GDT: Dayton was a top 5 team and still missed the tourney

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

36 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Same My guess is the team is split between 2 groups: those that think Knives Out Glass Onion is bad and those that think Knives Out Glass Onion is horrible and it’s tearing this team apart in the locker room.  

I guess I'm in the 3rd group that loved both and thought they were a lot of fun

[BANGheGOTit]

Hopefully this will be a lesson for Travis and force him to change his strategy in both recruiting and game philosophy.  Maybe there’s hope yet?

[majerus mojo]

Austin McBroom and Dwayne Evans had more chemistry than what we’ve been seeing of late. Wouldn’t be shocked if there are reports regarding in-house incidents that affected attitudes once the season is over 

[Schasz]

17 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

My guess is Ford gets two more years but who knows. 

 

 

Two more years of Ford and that Arena will have sparse crowds as I bet another year and you'll see season ticket holders thinking they've had enough. I think the recent text messaged from both of the Chaifetz's appear to be a hopeful sign of enough is enough of CTF!!!

[TheChosenOne]

1 hour ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Same My guess is the team is split between 2 groups: those that think Knives Out Glass Onion is bad and those that think Knives Out Glass Onion is horrible and it’s tearing this team apart in the locker room.  

Hahaha. I really enjoyed Knives Out and my level of disappointment in Knives Out Glass Onion and how much it impacted my mood was rather telling with regards to how little I have going on in my life.

It seems like Ford has struggled to find the right mix of talent on the court, but also the right personality mix. And the season we did make the tournament was a playing with dynamite group of kids. The past few seasons I feel like there is some obvious disconnect in the locker room with it playing out more publicly in years past. So this season I don’t recall anything being visible as a fan beyond really bad optics in games where guys just look disinterested. It’s probably foolish to focus too heavily on body language and how guys interact in huddles etc., but as a fan that’s all we have.

I’m not sure whether I posted it, but last spring I was at the college basketball awards at the MAC and the team was there. I have never seen a team that looked more miserable to be at an event and the guys were not talking to each other at all. Later in the night I went over to their table to talk with Yuri and get a picture and everyone at the table which included athletic department folks and I assume a donor were giving me the death stare, it was super awkward. Yuri though was rather engaging, so as it played out a few weeks later maybe they were aware of Yuri’s intentions. Anyways, I remember seeing the team together and how little interaction they had with each other and thinking how odd it was. Watching them play this season makes me think there was something to that and this group is more of a collection of individual pieces than a true team. If we do retain Ford I think he needs to change some things up whether it be with his assistant coaches and staff or just how he runs his program.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

13 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

I guess I'm in the 3rd group that loved both and thought they were a lot of fun

First one was fantastic. Second wasn’t bad until that ending which was almost as bad as watching the end of the Auburn, Boise, SIUE, Fordham, and VCU games. Or the entire Maryland, Iona, and Dayton games…

[Slu let the dogs out?]

5 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Hahaha. I really enjoyed Knives Out and my level of disappointment in Knives Out Glass Onion and how much it impacted my mood was rather telling with regards to how little I have going on in my life.

Couldn’t have said it better myself 

[longtimelistenerfirsttimec]

my dislike of mizzou and the way tenn. played in loss as me calling for coaching change at tenn. do you think i should post on there web site do you think that my feelings would be well received

[cheeseman]

37 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

My guess is Ford gets two more years but who knows. 

 

 

I hope you are wrong - in two years of the same will set the program back to the Crews years.  Winning 20 games is not the same today as it was 20 years ago so Ford's performance has been much like Sodie and that got him fired.  That lucky run for the Conf tourney win was just that luck and the problem with luck is it just doesn't happen very often.  We have seen Ford pull this the last 3 years so why would anything change.  Unless you know something as fact, the length of years remaining on Ford's contract will be the determining factor.  If he has 2 years left then he might get next year to turn it around but if he has one year left anything could happen. 

[BANGheGOTit]

22 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I hope you are wrong - in two years of the same will set the program back to the Crews years.  Winning 20 games is not the same today as it was 20 years ago so Ford's performance has been much like Sodie and that got him fired.  That lucky run for the Conf tourney win was just that luck and the problem with luck is it just doesn't happen very often.  We have seen Ford pull this the last 3 years so why would anything change.  Unless you know something as fact, the length of years remaining on Ford's contract will be the determining factor.  If he has 2 years left then he might get next year to turn it around but if he has one year left anything could happen. 

