Billiken Victory Fund

[dennis_w]

i am doubtful troy is going to go against a strong recommendation from the coach or that the coach is going to take a player just because troy wants him

[Billiken Rich]

1 minute ago, dennis_w said:

i am doubtful troy is going to go against a strong recommendation from the coach or that the coach is going to take a player just because troy wants him

I don't see this as a problem here but man I'd hate to coach Kentucky or any other school with a bunch of crazy egos and extremely deep pockets. 

[DOC]

11 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

i am doubtful troy is going to go against a strong recommendation from the coach or that the coach is going to take a player just because troy wants him

I agree with that, except Troy has been clear in his communications that the committee would operate within the rules and Coach would have nothing to do with it. He said he hasn’t spoken to Ford about it yet. 

[TheA_Bomb]

1 hour ago, courtside said:

Don't you live in Texas?

The Dallas Cowboys have multiple "rivals" over the years in their Division, with teams from the Northeast. It's because they had repeated competitive play over time.

The St. Louis Cardinals football and baseball both played in a predominantly Northeast Division where rivals were based on repeated competitive play over time vs geography. The Cardinals of course had tons more success than the Cubs, but all time record head to head is very close. That has more to do with the rivalry than geography. As stated, geography can enhance a rivalry. But it doesn't make a rivalry by itself. St. Louis and KC were not NFL rivals because they didn't play each other often. Preseason game only.

The hockey rivals of the St. Louis Blues have evolved past Chicago. For a while Detroit was one. And it of course has changed some again with realignment and expansion and teams thst wouldn't have beeb considered past rivals.

Syrcause and Georgetown had repeated competitive play over time and were rivals. They played this year but they of course play less often and it isn't the same.

Pittsburgh even had rivals when it was in the Big East and good. Creighton has developed some now that they didn't have before and so on.

 

 

I live in Bogota my favorite team Millionarios FC biggest rival is Santa Fe FC they play in the same stadium.   I mean rivals like you can't walk by the Santa Fe corner of the stadium at a classico wearing blue without getting stabbed.

 

Agree with you for pro sports but not for College.  There are very few good or not so good rivalries between schools that aren't geographically close.

[billiken_roy]

54 minutes ago, DOC said:

The interesting aspect to this is that if Ford wants to keep Yuri, but Troy doesn’t, then he’s gone. The committee is in charge of recruiting and retention. 

I never even thought about that possible offshoot.   Very unofficially possible.   Oh brother.

[Billikenbooster]

Do we know exactly who is ‘the committee’ besides Troy? Im sure Scott H. 
Who chooses the committee?

Where do they get their data/info? (Blue font….Do they check in with Pistol????)

How can they possibly function without some input/conversation with the coaching/tecruiting staff.

[almaman]

1 hour ago, Billiken Rich said:

He'd probably prefer we went after Jack Murphy (bed,) associate head coach at Arizona.......

 

(Yeah I'm probably out of ideas here)

good job I was working on the MB angle but read this & did a 180

[DOC]

12 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

Do we know exactly who is ‘the committee’ besides Troy? Im sure Scott H. 
Who chooses the committee?

Where do they get their data/info? (Blue font….Do they check in with Pistol????)

How can they possibly function without some input/conversation with the coaching/tecruiting staff.

The list is out, it includes Highmark and Joe Wiley. I didn’t recognize the other names. 
 

[Lord Elrond]

59 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

I don't see this as a problem here but man I'd hate to coach Kentucky or any other school with a bunch of crazy egos and extremely deep pockets. 

Exactly. I don’t see issues here, but based on the way some football and basketball programs and boosters behave today, this could get wild and crazy.

[willie]

56 minutes ago, DOC said:

I agree with that, except Troy has been clear in his communications that the committee would operate within the rules and Coach would have nothing to do with it. He said he hasn’t spoken to Ford about it yet. 

If you really believe this I have some Enron stock I would like to sell you. 

[Soderball]

facts are that this committee will be run with serious informal input from the athletic department, like at every other school.

This is a necessity in the world NCAA sports are operating in now. This is pro sports, anyone on a moral horse at this point needs to mosey over to the Eutectics. No money changing hands there.

[billikenbill]

34 minutes ago, DOC said:

The list is out, it includes Highmark and Joe Wiley. I didn’t recognize the other names. 
 

