Transfers - 2023

[dennis_w]

59 minutes ago, BigMouthBilliken said:

Who would want to play for Travis Ford if they had any choice at all? The perennial average coach in an average league 

How amazing a guy who is such a bad coach that no one wants to play for can win 21 games, did he coach up lousy players or did the players win without any good coaching? how can it be both?

[BigMouthBilliken]

37 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

How amazing a guy who is such a bad coach that no one wants to play for can win 21 games, did he coach up lousy players or did the players win without any good coaching? how can it be both?

Helps the a10 objectively is a terrible league this season 

[Box and Won]

10 hours ago, dennis_w said:

How amazing a guy who is such a bad coach that no one wants to play for can win 21 games, did he coach up lousy players or did the players win without any good coaching? how can it be both?

They should've won 26 games, that's the problem.

[wgstl]

10 hours ago, dennis_w said:

How amazing a guy who is such a bad coach that no one wants to play for can win 21 games, did he coach up lousy players or did the players win without any good coaching? how can it be both?

Winning 21 games with a NAIA and the worst a10 ever is not a positive. That’s equivalent to like 18 wins in a normal a10. 

[billiken_roy]

Just now, wgstl said:

Winning 21 games with a NAIA and the worst a10 ever is not a positive. That’s equivalent to like 18 wins in a normal a10. 

actually i dont know if is even that.   there is a reason the vast majority of the fan base is on fire.   we know we literally had the team that could have almost went undefeated instead our players are about to head to spring break and spend a week watching teams a hell of a lot less talented than we were play on tv why we sit on a beach crying.  the first step to getting better is the decision makers have to admit this was a failed season and then take the major steps to turn it around, not try to convince us that it was actually a near super bowl win.  quit lying. 

[Lord Elrond]

8 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

actually i dont know if is even that.   there is a reason the vast majority of the fan base is on fire.   we know we literally had the team that could have almost went undefeated instead our players are about to head to spring break and spend a week watching teams a hell of a lot less talented than we were play on tv why we sit on a beach crying.  the first step to getting better is the decision makers have to admit this was a failed season and then take the major steps to turn it around, not try to convince us that it was actually a near super bowl win.  quit lying. 

The first step in fixing a problem is admitting you have a problem. People may disagree over how to fix a problem, but there should be no disagreement that last season was a problem.

[dennis_w]

22 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Winning 21 games with a NAIA and the worst a10 ever is not a positive. That’s equivalent to like 18 wins in a normal a10. 

but apparently they win with a terrible coach with players that dont want to play for him, that is the narrative,  interesting line of thought

 

[Slu let the dogs out?]

4 hours ago, dennis_w said:

but apparently they win with a terrible coach with players that dont want to play for him, that is the narrative,  interesting line of thought

 

It is an interesting line of thought as I haven’t read anyone (that isn’t a troll) push that narrative. No one has said Ford is a terrible coach. Or that he’s a terrible human being (I’ve met him just once and he couldn’t have been nicer). What almost everyone on here has said is that they are thankful he got us out of the Crews dark ages but that this is about as far as we’re going to get with him as coach. That opinion isn’t based on hatred it is based on a 2 decade plus track record. He’s making more money than half of the BE coaches. More money than many P5 coaches. His pay isn’t commensurate with his performance. I find it odd that an administration would pay someone so much to finish 4th in a 1-2 bid league every year and call it a success. Thank god these people aren’t running my company…

But enough of the Ford talk. Hopefully we can snag some gems in the transfer portal this summer!

[billiken_roy]

20 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

but apparently they win with a terrible coach with players that dont want to play for him, that is the narrative,  interesting line of thought

 

Dennis i understand you want to paint a literal picture of success.  21 win seasons are normally considered a success.   but unfortunately the expectations of the fan base was for a lot more wins than that and to still be playing rather than the season being over.   expectations endorsed and fed by the powers to be at Saint Louis University fired up the fan base to a level not seen before for the Billikens.  and now the defenders of the powers to be want to tell us, "pay no attention to what we told the world last fall, that obviously wasnt the case and we really meant a successful season was 20 wins.   since the Billikens actually exceeded that with 21 wins it was very successful."

well i personally dont like being patronized and gaslighted as such.  i would think you as one of us members of the Billikens Fandom would also be at minimum wanting some serious answers and action.   Notice i am not advocating in writing here fire the coach and/or athletic director, but just wanting some answers and a plan going forward.   just hoping and praying it will get better shouldnt fly.   we have been letting the powers to be get by with that for decades.   maybe it is time to be honest and even more so time to take some real action.   