What a waste of 15 min listening to Travis on KMOX just now.  Same old thing, “we have to play better”.  It really sounds like he has no idea how to achieve this with this team.  He has 2 years left on the contract, and while the way things are playing out this year doesn’t give much hope for the future, he will probably keep SLU in the top 6-8 teams in the conference, win 18-20 games, and the attendance will be 6000…or just enough to keep some of the people on here saying how we are top 4 in attendance (while not mentioning half the gyms in the A10 are GYMS that seat 1800-5000.  The issue comes when May doesn’t extend Travis and he can’t get the same recruits.  That’s why the next hire needs a Gates-like first season.

 

 

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

44 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

First one was fantastic. Second wasn’t bad until that ending which was almost as bad as watching the end of the Auburn, Boise, SIUE, Fordham, and VCU games. Or the entire Maryland, Iona, and Dayton games…

I thought the ending was ok. I just take as much Benoit as I can get, I'm not sure why folks expected lightning to strike twice, it rarely does. I just like the world-building of the Benoit-verse.

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, billikenbill said:

My guess is Ford gets two more years but who knows.

You are right, no one on this board knows.  But let's talk hypothetical.

First assumption is that Chaifetz has a strong, but not final, say in the situation, particularly the $$.

Second assumption is that Ford has 2 more years on his contract.  That puts a buyout at $5M, plus or minus.

To hire a new coach, you need what---at least $1M.  I don't see overpaying for a P5+1 coach that has been fired.  Or to a P5+1 coach that has heavy, negative, strings attached.  No thanks to Ewing, Beard, Payne, Pastner, etc, etc. 

So now you are looking at a minimum of $6M to change.  What does that leave for the biggest necessity, buying players?  It is more than an assumption that players are on the open market, with high bidder winning.  If we have $6M wrapped up in a new coach, what is left to stock the cupboard with players?  What do we need, half a million?  Quarter million?

No good answers.  I'm not personally prepared to foot the $6.5M bill is the only 'for sure' answer.  Does Dr. Chaifetz among others want to foot that bill? 

[willie]

1 hour ago, TheChosenOne said:

Hahaha. I really enjoyed Knives Out and my level of disappointment in Knives Out Glass Onion and how much it impacted my mood was rather telling with regards to how little I have going on in my life.

It seems like Ford has struggled to find the right mix of talent on the court, but also the right personality mix. And the season we did make the tournament was a playing with dynamite group of kids. The past few seasons I feel like there is some obvious disconnect in the locker room with it playing out more publicly in years past. So this season I don’t recall anything being visible as a fan beyond really bad optics in games where guys just look disinterested. It’s probably foolish to focus too heavily on body language and how guys interact in huddles etc., but as a fan that’s all we have.

I’m not sure whether I posted it, but last spring I was at the college basketball awards at the MAC and the team was there. I have never seen a team that looked more miserable to be at an event and the guys were not talking to each other at all. Later in the night I went over to their table to talk with Yuri and get a picture and everyone at the table which included athletic department folks and I assume a donor were giving me the death stare, it was super awkward. Yuri though was rather engaging, so as it played out a few weeks later maybe they were aware of Yuri’s intentions. Anyways, I remember seeing the team together and how little interaction they had with each other and thinking how odd it was. Watching them play this season makes me think there was something to that and this group is more of a collection of individual pieces than a true team. If we do retain Ford I think he needs to change some things up whether it be with his assistant coaches and staff or just how he runs his program.

I think part of the problem with team unity is that it’s an older team . I was recently at a function where Fred spoke. He was selling the benefits of the O’Loughlin Center. Being an older group the players go their separate ways not hanging out together. His point being the Center will be a place they will eat and spend time together. 

[majerus mojo]

If Ford returns next season, I’d  assume most would not expect an improvement in W-L based on the likely player exodus?

It will be bridge year to ‘24-25, unless he does some serious work in the transfer portal (which is possible given his recruiting/available minutes).

Keeping Ford around just to can him after next season will reek of an aimless/indecisive athletic department (or one who tied their hands with Ford’s contract), and make for another very long year on the board. 

[HoosierPal]

29 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

If Ford returns next season, I’d  assume most would not expect an improvement in W-L based on the likely player exodus?

It will be bridge year to ‘24-25, unless he does some serious work in the transfer portal (which is possible given his recruiting/available minutes).

Keeping Ford around just to can him after next season will reek of an aimless/indecisive athletic department (or one who tied their hands with Ford’s contracts), and make for another very long year on the board. 