One is a former women’s team member and the other two are attorneys.

[DOC]

4 minutes ago, willie said:

If you really believe this I have some Enron stock I would like to sell you. 

Ya, there has to be some communication or it simply doesn’t work. So why did Troy make a point of saying it, then repeating it? There is some truth to what he’s saying. You still holding Enron?

[billikenbill]

52 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

Do we know exactly who is ‘the committee’ besides Troy? Im sure Scott H. 
Who chooses the committee?

Where do they get their data/info? (Blue font….Do they check in with Pistol????)

How can they possibly function without some input/conversation with the coaching/tecruiting staff.

The committee chose themselves. It’s their baby.

[Soderball]

1 minute ago, DOC said:

Ya, there has to be some communication or it simply doesn’t work. So why did Troy make a point of saying it, then repeating it? There is some truth to what he’s saying. You still holding Enron?

because it would violate the NIL rules otherwise and saying anything but that could result in SPUMAC-style shenanigans.

[Lord Elrond]

19 minutes ago, Soderball said:

because it would violate the NIL rules otherwise and saying anything but that could result in SPUMAC-style shenanigans.

Exactly. Everyone has to deal with the NCAA rules and state laws that various states have passed on this. I’m sure there is some informal conversation that will go on, but ask them formally in a situation where their words can be recorded and written down, then don’t expect people to say anything that does not conform to the rules.

[DOC]

20 minutes ago, Soderball said:

facts are that this committee will be run with serious informal input from the athletic department, like at every other school.

This is a necessity in the world NCAA sports are operating in now. This is pro sports, anyone on a moral horse at this point needs to mosey over to the Eutectics. No money changing hands there.

There are no hard facts about how schools are dealing with NIL yet, except the fact that they’re not all doing it the same way. 

[courtside]

24 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I live in Bogota my favorite team Millionarios FC biggest rival is Santa Fe FC they play in the same stadium.   I mean rivals like you can't walk by the Santa Fe corner of the stadium at a classico wearing blue without getting stabbed.

 

Agree with you for pro sports but not for College.  There are very few good or not so good rivalries between schools that aren't geographically close.

It doesn’t work any differently for college than pro. Conferences historically have been more aligned based on geography in college. That doesn’t mean geography makes it a rivalry.

SLU and UAB were once short lived NCAA Tourney bound league rivals. (Free Gene Bartow) Some SLU fans will think of Charlotte quicker and more often because that lasted a decade. 

DePaul and Loyola Chicago are not rivals. However they once were many decades ago. This is because of repeated competitive play over time. DePaul hasn’t had much rivalry with anyone in recent memory because they haven’t been winning games. Georgetown too. 

UConn and Tennessee Women’s basketball have been rivals based on repeated competitive play over time. That comes first. If two nearby times either don’t play or if one wins almost every time, it isn’t much of a rivalry. The challenge for SLU is not having consistently great teams over time historically. 

Some rivalries are short lived. Some last a long time. Some aren’t rivalries at all. But the reason for them doesn’t change.

Also, a team frequently on the losing end of head to head matchups, are much more likely to say this or that team is their rival. Example: SLU and their frequent historical opponents.

SLU came up short often vs UC and Louisville. Dayton has been a bit more competitive for SLU, and, obviously more recent than just the past. And Dayton extends to other sports too. 

SLU has played Tulsa well more than 50 times since 1950. SLU has won most. Few would consider Tulsa a rival since SLU doesn’t play them as often, and, SLU won most. Some might mention Xavier especially in the 80’s, but those results were pretty lopsided to Xavier’s  advantage. 

SLU and Indiana have been said to have a little bit of a rivalry in Men’s Soccer. But that really isn’t about geography. 

Texas and Texas A&M will become more of a rivalry again because they will be in the same league playing regularly likely with competitive games. And let’s take a look at that one a second:

It really wasn’t much of a rivalry until Texas A&M started winning games. The all time record is 76-37-5 for Texas. However, since and including 1975 to present:

Texas A&M 19 wins.

Texas 18 wins.

Repeated competitive play over time sounds like a rivalry since 1975. But it’s lost its luster because it hasn’t been played in more than a decade. 

