O.T. Conference Shuffle ( OU and Texas inquire about joining SEC)

[cgeldmacher]

17 hours ago, thetorch said:

"Institutional Fit" or "Like Minded" is the biggest myth that has been peddled to and by SLU fans in regard to the A10.

This is basketball.  No one cares if a school is Jesuit or not, or has certain majors, or higher acceptance rates like SLU's.  

None of that matters at all.  When it is brought up as a positive for the A10 I will shut it down every time.

We have a 10,500-seat arena, a 2.5 mil per year coach, opening the 20 mil champions center, the largest asst budgets, charter flights, and the list goes on.

What programs are doing this in the A10 beside us?  Dayton, maybe VCU.  What programs are even close to us in this respect?  Anyone? Bueller?  The Champions Center, basically a huge athlete lounge costs more than 3/4 of the conference's arenas.

Look how much the conference applauded Fordham for finishing in the top half of the league last year.  They play in a 100 year old arena with 1500 seats in the basketball capital of the world and they can't sell out.  1500 seats in NYC?!?!?!  Fordham is excited about this?  There are HS teams in the MCC with better facilities and bigger budgets than Fordham.

Did you see the pictures of Davidson's locker rooms?  Simply atrocious.  I could build a better locker room on a weekend with a $1000 budget and a crew I found standing outside the home depot.  A college with less than 2,000 undergrads playing in a 40 year old arena that is half full most games is not a like minded institution.

The list goes on LaSalle, St Joes, Mason, St Bona, Loyola, Duquesne, GW, these are all schools just happy to be in the A10.  They have neither the want or need to be any better than they are, low rent borderline mid major programs.  What do we share in common with them?

Then we have the public dregs, UMass and Rhode Island, flush with cash but certainly don't spend it on hoops.  UMass has a terrible football program to support, RI is happy to be second fiddle to Providence.  Nothing in common with SLU.  Terrible programs, terrible facilities that SLU dwarfs in every imaginable concern.

Even in our worst attendance year, we averaged a hair under 7k last year.  SLU still DOUBLED the attendance of NINE teams in the A10.  We TRIPLED the attendance of 4 teams.  How is that an indication of "Like Minded" schools.

Every fan on this board has at one point questioned the commitment of SLU's administration to athletics.  Imagine being a LaSalle fan, a Fordham fan, a GW fan, and on and on?  These programs aren't just worse than ours they are exponentially worse than ours. 

SLU places a high value on athletics, maybe not high enough but we are head and shoulders above everyone in this conference save for Dayton and VCU.  I may not know what conference SLU should be in, but I know it isn't the A10.  We've been in this dump second class conference for going on 19 years and it has gotten us nowhere.  The days of making excuses, "this is the best place for us" "Institutional fit" "We make $20 more dollars from ESPN+" trying to convince ourselves that we are in good shape should be over.  

Even if everything you said is true, that does't mean the the correct reaction to all that is to move to a lesser conference.

[cgeldmacher]

4 hours ago, brianstl said:

The MVC shares tournament revenue equally.  In the A10 the tourney team keeps 75% and the conference only gets 25% and that 25% is spread among more programs. So payouts in MVC will be higher for that reason alone.

Unless we are the team making the tournament, which is the goal.  Then we would be giving away money by switching.

[cgeldmacher]

9 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I like the idea in an "out of the box" way. I don't think this part would necessarily be true. You still need conference officials on the ground at some level as well as enough folks to handle a lot of schools and their needs. 

I would also kick some of the no-loads out and add in some of the midwestern private schools Belmont, Drake, Bradley, etc. to create a better nationwide swath. 

I wasn't suggesting not having a conference office or commissioner.  I was just saying that the two conference offices (A-10 and WCC) would not be so excited about working on this idea if it meant one of the two offices gets laid off.  The schools would have to do the deal on their own.

[cgeldmacher]

11 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I like the idea in an "out of the box" way. I don't think this part would necessarily be true. You still need conference officials on the ground at some level as well as enough folks to handle a lot of schools and their needs. 

I would also kick some of the no-loads out and add in some of the midwestern private schools Belmont, Drake, Bradley, etc. to create a better nationwide swath. 

Also, for those that have always wanted to dump the dead weight of the A-10, this would be an opportunity to do that.  As we know, it is nearly impossible to drop a team from an athletic conference.  However, if the upper portion of the A-10 accepted offers to joint the WCC, they could leave the dead weight behind.

[brianstl]

SMU boosters were smart enough to play the game like it was buying a pro sports franchise before anyone else and as a result SMU was able to secure their spot at what will look like a cheap price a couple of years from now.

