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1 hour ago, Cowboy II said:

-Yuri, at this point you have to play smarter both in fouls and ball handling and it sure looked to me that on your 5th foul you didn't want to play anymore, I hope I am wrong and there is nothing to this but I didn't like the look of it. the turnovers are more acceptable than the stupid fouls, just not smart

He was in a sense of urgency and made a bad hustle play. He got ball, then fouled. If he manages to poke that ball away he's a hero, but what we're NOT going to do is question his heart because he didn't manage to poke it away. We've never once seen anything from Yuri that leads us to believe he'd quit like that. 

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59 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-TJ gets his second foul at the 15.32 mark, I get he had made 3 3's,  he was on a 13 foul pace at that point, I don't call that a yank by CFord, I do call it not smart by TJ

I'm not objecting to removing Hargrove earlly at 15:32 after he picked up his second foul.  Ford also properly put Hargrove back in the game in the first half at 10:39, didn't make him sit out the remainder of the first half (like what happened to Monroe Douglass in the NIT Final).  My beef is Ford removing Hargrove with 5:01 remaining in the first half and confining him to the bench the rest of the half, for the last 5:01, during which time SLU was outscored 12-7.

My bigger beef is the second half failure to reinsert Nesbitt at 11:14 when Yuri Collins left with his 4th foul.  SLU played the next 2:08 with the lineup of Jones, Thatch, Jimerson, Hargrove and Okoro, and was outscored 8-2 during that fatal stretch before Nesbitt was put back in the game at 9:06.

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1 hour ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Hargrove was a yank. Players can play with 2 fouls. An early in the game 2nd foul yank of Monroe Douglass once likely caused SLU to lose an NIT Championship.

In an earlier era 2 fouls did not result in removal from a game; 3 fouls did.

But the bigger, fatal yank, was Nesbitt in the second half, which, coupled with Yuri Collins’ 4th foul, resulted in the absence of a High Division 1 ball handler for 2:08, during which time SLU was outscored by 6 points, 8-2, in a game SLU lost by 5.

 

53 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

I'm not objecting to removing Hargrove earlly at 15:32 after he picked up his second foul.  Ford also properly put Hargrove back in the game in the first half at 10:39, didn't make him sit out the remainder of the first half (like what happened to Monroe Douglass in the NIT Final).  My beef is Ford removing Hargrove with 5:01 remaining in the first half and confining him to the bench the rest of the half, for the last 5:01, during which time SLU was outscored 12-7.

My bigger beef is the second half failure to reinsert Nesbitt at 11:14 when Yuri Collins left with his 4th foul.  SLU played the next 2:08 with the lineup of Jones, Thatch, Jimerson, Hargrove and Okoro, and was outscored 8-2 during that fatal stretch before Nesbitt was put back in the game at 9:06.

-as they used to say, let's go to the video tape

 

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14 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

 

-as they used to say, let's go to the video tape

 

Yes, in the words of Warner Wolf, "Let's go to the videotape."

The objectionable Hargrove removal aka the yank (and confinement to the bench) was at 5:01 remaining in the 1st Half, not at 15:32 remaining in the Half after Hargrove Foul #2.  Coach Ford put Hargrove back in the game at 10:39.  The issue is when Hargrove was removed at 5:01, he did not return to the floor in the first half, during which time SLU was outscored 12-7.

The bigger issue was in the second half when Nesbitt was still kept on the bench after Yuri Collins was assessed his 4th foul and remained there for 2:08, during which sequence Dayton outscored SLU 8-2.  

This SLU team cannot have Yuri Collins and Jordan Nesbitt both on the bench at the same time.  It is really that simple.

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6 hours ago, Bills By 40 said:

He was in a sense of urgency and made a bad hustle play. He got ball, then fouled. If he manages to poke that ball away he's a hero, but what we're NOT going to do is question his heart because he didn't manage to poke it away. We've never once seen anything from Yuri that leads us to believe he'd quit like that. 

Hmmm, I saw it the same way as Cowboy….looked like an “I want out of the game” foul to me.  Insane to reach in like that with 4 fouls. Can’t explain why Yuri would act like this, but sure as heck was my gut feeling when he did it. 

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2 hours ago, Gremio14 said:

Hmmm, I saw it the same way as Cowboy….looked like an “I want out of the game” foul to me.  Insane to reach in like that with 4 fouls. Can’t explain why Yuri would act like this, but sure as heck was my gut feeling when he did it. 

That is ridiculous. He went out when we were down 9 points with 2 minutes left. He took a risk because we were desperate. He probably overcommitted and couldn’t back out. You can’t make any assumptions other than that.

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2 hours ago, Gremio14 said:

Hmmm, I saw it the same way as Cowboy….looked like an “I want out of the game” foul to me.  Insane to reach in like that with 4 fouls. Can’t explain why Yuri would act like this, but sure as heck was my gut feeling when he did it. 

Agree. Grabbing Camara 80 feet from the bucket, when you have four fouls and needed by your team that is on life support, is not the right play. Even with Camara missing both FT’s Yuri has to play smarter than that. 

