLU's rankings after Wed., 1/25/12 games: Pomeroy: 13 Sagarin: 19 RPI: 42. What this also shows is the BCS biased nature of that RPI, which is the most important ranking, even if it is not anywhere close to the most reliable, as it is the one at least used, and in my opinion, largely followed, by the NCAA, based upon historical precedents. SLU's RPI moved up from 51 to 42 after the big road win at Xavier, whereas Xavier's RPI fell from 44 to 51. Bernie Miklasz on 101.1 just said the Billikens are today's "Good," and noted SLU's Pomeroy rating of 13. SLU can say it is the 13th ranked team in the entire country. There is much more work to do, but that is outstanding. Good job, Billikens! I am one proud alumnus this morning out here on the Left Coast. I'm more Pi$$ed than ever that Xavier went in the tank in the nonconference following the brawl. This victory would have been even bigger for us if not them losing to the likes of Oral Roberts and Hawaii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo027 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 UMass's schedule so far has been Fordham, Charlotte, and St Joes at home, La Salle, Duquesne and Richmond on the road. SLU has had 3 conference games tougher than anything they've played so far. They were also 11-3 in non-conference but Davidson is the only halfway decent team they beat. Saturday will be their toughest game of the year, easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It was a HUGE win on the road against a quality club but we are not 13th or 15th, more like 40th, you can make a case for top 30, possibly, based on different assumptions. We have a long way to go. If we go 9-1 then we crack top 30 or so I think. The competition is stiff, BCS teams are especially hard to displace in real polls. If we lose, say, 3 of our final 10 games, being in the mid-major A-10, we lose a lot of steam. Again, there are a lot of rating agencies, based upon different mathematical models, some of which are questionable to say the least, even some of the "famous" ones. The thing is, we are in POSITION to get there... 8-2 would be nice, I'll take that right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It was a HUGE win on the road against a quality club but we are not 13th or 15th, more like 40th, you can make a case for top 30, possibly, based on different assumptions. We have a long way to go. If we go 9-1 then we crack top 30 or so I think. The competition is stiff, BCS teams are especially hard to displace in real polls. If we lose, say, 3 of our final 10 games, being in the mid-major A-10, we lose a lot of steam. Again, there are a lot of rating agencies, based upon different mathematical models, some of which are questionable to say the least, even some of the "famous" ones. The thing is, we are in POSITION to get there... 8-2 would be nice, I'll take that right now. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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