Somewhat responded to this earllier:

Likely player exodus, yes.  That is now the new norm in college basketball.  We know 4 are out of eligibility or leaving, 4 who could come back for another round - I'll assume 50% stay, and then 4 freshmen where in any given year you would expect at least one freshman to leave.  That leaves a redshirt soph who may or may not come back.  I am looking at 7 to 8 slots to fill.  You change coaches and your signed recruits typically get freed up to leave.  1, 2 or all 3 could jump.

My very crude estimate on the other thread is that it would take $6.5M to remove the current staff and hire another.  Where does that $ come from?  Chaifetz plus other heavy hitters?  Does the Athletic Department have ample reserves to fund this.  And oh yeah, need a chunk of NIL money on top of that.  Without the NIL $$, it doesn't matter who is coaching the team next season.

 

[Slu let the dogs out?]

41 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

I thought the ending was ok. I just take as much Benoit as I can get, I'm not sure why folks expected lightning to strike twice, it rarely does. I just like the world-building of the Benoit-verse.

No such thing as too much Benoit Blanc that's for sure. I certainly wasn't expecting it to be as great as the first one. What bothered me was that they wrote a pretty entertaining script for the first 2 hours and then decided they could ride the success of the first Knives Out and get away with being lazy the final 20 minutes. Reminds me of how our Billikens finish games.

 

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

19 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Knives Out and get away with being lazy the final 20 minutes. Reminds me of how our Billikens finish games.

Hey now, don't insult the Knives Out series like that, haha. Some of our final 20s were wayyyyy lazier than Glass Onion, lol.

[Taj79]

Sat three rows behind Rammer and Earl in Dayton.  As posted earlier in this thread, I have no clue just what is going on.  Spoke to the AD and big time backer.  Did not broach the Ford subject, it just felt too awkward.  Spoke to others in the AD and the smiles are still there.  Didn't expect anything else.  Alumni gathering was sold out and we were a little late in arriving so saw no one there.  It was my most blidn flight to a SLU/Dayton game at Dayton.

I have long asked just what kidn of offense we are running with Ford.  It's the same old, same old.  Cross half court.  Run three pass weave.  Get ball back to Collins.  Collins make top of the key entry pass to Okoro/Forrester.  Four guys run around until Okoro/Forrester hand ball back to Collins.  Collins goes Curly Neale and a desperation shot is hoisted (by someone).  Or not if it's back to Okoro.  I think somewehre previously nybill asked or suggests better ball movement.  CANNOT HAPPEN WHEN THE BALL IS IN COLLINS' HANDS.  Just can't.  For contrast, watch Dayton.  Ball reversal.  Goes from Elvis to Holmes, back out to Amzil over to Brea.  Three point shot.  Or Camara drives.  Somewhere in there, we lose Brea or we lose Holmes on the pick-and-roll.  Our offense falls down to Collins or Perkins and/or {Parker go on an ill-advised drive.  There are no options that llok like a real designed play.  There are such examples when we inbound under our basket (remember the great [dead] inbpounds play --- throw it into the back court???) or come in from a timeout.  But ONLY in those instances.

Ditto under full court pressure.  There is no double- or triple-stack to free up a ball handler.  It's every man for himself and usually Collins is double teamed.  Happened with Okoro in the Dayton game and the god-awful turnover by Yuri in the Rhode Island game late.  WHY IS THAT??? Especially when everyone knows Collins is getting mugged.  

These are my main gripes on Ford right now.  Offensive design.  On defense, I can understand losing Rory Stewart for one three but not three.  Conversely, I can't buy losing Brea or Smith for wide open threes .... ever.  Something is just not right.  

Wednesday is now the new key game ---- we better not lose to Davidson at Chaifetz.  My going to Brooklyn is fading --- why pay all that money and devote all that time when every game will be on TV just the same?  I truly am going insane --- watching every game turn out the same yet expecting different results.  Maybe we should switch the game plan ---  let Yuri take all the shots in the first half and open it up in the second half for his assists.  Maybe its time to embrace the hero and go with it.  

We had a miracle in Memphis 20 years or so ago.  Maybe that's all we have left for this year.  Maybe --- but I doubt it.

[BANGheGOTit]

21 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Sat three rows behind Rammer and Earl in Dayton.  As posted earlier in this thread, I have no clue just what is going on.  Spoke to the AD and big time backer.  Did not broach the Ford subject, it just felt too awkward.  Spoke to others in the AD and the smiles are still there.  Didn't expect anything else.  Alumni gathering was sold out and we were a little late in arriving so saw no one there.  It was my most blidn flight to a SLU/Dayton game at Dayton.

