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Fred Thatch using his name on the advertising to make some money off of a basketball camp for kids at the YMCA is purest example of this NIL stuff being a good thing.  Unfortunately, this will be the exception and not the rule.

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23 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Fred Thatch using his name on the advertising to make some money off of a basketball camp for kids at the YMCA is purest example of this NIL stuff being a good thing.  Unfortunately, this will be the exception and not the rule.

Why? What are the examples so far of it being a bad thing?

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Just now, Pistol said:

Why? What are the examples so far of it being a bad thing?

There are no examples yet.  Or maybe I haven't seen enough of what has happened.  I stand by my comment that Fred putting his name on a camp is an example of why some people wanted this to go through.  I have no issue with someone using their name to put some money in their pocket that way.  My issue is going to be, and this will happen, players choosing schools based on which program offers them the best package to monetize their NIL.  This will happen.  There's no doubt about it.  If you think that players making their choice about what school to attend based upon who is going to offer the best financial package is a good thing, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.  I do not see it as a good thing for college basketball.

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5 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

There are no examples yet.  Or maybe I haven't seen enough of what has happened.  I stand by my comment that Fred putting his name on a camp is an example of why some people wanted this to go through.  I have no issue with someone using their name to put some money in their pocket that way.  My issue is going to be, and this will happen, players choosing schools based on which program offers them the best package to monetize their NIL.  This will happen.  There's no doubt about it.  If you think that players making their choice about what school to attend based upon who is going to offer the best financial package is a good thing, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.  I do not see it as a good thing for college basketball.

So in other words, it will be exactly the same way it is now except it might be somewhat more visible?

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4 hours ago, Pistol said:

So in other words, it will be exactly the same way it is now except it might be somewhat more visible?

No, I think it will be much worse.  The people that did it under the table will find out legal ways to continue to do it, but legally.  However, folks that would never have wanted to offer money to college kids are now going to start offering money to the big schools.  Below is article about Miami football.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/florida-company-offers-540-k-worth-of-nil-endorsement-deals-to-all-miami-scholarship-football-players-183415305.html

You can't tell me that this won't be an incentive for kids to attend Miami that other smaller football programs aren't going to get.

I think that you believe that I'm against poor college scholarship athletes being able to make a few bucks.  I'm not.  I agree with all of the arguments about kids being able to use their names and likenesses, etc.  I just don't like what I believe it will do to college sports.  I always cheer against the big programs and for the underdog.  I cheer for mid majors in college basketball.  These rules, whether they're socially correct or not, will hurt smaller programs.  I just don't like that outcome.

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

No, I think it will be much worse.  The people that did it under the table will find out legal ways to continue to do it, but legally.  However, folks that would never have wanted to offer money to college kids are now going to start offering money to the big schools.  Below is article about Miami football.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/florida-company-offers-540-k-worth-of-nil-endorsement-deals-to-all-miami-scholarship-football-players-183415305.html

You can't tell me that this won't be an incentive for kids to attend Miami that other smaller football programs aren't going to get.

I think that you believe that I'm against poor college scholarship athletes being able to make a few bucks.  I'm not.  I agree with all of the arguments about kids being able to use their names and likenesses, etc.  I just don't like what I believe it will do to college sports.  I always cheer against the big programs and for the underdog.  I cheer for mid majors in college basketball.  These rules, whether they're socially correct or not, will hurt smaller programs.  I just don't like that outcome.

You’ll get no judgement from me @cgeldmacher. I get what you’re saying, but “mid-major” doesn’t always mean “small”. UCF in the American has 1 of the largest student bodies in the country. And I’m not sure kids are going to be willing to sit on the bench for 4 years at a blueblood just because the potential NIL opportunities may be more lucrative, when they could be starting at a mid-major, especially when every school in the country is going to have people working to find deals for their players now. I think the first few years may be a circus, but in the end, I’d bet it’s not as big of a game changer as people expect.

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It will be just like a job. Coaches will be able to tell players the average player at Alabama make $65,000 from NIL, with top players making $200,000+. If LSU players only average $45,000, with top players getting $150,000. It will be a no brainer. Go for the money especially if the player is from a low socioeconomic background.

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18 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

It will be just like a job. Coaches will be able to tell players the average player at Alabama make $65,000 from NIL, with top players making $200,000+. If LSU players only average $45,000, with top players getting $150,000. It will be a no brainer. Go for the money especially if the player is from a low socioeconomic background.