It isnt our place to tell the powers to be what that action or even that honesty would consist of.   These people get a lot of money to run this program and we only supply a lot of the enthusiasm, passion and funds to make it work.  but i sure would appreciate the powers to be telling us why we should continue to be a part of the this what now seems to be more than ever an "Effort in Futility".

[dennis_w]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

Dennis i understand you want to paint a literal picture of success.  21 win seasons are normally considered a success.   but unfortunately the expectations of the fan base was for a lot more wins than that and to still be playing rather than the season being over.   expectations endorsed and fed by the powers to be at Saint Louis University fired up the fan base to a level not seen before for the Billikens.  and now the defenders of the powers to be want to tell us, "pay no attention to what we told the world last fall, that obviously wasnt the case and we really meant a successful season was 20 wins.   since the Billikens actually exceeded that with 21 wins it was very successful."

well i personally dont like being patronized and gaslighted as such.  i would think you as one of us members of the Billikens Fandom would also be at minimum wanting some serious answers and action.   Notice i am not advocating in writing here fire the coach and/or athletic director, but just wanting some answers and a plan going forward.   just hoping and praying it will get better shouldnt fly.   we have been letting the powers to be get by with that for decades.   maybe it is time to be honest and even more so time to take some real action.   

It isnt our place to tell the powers to be what that action or even that honesty would consist of.   These people get a lot of money to run this program and we only supply a lot of the enthusiasm, passion and funds to make it work.  but i sure would appreciate the powers to be telling us why we should continue to be a part of the this what now seems to be more than ever an "Effort in Futility".

my point roy was in response that players will only come to slu if they have no other choice and ford cant coach, if you want to say 21 wins is not enough so be it. but to say ford cant coach and the players dont want to play for him and you still win 21 doesnt make sense. either ford coached up the players that didnt want to play or the players  played above the level of coaching, how can you have it both ways, bad coaching and disgruntled players dont add up to top tier of the conference. pick one. i would have liked more wins, but lets be honest in our criticisms i dont think both positions  can be true

[RamJAMTIME]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

actually i dont know if is even that.   there is a reason the vast majority of the fan base is on fire.   we know we literally had the team that could have almost went undefeated instead our players are about to head to spring break and spend a week watching teams a hell of a lot less talented than we were play on tv why we sit on a beach crying.

In that 17 games stretch where SLU was favored, the team went 11-6.

[dlarry]

Can we stop using 20 wins as a bench mark of a successful season?

116 teams won 20 games this year and some of them are pretty bad. 

[wgstl]

1 hour ago, dennis_w said:

but apparently they win with a terrible coach with players that dont want to play for him, that is the narrative,  interesting line of thought

 

Not answering that part, I'm strictly saying 21 wins this year with a NAIA team being of those and the weakest conf has been is far from a positive. 

[billiken_roy]

27 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

my point roy was in response that players will only come to slu if they have no other choice and ford cant coach, if you want to say 21 wins is not enough so be it. but to say ford cant coach and the players dont want to play for him and you still win 21 doesnt make sense. either ford coached up the players that didnt want to play or the players  played above the level of coaching, how can you have it both ways, bad coaching and disgruntled players dont add up to top tier of the conference. pick one. i would have liked more wins, but lets be honest in our criticisms i dont think both positions  can be true

his coaching ability evaluation shouldnt be black or white.   however there also shouldnt be a discussion if the question is underachieving or not.   well unless the powers to be lied to us last fall.  based on the now revealed lies and excuses for the results, imo this team far far underachieved.   somebody should be held accountable.   but apparently we are expected to accept the status quo if they are convinced it isnt the coach or athletic departments fault, that's fine as long as steps are being taken and shown to the fandom of the action to correct the fail.    if saint louis university wants our continued support, then show us the changes that will fix the fail.  

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, dlarry said:

Can we stop using 20 wins as a bench mark of a successful season?

116 teams won 20 games this year and some of them are pretty bad. 

#23isthenew20

[billiken_roy]

23 minutes ago, RamJAMTIME said:

In that 17 games stretch where SLU was favored, the team went 11-6.

ram are you saying that 11-6 is good?   if our 6 losses were to the denver nuggets, the boston celtics, the philadelphia 76ers, the dallas mavericks, the new york knicks and the memphis grizzlies, i guess the six losses arent that bad.   but the truth is there are some bad losses in those 6 losses.   

[dlarry]

1 minute ago, wgstl said:

#23isthenew20

That’s better but could still be misleading. 

