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O.T. Conference Shuffle ( OU and Texas inquire about joining SEC)


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10 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Whether or not they can get Wichita State back, I would pursue Murray State.

If WSU's only options are staying in the AAC or going back to the Valley, here's what they're looking at:

Memphis
SMU
Tulsa
South Florida
Temple
East Carolina
Tulane

vs.

Loyola
Belmont
Drake
Illinois State
Indiana State
SIUC
UNI
Evansville
Bradley
Valpo
Missouri State

It's tempting to stay in the first, smaller group and try to remain a strong 1-2 punch at the top with Memphis, but we all know Memphis is gone at the first opportunity.

Question number two is if there's a conference with Loyola, Belmont, and Wichita State at the top, does SLU's view of the Valley shift again? I've been a hard no on this since as far back as the CUSA days, but what if WSU goes back and the Valley is willing to go to 14 with SLU and Dayton?

I was never pro-MVC but when X and Butler left it took a lot of the appeal for me staying in the A10.

If we could convince Dayton to come with us to the above MVC, that would make a nice conference.

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9 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

I don’t understand why posters continue treating Loyola as some power program. It is just as likely that they will fall back to where they were without Porter.

You want the Chicago market for TV exposure/recruiting. Our TV exposure I always felt was pretty good because of the A10 being present in those Northeast metro markets.

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5 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Why can’t we start a new conference and bring in the teams we want. Basketball only, higher pedigree.

To your question, I am biased. I would probably rather watch SLU play any MVC team than watch SLU play the bottom half of the A10. That said, it is fun to play Dayton, and without them, it would be a hard sell. I definitely feel an affiliation with VCU and whatever hot teams show up from year to year, but nothing that wouldn’t heal.

A new conference is probably the toughest ask unless the AAC just falls apart completely. Too many teams paying too many exit fees. Some of the schools we'd want right now have football and seem committed to it, at least for the moment.

As for the bottom half of the A10, I agree they're no help. But we're still better off in the A10 than the MVC and I think the same thing is true about the two conferences as with the AAC, i.e. that the A10 programs likely outspend MVC programs with a few exceptions. Taking another look at the Valley - to me, anyway - would require some more pieces to move. The top half of the A10 still makes it the better home for now.

4 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

I don’t understand why posters continue treating Loyola as some power program. It is just as likely that they will fall back to where they were without Porter.

I don't think anyone thinks of them as a power. If Loyola does slide to a mid-Valley team for an extended period, they're obviously less attractive as a conference mate. I think they'll still be solid, though. They're outrecruiting the other teams in the conference.

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23 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

I think it cost Wichits st 2.5 million to join the AAC. THE AAC has a 10 million exit fee. I can't see Wichita St  paying that to get back where they started. Their situation shows the folly of a basketball only school joining a football conference

I highly doubt the the AAC is going to make Wichita St. pay a $10 million exist fee at this time.  Wichita St was only brought into to the conference in an attempt to keep UConn. It actually makes sense for the AAC to focus completely on like minded institutions with football programs right now.

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2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I highly doubt the the AAC is going to make Wichita St. pay a $10 million exist fee at this time.  Wichita St was only brought into to the conference in an attempt to keep UConn. It actually makes sense for the AAC to focus completely on like minded institutions with football programs right now.

Why wouldn't they?  Wichita St. has absolutely no leverage here.

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27 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Belmont, and Wichita State at the top, does SLU's view of the Valley shift again? I've been a hard no on this since as far back as the CUSA days, but what if WSU goes back and the Valley is willing to go to 14 with SLU and Dayton?

My biggest question mark is Loyola post Moser.  I think that may be the biggest factor in all of this.  If they can continue anywhere close to where he left them, then I agree.  It wouldn't surprise me if they fell back to middle of the pack for a long time as well. I hope thats not the case, but I just think it very well may be.

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9 minutes ago, tarheelbilliken said:

You want the Chicago market for TV exposure/recruiting. Our TV exposure I always felt was pretty good because of the A10 being present in those Northeast metro markets.

That is a fallacy. Loyola's relevance in the Chicago market is about as much as Fordham's in the New York market. 

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6 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I don't think anyone thinks of them as a power. If Loyola does slide to a mid-Valley team for an extended period, they're obviously less attractive as a conference mate. I think they'll still be solid, though. They're outrecruiting the other teams in the conference.

Well you used them as a reason why the MVC could be attractive over the A10. A mid-Valley team, which I am guessing Loyola will become, does nothing for us. 

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33 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

I think it cost Wichita St 2.5 million to join the AAC. THE AAC has a 10 million exit fee. I can't see Wichita St  paying that to get back where they started. Their situation shows the folly of a basketball only school joining a football conference

The exit fee is indeed $10 MM, with a 27 month notice.  It can be 'adjusted' (upward) for a quicker exit.  These figures are in the reports on the three teams leaving.  What we don't know if Wichita State has the same exit conditions, being that they are not a football team.  Their impact on the league (football dollars) is less than the departing three.

And Charles Koch could pay the $10 MM by collecting the money that has fallen out of his pockets into his couch.  If Wichita St wants out, and Koch is on board, they are gone.