I have long asked just what kidn of offense we are running with Ford.  It's the same old, same old.  Cross half court.  Run three pass weave.  Get ball back to Collins.  Collins make top of the key entry pass to Okoro/Forrester.  Four guys run around until Okoro/Forrester hand ball back to Collins.  Collins goes Curly Neale and a desperation shot is hoisted (by someone).  Or not if it's back to Okoro.  I think somewehre previously nybill asked or suggests better ball movement.  CANNOT HAPPEN WHEN THE BALL IS IN COLLINS' HANDS.  Just can't.  For contrast, watch Dayton.  Ball reversal.  Goes from Elvis to Holmes, back out to Amzil over to Brea.  Three point shot.  Or Camara drives.  Somewhere in there, we lose Brea or we lose Holmes on the pick-and-roll.  Our offense falls down to Collins or Perkins and/or {Parker go on an ill-advised drive.  There are no options that llok like a real designed play.  There are such examples when we inbound under our basket (remember the great [dead] inbpounds play --- throw it into the back court???) or come in from a timeout.  But ONLY in those instances.

Ditto under full court pressure.  There is no double- or triple-stack to free up a ball handler.  It's every man for himself and usually Collins is double teamed.  Happened with Okoro in the Dayton game and the god-awful turnover by Yuri in the Rhode Island game late.  WHY IS THAT??? Especially when everyone knows Collins is getting mugged.  

These are my main gripes on Ford right now.  Offensive design.  On defense, I can understand losing Rory Stewart for one three but not three.  Conversely, I can't buy losing Brea or Smith for wide open threes .... ever.  Something is just not right.  

Wednesday is now the new key game ---- we better not lose to Davidson at Chaifetz.  My going to Brooklyn is fading --- why pay all that money and devote all that time when every game will be on TV just the same?  I truly am going insane --- watching every game turn out the same yet expecting different results.  Maybe we should switch the game plan ---  let Yuri take all the shots in the first half and open it up in the second half for his assists.  Maybe its time to embrace the hero and go with it.  

We had a miracle in Memphis 20 years or so ago.  Maybe that's all we have left for this year.  Maybe --- but I doubt it.

It sounds like our greatest asset is the biggest reason we are losing. This offense just absolutely sucks! Anytime there is criticism of Yuri Collins the board just goes crazy.  Before you all go nuclear, I am not saying Yuri is necessarily at fault. It very well could be that he has taken it upon himself to play this way or it’s also possible he has been instructed to play this way either by the coaching staff or someone in his ear.  Either way, is a pathetic performance. There is absolutely no imagination to this offense.  This is supposed to be one of-if not the best point guards in America according to many people, and all this team does is run the same crap, or stand around.  Statistically speaking Yuri may be great, but the results say differently.  Teams seem to have figured this team out.  Is 55-65 points going to be the norm down the stretch now?

[Schasz]

4 hours ago, longtimelistenerfirsttimec said:

my dislike of mizzou and the way tenn. played in loss as me calling for coaching change at tenn. do you think i should post on there web site do you think that my feelings would be well received

Knock yourself out if you want to post on the Vols fan website. There are fans on that website who are not Rick Barnes fans. I'm not dumb enough to be in that category. CRB will be in the HOF as soon as he retires which will be soon. FWIW he did not miss the foul shots Santi Vescovi missed last night that would have clinched the win. Like Rick I did feel bad for Santi as he is a very good player and was a reason for the Vols comeback in the 2nd half.

[SLUMS81]

7 hours ago, dlarry said:

I thought it was odd a few weeks back when Ford came out and said something along the lines of “we are having some chemistry problems we hope to figure out.” 
The next quotes were from Collins saying “we don’t have any chemistry problems we all like each other and get along.”

It sure looks like they have major chemistry problems to me. 
 

I wonder why they might be having chemistry problems? 
I certainly have my guesses.

 

  Here’s my guess:

We are a veteran team.

Veteran teams don’t forget what to do when playing a quality opponent.

TF is not telling them to make bad decisions.

TF has lost this team. They are no longer listening.

[longtimelistenerfirsttimec]

not a serious comment i guess i am tired of tenn. fan advise sorry i will be at game wed. and hope to see a win no matter who is coaching

[Dr. Holly Hills]

[BANGheGOTit]

Could we hire Andy Reid to come in and design some plays for Travis?

[billikenbill]

9 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Could we hire Andy Reid to come in and design some plays for Travis?

Agree, maybe he could help us make more field goals.