So we add wins vs SIUE and UMASS to get our 23?

Im still not impressed. I’m more concerned about the quality of wins than the number. 

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, dlarry said:

That’s better but could still be misleading. 

So we add wins vs SIUE and UMASS to get our 23?

Im still not impressed. I’m more concerned about the quality of wins than the number. 

23 is the bench mark for a good season, not a bench mark for at large.  24 wins this year would have gotten us at the very least at large talks. I can settle for years where we hit 23 wins, miss all talks but be excited still.  Thats why I picked 23. 

[dennis_w]

7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

his coaching ability evaluation shouldnt be black or white.   however there also shouldnt be a discussion if the question is underachieving or not.   well unless the powers to be lied to us last fall.  based on the now revealed lies and excuses for the results, imo this team far far underachieved.   somebody should be held accountable.   but apparently we are expected to accept the status quo if they are convinced it isnt the coach or athletic departments fault, that's fine as long as steps are being taken and shown to the fandom of the action to correct the fail.    if saint louis university wants our continued support, then show us the changes that will fix the fail.  

i obviously didnt make my point

[johnbj14]

5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

his coaching ability evaluation shouldnt be black or white.   however there also shouldnt be a discussion if the question is underachieving or not.   well unless the powers to be lied to us last fall.  based on the now revealed lies and excuses for the results, imo this team far far underachieved.   somebody should be held accountable.   but apparently we are expected to accept the status quo if they are convinced it isnt the coach or athletic departments fault, that's fine as long as steps are being taken and shown to the fandom of the action to correct the fail.    if saint louis university wants our continued support, then show us the changes that will fix the fail.  

First sentence is spot on. Travis does some things well and some things poorly as a coach. He’s not truly a bad coach, but not a great one either. My suspicion is the AD does know that last season was a disappointment, but the only times they really admit that publicly is when they make a coaching change. If the university thinks he is the best choice right now, whether it be due to lack of funds for a buyout, or legitimate belief he is the man going forward, the point remains that something has to be done differently. I have no real doubts Travis can cobble together a group that wins 20 games every year. In today’s landscape though, it’s about getting to 25. I hope that something differently will be done, whether through roster construction or (less likely) a staff shakeup. 

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, johnbj14 said:

First sentence is spot on. Travis does some things well and some things poorly as a coach. He’s not truly a bad coach, but not a great one either

For 1m and no aspirations for the BE, I'd be ok with Ford. If we were Davidson, Joeys, Bonnies, GW I'd say everything's ok. 

[johnbj14]

11 minutes ago, wgstl said:

For 1m and no aspirations for the BE, I'd be ok with Ford. If we were Davidson, Joeys, Bonnies, GW I'd say everything's ok. 

Yeah, the financial commitments and public expectations that have come from the department are the reasons I’m personally of the belief we can do better. 

[Billikenbooster]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

actually i dont know if is even that.   there is a reason the vast majority of the fan base is on fire.   we know we literally had the team that could have almost went undefeated instead our players are about to head to spring break and spend a week watching teams a hell of a lot less talented than we were play on tv why we sit on a beach crying.  the first step to getting better is the decision makers have to admit this was a failed season and then take the major steps to turn it around, not try to convince us that it was actually a near super bowl win.  quit lying. 

Roy

I agree there was a problem with approach by the staff. But no small part of it was players under performing.
Very inconsistent, variable FT percentages from game to game. 

Okoro regularly fouling the same way early each game.

Yuri driving late in games getting blocked. Last year many ‘tear drop’ shots, this year not so much.

I give Perkins a pass, Pickett was banged up, too, at times

These guys played like they either dont know how to set a pick, or use one. Is that the players or the staff?

[billiken_roy]

6 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

Roy

I agree there was a problem with approach by the staff. But no small part of it was players under performing.
Very inconsistent, variable FT percentages from game to game. 

Okoro regularly fouling the same way early each game.

Yuri driving late in games getting blocked. Last year many ‘tear drop’ shots, this year not so much.

I give Perkins a pass, Pickett was banged up, too, at times

These guys played like they either dont know how to set a pick, or use one. Is that the players or the staff?

booster, isnt a coaching staff supposed to be able to make these go away after the mistakes/underperformed task we did?

[wgstl]

7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

booster, isnt a coaching staff supposed to be able to make these go away after the mistakes/underperformed task we did?

This is what I don't understand. Yuri hero ball is been thrown around a lot as to why the season went wrong.  Why didn't Ford pull Yuri then, or get him to stop?  That's his job by definition.