 

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9 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Why wouldn't they?  Wichita St. has absolutely no leverage here.

Same reason the Sun Belt is going to send UALR and UTA packing.  When your goal is to survive as a viable football conference you don't want institutions that don't have a D1 football program voting on the conference's future.

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1 minute ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Well you used them as a reason why the MVC could be attractive over the A10. A mid-Valley team, which I am guessing Loyola will become, does nothing for us. 

There will be a transition period but I still think they're a top-3 Valley team long term.

Belmont would win the Valley this season.

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13 minutes ago, wgstl said:

My biggest question mark is Loyola post Moser.  I think that may be the biggest factor in all of this.  If they can continue anywhere close to where he left them, then I agree.  It wouldn't surprise me if they fell back to middle of the pack for a long time as well. I hope thats not the case, but I just think it very well may be.

For the moment, Loyola's recruiting remains solid.  Two of their three 2022 commitments are from players we were also pursuing.  They lost Krutwig to graduation, but got a transfer capable of racking up double doubles.  The new coach was Moser's assistant for the past four years and should know the system by now.  The Ramblers are still in a good position to challenge for the MVC title.

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2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

For the moment, Loyola's recruiting remains solid.  Two of their three commitments were from players we were also pursuing.  They lost Krutwig to graduation, but got a transfer capable of racking up double doubles.  The new coach was Moser's assistant for the past four years and should know the system by now.  The Ramblers are still in a good position to challenge for the MVC title.

As long as that assistant is better than Jim Crews...🤦‍♂️

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16 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

That is a fallacy. Loyola's relevance in the Chicago market is about as much as Fordham's in the New York market. 

I would say that was true 5 years ago but not today. Even if they return to mediocrity (which I agree, they probably will), they will live off the success for a few years like they did with national championship they had in the 60s. State directional schools in a cornfield are not attractive for TV.  BTW, if Fordham would take basketball seriously, they could own NYC. I lived in NY that one year they had Phelps. 

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20 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

That is a fallacy. Loyola's relevance in the Chicago market is about as much as Fordham's in the New York market. 

I disagree with how relevant Loyola currently is in Chicago.  

Regardless, an irrelevant Loyola in a conference is important just as an irrelevant Fordham is important.  Their presence gets you games in those cities which could help with recruiting, but more importantly gets you a chance to work well funded alumni in those cities for donations.  

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5 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I disagree with how relevant Loyola currently is in Chicago.  

Regardless, an irrelevant Loyola in a conference is important just as an irrelevant Fordham is important.  Their presence gets you games in those cities which could help with recruiting, but more importantly gets you a chance to work well funded alumni in those cities for donations.  

People in Chicago care about Loyola more than Fordham, but not really before NCAA time. You won’t find them on TV much here, but a lot of maroon and gold was around the city during the last two tournaments. There’s a lot of colleges competing for relevance here, and a lot of alumni from various places settle in Chicago, so it’s a tough market. 

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On 9/24/2021 at 1:10 PM, 3star_recruit said:

Why wouldn't they?  Wichita St. has absolutely no leverage here.

Most of the fees are usually reduced after litigation the reach settlements.   So $10mil is the starting point what would be worth it?   I don't know would have to look at conference pay outs.

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Apparently Colorado State and Air Force are going to leave the Mountain West for the American.

Which is a baffling move to me. MWC will be stronger than the AAC in both football and basketball moving forward.

It's being reported that there are rumblings of little faith in the MWC commissioner. Everyone in the league wishes they'd get a Big 12 or Pac 12 invite, but most of them have no shot at either and would be much better off staying together.

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49 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Apparently Colorado State and Air Force are going to leave the Mountain West for the American.

Which is a baffling move to me. MWC will be stronger than the AAC in both football and basketball moving forward.

It's being reported that there are rumblings of little faith in the MWC commissioner. Everyone in the league wishes they'd get a Big 12 or Pac 12 invite, but most of them have no shot at either and would be much better off staying together.

Normally, it is all about money. Short-term and long-term. That is probably all it is here.

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On 9/24/2021 at 11:28 AM, tarheelbilliken said:

I would say that was true 5 years ago but not today. Even if they return to mediocrity (which I agree, they probably will), they will live off the success for a few years like they did with national championship they had in the 60s. State directional schools in a cornfield are not attractive for TV.  BTW, if Fordham would take basketball seriously, they could own NYC. I lived in NY that one year they had Phelps. 

This is very true.  Fordham has a lot of NYC and Tri-State Area alumni, and retains latent support.   I was just in NYC, saw the Cards play the Mets at Citi Field, sat behind the Cardinal dugout, surrounded by a group of age 20'ish fans, some of them NY Mets club employees.  After I told them our son is a Fordham alumnus, one of those fans told me Fordham should not have fired Tom Pecora, and I agree there.  While Pecora had a bad record at Fordham, he was getting good recruits, such as Eric Paschall, a current Golden State Warrior, and Chris Gaston before him.  Pecora could have run and won the Mayor's election in NYC after Fordham upset St. John's at Rose Hill Gym.

In any event, Fordham has hired its new Coach from Jay Wright's staff at Villanova.  He certainly has a good pedigree.

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