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17 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Even with Camara missing both FT’s Yuri has to play smarter than that. 

I believe this is why the foul was committed. Unfortunately yuri was just the one closest. 

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I always figured Monroe Douglas got yanked so Roland Gray would surpass him as total points leader- Rich Grawer would often yank Kevin Footes for getting rebound dribbling length of floor and dunking ball- Grawer missed his calling when girls had to pass after three dribbles

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On 1/12/2022 at 12:07 PM, Cowboy II said:

-we do not play smart which leads to many things including fouling jump shooters, going for every shot fake and not taking care of the ball

-TJ, you made 3 3's and were headed for a monster night, I wanted to see it,  but you had already committed a foul and then commit your second in less than 5 minutes, not smart 

-Yuri, at this point you have to play smarter both in fouls and ball handling and it sure looked to me that on your 5th foul you didn't want to play anymore, I hope I am wrong and there is nothing to this but I didn't like the look of it. the turnovers are more acceptable than the stupid fouls, just not smart

-I question whoever posted about our shot selection, does that just look at where on the floor we shoot or does it also consider who is there to defend? SVU's defense was to allow us to go to the basket because they had two rim protectors there, hence our horrible, absolutely horrible 2pt%

-we were making 3's, making them from the start, and we don't shoot enough because imo we don't have sets to get open looks.  I really don't get our shot selection last night, we had two guys with great but limited 3pt attempts, let's get them more 3pt shots

-it was comical when we tried to call timeout and SVU took the ball and scored, what are we in 4th grade? Skip, no offense if your girls don't do this

-CFord, I am with you, really I am, but careful with your language Careful on saying you will be playing Markhi more and then giving him less than a minute and a very quick hook, careful on the postgame blaming the players but not saying anything about the coaching, 

-we did show heart to open the second half to close the lead, then we get hit with adversity and crumble and the game escapes us

-we'll see where we go from here, season is not over, it could be, depends on what guts and brains we have

 

I hope your questioning of Yuri's heart was just a momentary lack of judgement. 

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23 hours ago, Gremio14 said:

Hmmm, I saw it the same way as Cowboy….looked like an “I want out of the game” foul to me.  Insane to reach in like that with 4 fouls. Can’t explain why Yuri would act like this, but sure as heck was my gut feeling when he did it. 

The play as bad as it was, is still better than this post. Questioning whether Yuri would intentionally quit in a game is absurd.

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5 hours ago, GOSLU68 said:

I always figured Monroe Douglas got yanked so Roland Gray would surpass him as total points leader- Rich Grawer would often yank Kevin Footes for getting rebound dribbling length of floor and dunking ball- Grawer missed his calling when girls had to pass after three dribbles

While Monroe Douglass was yanked after he was assessed an early 2nd foul in the NIT Final, the result was that his high school teammate Roland Gray did indeed pass Douglass on SLU's all-time scoring list. It's doubtful it was planned that way.  But I remember that game, was chagrined that Coach Grawer confined Douglass to the bench the rest of the first half, which was most of the first half.  I think the Coach just has to have more faith in the player in that situation, especially a star player like Monroe Douglass who could not be effectively replaced.

In the old, long gone days, a player was kept in the game with 2 fouls, was only removed with 3 fouls.  It was about that time that the policy changed.

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I believe TJ's two fouls came guarding Camara.  From where I sat, it was obvious Dayton was clearing out for Camara to set him up against Hargrove.  Camara is 6'9"; TJ a gracious 6'4".  The yank then was justified and I was surprised as most that TJ actually reappeared that half.  Dayton again went to Camara but I recall it only once and the third foul never came.  

Fouls are more about the refs sight angle than actual contact most of the time it seems.

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15 hours ago, slufanskip said:

The play as bad as it was, is still better than this post. Questioning whether Yuri would intentionally quit in a game is absurd.

+100000

Lot of slander going on here and none of it is well founded. Anyone that saw that play as Yuri quitting saw it that way because that's how they wanted to see it. Any sense tells us it was a designed foul a bad free throw shooter play. 

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A lot of MBMs really thought we were going to win in Dayton for the first time in 8 years.  When it didn't happen, in a game where Yuri struggled mightily, he's an easy scapegoat.  Now, any time Yuri makes a bad play at the end of a game, that will be used as further "evidence" that Yuri quits under pressure.  

Being the defacto team leader really is a thankless job.

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1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

A lot of MBMs really thought we were going to win in Dayton for the first time in 8 years.  When it didn't happen, in a game where Yuri struggled mightily, he's an easy scapegoat.  Now, any time Yuri makes a bad play at the end of a game, that will be used as further "evidence" that Yuri quits under pressure.  

Being the defacto team leader really is a thankless job.

I pointed this out in a different post.  Yuri's +/- was 0 in a game we lost by 5 and in which we outscored Dayton by 4 in quasi "garbage time" after Yuri fouled out.  He didn't have a great game, but scapegoating him as the reason we lost is absurd.

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