Are there people involved with SLU willing to play this game? If those people exist do they realize that real future safety in top tier college athletics isn’t necessarily guaranteed in the Big East and it is time to think outside the box and see if they can buy their way into the Big 12?

[Lord Elrond]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

SMU boosters were smart enough to play the game like it was buying a pro sports franchise before anyone else and as a result SMU was able to secure their spot at what will look like a cheap price a couple of years from now.

Are there people involved with SLU willing to play this game? If those people exist do they realize that real future safety in top tier college athletics isn’t necessarily guaranteed in the Big East and it is time to think outside the box and see if they can buy their way into the Big 12?

The Big 12, or any other P5 conference, would not be seriously interested in a university without a very good football program.

[thetorch]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

SMU boosters were smart enough to play the game like it was buying a pro sports franchise before anyone else and as a result SMU was able to secure their spot at what will look like a cheap price a couple of years from now.

Are there people involved with SLU willing to play this game? If those people exist do they realize that real future safety in top tier college athletics isn’t necessarily guaranteed in the Big East and it is time to think outside the box and see if they can buy their way into the Big 12?

I love this.  Will we need a partner, ie a non football team to join with us.  The obvious choice is Gonzaga.  Or do we just need to join Dayton and get in this conference?

I think we could appeal to KU just to piss off Mizzou.  Dayton could also appeal to Cincinnati to piss off Xavier.

Dayton is typically much more proactive than we are.  If football realignment is essentially over now for the Big 12 why not join forces with Dayton and get in this conference?

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said:

The Big 12, or any other P5 conference, would not be seriously interested in a university without a very good football program.

everything has a price.   ask the big 12 to throw them a price and accept regardless.  whatever it is, if indeed only the 4 big football conferences survive and become the one real D1 conference, it would be worth it. 

[Lord Elrond]

19 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

everything has a price.   ask the big 12 to throw them a price and accept regardless.  whatever it is, if indeed only the 4 big football conferences survive and become the one real D1 conference, it would be worth it. 

The big conferences could just pull their football teams some Super D1 alignment, and leave the rest alone. Another alternative would be to do that, do the same with their Men’s basketball programs (super conference type thing), and then allow everyone to let their other teams fall into whatever conferences seem best for them (I’m assuming they would be other schools near to them). Go with completely separate tv rights agreements for football and basketball, which would maximize revenue, and minimize expenses among the other sports. Under this, you could bring in other schools separately for both football and basketball if that makes sense to bring them in the Super D1 conferences. The one thing it would be hard to get past is everyone is so used to all the sports being in the same conference, but things change, and this would allow for maximum revenue while minimizing costs.

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said:

The Big 12, or any other P5 conference, would not be seriously interested in a university without a very good football program.

The Big 12 commissioner has been vocal about building out the conference for basketball in addition to football and has shown that the Big 12 under his leadership is more than open to outside the box thinking.

[Compton]

Not exactly Conference Shuffle, but I was looking at games in Brooklyn this fall and saw that the St. Francis College Terriers (Northeast Conference) will not be competing in D-I. The school announced in March that they will be eliminating their athletics program.

[TheA_Bomb]

Another bombshell athletes vs NCAA court case brewing.  Athletes seeking class status for case vs NCAA for loss of NIL. If they get class status it'll be class action vs NCAA for billions. 

https://www.on3.com/nil/news/why-the-house-antitrust-lawsuit-is-high-stakes-for-the-ncaa-nil-title-ix/

This goes with my previous arguments for a hands off system.  Less rules, less lawsuits and sports continue. 

[HoosierPal]

 

 

 

 

 

 

West Pine Big Ten Haters

 

@WestPineBills

·

13h

 

I don’t mean this in a rude way, but someone has to want UMass in order for them to leave. Not sure how attractive they are with recent hoops and Football track record.

Quote

 

 

Fight Massachusetts

 

@FightMA247

·

13h

I believe if it does inevitably happen (sooner, later, whenever) both UMass and the A10 will be better off going their separate ways The school and the conference just aren't a fit anymore, haven't been for a while

[Bay Area Billiken]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/promotionrelegation-in-college-football-game-changing-idea-could-help-save-pac-12/ar-AA1gY0gg

https://www.kgw.com/article/sports/locked-on/lo-national/pac-12-show/pac-12-mountain-west-merger-could-include-conference-relegation-college-athletics/535-6a8ccd4c-a916-45a2-a8cc-7d51358bb388

The idea of introducing English Soccer relegation to the discussed Pac-2/Mountain West merger is very interesting. 