 

[willie]

2 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Exactly. Everyone has to deal with the NCAA rules and state laws that various states have passed on this. I’m sure there is some informal conversation that will go on, but ask them formally in a situation where their words can be recorded and written down, then don’t expect people to say anything that does not conform to the rules.

It is naive to think this group is going to be given a bunch of money to spend anyway they want without imput  from the coaching staff. We all know  NCAA rules are vague  and toothless. 

[JMM28]

12 minutes ago, willie said:

It is naive to think this group is going to be given a bunch of money to spend anyway they want without imput  from the coaching staff. We all know  NCAA rules are vague  and toothless. 

The hard part is that there are very few NCAA rules on this. The law varies state by state. 

But as others have said - if the collective is paying these guys and they don't see them as worthwhile investments it is back to the drawing board for a coach. The odds of that happening are slim, but it will happen. 

[DOC]

22 minutes ago, willie said:

It is naive to think this group is going to be given a bunch of money to spend anyway they want without imput  from the coaching staff. We all know  NCAA rules are vague  and toothless. 

I agree, especially when it comes to recruits. When it comes to paying  current players I expect some serious disagreements between the two. Then what?

[Lord Elrond]

14 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

The hard part is that there are very few NCAA rules on this. The law varies state by state. 

But as others have said - if the collective is paying these guys and they don't see them as worthwhile investments it is back to the drawing board for a coach. The odds of that happening are slim, but it will happen. 

Here’s what the NCAA is enforcing (or says it will enforce anyway) in a memo put out to all schools quoted on the on3.com website:

In October 2022, at the recommendation of the NIL Working Group, the Division I Board approved and released a new set of clarifications for member schools about how existing NCAA rules – recruiting, tampering, etc. – were impacted by the NIL interim policy, laying out in some detail what is and is not allowed.

The Board adopted a new rule for enforcement in cases that involve NIL, which took effect Jan. 1:

“19.7.3 Violations Presumed in Select Cases. In cases involving name, image and likeness offers, agreements and/or activities in which related communications and conduct are subject to NCAA regulation, the infractions process (including interpretive requests) shall presume a violation occurred if circumstantial information suggests that one or more parties engaged in impermissible conduct.

“The enforcement staff may make a formal allegation based on the presumption. The hearing panel shall conclude a violation occurred unless the institution or involved individual clearly demonstrates with credible and sufficient information that all communications and conduct surrounding the name, image and likeness activity complied with NCAA legislation.”
 

Believe what you want to about the NCAA’s ability to enforce this (I have substantial doubts myself based on previous NCAA enforcement). But one thing I get from this is that all the public statements, interviews with the media, emails, other written communication, etc.. will all be sanitized to the point of being bland and emphasizing how much the NIL collective is following the rules always. Don’t expect them to ever even hint otherwise, what’s the upside in that?

Now, what happens between them and the school off any potential record or way to record what’s being said might be another matter.  Yes I do expect that some communication between the Coach and the NIL will occur, I just don’t think we’ll ever hear it first person from them, or see it in print, not at SLU.  I can certainly see how some programs with some out of control boosters might not be on the same page and let that spill over in public, and I expect to be highly amused by it. 
 

[White Pelican]

"Circumstantial information"??  Yeah, like the old joke goes, the NCAA was so mad at Kansas that they put Cleveland State on probation for two years.

I can't wait to see how this sh!tshow plays out.

[BC1764]

3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i am not contributing to something that i believe is fundamentally corrupt, is an effort in futility as the big schools will blow our likely pittance out of the water, and will likely lead to the ncaa splitting division one into D1 and D1a due to the wide gap in competition i believe this pos program will lead to.  

i understand there is a belief we have to try to compete in it, but count me out.  my money will be much better served contributing to Shriner's Children Hospital general fund. 

So don’t complain when the program doesn’t live up to expectations (again).

[Lord Elrond]

17 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

"Circumstantial information"??  Yeah, like the old joke goes, the NCAA was so mad at Kansas that they put Cleveland State on probation for two years.

I can't wait to see how this sh!tshow plays out.

Exactly!!! I’ll believe that they will put penalties on a major school based on circumstantial evidence alone when I see it, not before.  I DO think they are looking for a mid-major or lower school to slip up and make an example of. I see no upside in SLU or the NIL pushing the edge of the envelope, they would love to lower the boom on someone and an A10 school fits what they need in a scapegoat.