On another note, the current Pac-12, in its last season, has 8 teams ranked in the Top 25 in both the AP and FCS Coaches College Football polls.

 

[Bay Area Billiken]

https://themessenger.com/sports/big-12-gonzaga-conference-realignment-college-sports-mens-basketball

[Cowboy II]

1 hour ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

https://themessenger.com/sports/big-12-gonzaga-conference-realignment-college-sports-mens-basketball

-I have thoughts on why they would move and why they wouldn't, will be interesting to see what Gonz decides

[Bay Area Billiken]

36 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-I have thoughts on why they would move and why they wouldn't, will be interesting to see what Gonz decides

I expect Zags to XII will happen. Irrespective of the article saying XII would have 17 members, I think an 18th spot will open and be in play. 

[TheA_Bomb]

2 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

I expect Zags to XII will happen. Irrespective of the article saying XII would have 17 members, I think an 18th spot will open and be in play. 

This is weird but would they need to add another BB only school?  Could SLU make an argument? SLU with B12 exposure/recruiting.... might require a SMU like Alumni promise

[johnbj14]

1 minute ago, TheA_Bomb said:

This is weird but would they need to add another BB only school?  Could SLU make an argument? SLU with B12 exposure/recruiting.... might require a SMU like Alumni promise

Gonzaga is in the conversation because they win a ton, are a national brand, and will draw TV dollars. We have zero of those things at the present moment, and have no argument. SLU to the Big 12 is one of the most absurd things ever put forth on this board. 

[willie]

7 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

This is weird but would they need to add another BB only school?  Could SLU make an argument? SLU with B12 exposure/recruiting.... might require a SMU like Alumni promise

No

[ACE]

Our best outcome would be the formation of a new national basketball-only conference - primarily take the best from the WCC and the A-10. Have two 7-team divisions, East and West. Play everyone in your own conference twice, play each team in the other conference once a year - and due to travel, play those games on weekends.

If you can't be in the Big East, then work on creating the best basketball-only conference you can. I think a league like that could attract a decent tv contract and would have some appeal. Give Gonzaga the biggest seat at the table to structure the conference as they see fit -

[Bay Area Billiken]

36 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

This is weird but would they need to add another BB only school?  Could SLU make an argument? SLU with B12 exposure/recruiting.... might require a SMU like Alumni promise

Yes and Yes️️

The Big XII Commissioner previously spoke of unbundling Basketball, thinks Hoops is undervalued. SLU sits right in the middle of the #21 TV market, well within the XII footprint. 
 

SLU and new XII member Cincinnati were conference mates for many years, from the Missouri Valley to the Metro, to the Great Midwest, to C-USA. SLU and Oklahoma State (then Oklahoma A&M) were once big rivals long ago in the MVC. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

30 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

Gonzaga is in the conversation because they win a ton, are a national brand, and will draw TV dollars. We have zero of those things at the present moment, and have no argument. SLU to the Big 12 is one of the most absurd things ever put forth on this board. 

Was SMU to the ACC also absurd? How about Stanford and Cal to the ACC?  While I would say so in all 3 cases, and while PAC-12 supporters are asking if a timeout and do over are possible, those three moves actually have happened. 

[slu72]

14 minutes ago, ACE said:

Our best outcome would be the formation of a new national basketball-only conference - primarily take the best from the WCC and the A-10. Have two 7-team divisions, East and West. Play everyone in your own conference twice, play each team in the other conference once a year - and due to travel, play those games on weekends.

If you can't be in the Big East, then work on creating the best basketball-only conference you can. I think a league like that could attract a decent tv contract and would have some appeal. Give Gonzaga the biggest seat at the table to structure the conference as they see fit -

This is the best solution for SLU. I don’t know if Zaga would be open to it if they get an offer from the B12. Because the B12 $$’s from BB alone would likely dwarf any $$’s this new conf would generate. As for SLU getting in the B12, chances would be slim to none. Our biggest selling point would be market size and that really hasn’t carried much weight re with the Beast. 
Really a new conference made up by cherry picking the best programs from mid major conferences might be our best option. 

[johnbj14]

11 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Was SMU to the ACC also absurd? How about Stanford and Cal to the ACC?  While I would say so in all 3 cases, and while PAC-12 supporters are asking if a timeout and do over are possible, those three moves actually have happened. 

Those 3 are much bigger brands than our Billikens and have football. SLU is a basketball-only school that has struggled to win consistently in a conference that is much worse than the Big 12. SMU is an interesting case of a booster base willing to shell out absurd money for a seat at the table, but was combined with a forward thinking Athletic Department. Recent years don’t suggest we have that same ambition or willingness to spend.