I think that will be the case for 5* and perhaps a lot of 4*, but I just don’t think kids are going to be willing to spend 4 years on the bench just because the school’s NIL deals are more lucrative. Most college athletes have dreams of playing professionally, not to just max out their potential college NIL earnings. College basketball teams have scholarship limits. And a lot of power 6 teams will be investing their money in other sports. Will the bluebloods continue to out-pay mid-majors? Probably. But there will still be plenty of really good players left.

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I see a lot of folks talking about how schools are going to line up NIL possibilities for their players.  As far as I can tell, this is completely wrong.  Schools will be forced to monitor their kids to make sure whatever they are doing is within NCAA and school guidelines.  

You've seen the Dayton letter.  Kids cannot use University of Dayton logos, game tapes, and what not.  Steve Reed of the Associated Press, did an article on the NIL Compliance dilemma that I saw in Sunday's Harrisburg (PA) Patriot News.  The AD at Davidson wrongfully said Seth Curry would have made millions at Davidson with Curry jerseys, Curry shoes, and Curry Chicken Sliders.  Not necessarily so ---- what if Davidson applies Dayton rules and says no school logos?  The jersey is out.  Baylor University, under a Texas ruling, could not have a player sign an endorsement deal with a competitor against Baylor's Nike sponsorship.  The University of Tennessee has ruled kids can sign with Under Armour and/or addidas ---- they just can't wear anything but Nike when on the filed of play.  LaVarr Arrington said he'd be on the cover of NCAA College Football on PlayStation if he had the opportunity.  Nope.  Can't wear the blue and white; can't wear #11.  These kids don't have a known persona that sells ---- Fred Thatch of Sikeston does.  However local it would be.  

And don't forget about agents and loss of NCAA eligibility.  A player can sign with someone who can help them market their NIL however the NFL has come out and said the NIL agent can never be the player agent should the kid go to the NFL.  You want to be the agent that markets for annual peanuts or the contract of a lifetime?  And we all know how trustworthy street agents are to do the right thing.  

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10 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I see a lot of folks talking about how schools are going to line up NIL possibilities for their players.  As far as I can tell, this is completely wrong.  Schools will be forced to monitor their kids to make sure whatever they are doing is within NCAA and school guidelines.  

You've seen the Dayton letter.  Kids cannot use University of Dayton logos, game tapes, and what not.  Steve Reed of the Associated Press, did an article on the NIL Compliance dilemma that I saw in Sunday's Harrisburg (PA) Patriot News.  The AD at Davidson wrongfully said Seth Curry would have made millions at Davidson with Curry jerseys, Curry shoes, and Curry Chicken Sliders.  Not necessarily so ---- what if Davidson applies Dayton rules and says no school logos?  The jersey is out.  Baylor University, under a Texas ruling, could not have a player sign an endorsement deal with a competitor against Baylor's Nike sponsorship.  The University of Tennessee has ruled kids can sign with Under Armour and/or addidas ---- they just can't wear anything but Nike when on the filed of play.  LaVarr Arrington said he'd be on the cover of NCAA College Football on PlayStation if he had the opportunity.  Nope.  Can't wear the blue and white; can't wear #11.  These kids don't have a known persona that sells ---- Fred Thatch of Sikeston does.  However local it would be.  

And don't forget about agents and loss of NCAA eligibility.  A player can sign with someone who can help them market their NIL however the NFL has come out and said the NIL agent can never be the player agent should the kid go to the NFL.  You want to be the agent that markets for annual peanuts or the contract of a lifetime?  And we all know how trustworthy street agents are to do the right thing.  

I don’t necessarily think the concern (whether I agree with it or not), is that schools, in some official capacity, will start pitching kids that they can make $100,000, but rather that some huge booster for every power 6 school will find every 5* and 4* kid and hand out $10,000 for a 1-on-1 coaching session with their son or daughter that may or may not ever actually happen, leaving mid-majors with the scraps. I think there are a few holes in this theory, though. The bluebloods will continue to do what they’ve always done. But you look at schools like Georgia or Vanderbilt, they’ve probably got boosters that could buy some pretty decent players, but they’d still be competing against better basketball programs in their own conference. These boosters are obviously filthy rich, but they’re not stupid. They want a return on their investment. There’s no point in boosters from schools like Georgia or Vanderbilt throwing around 10’s of thousands of dollars for 3 and 4* kids that otherwise might go to mid-majors, just to finish 10th in the SEC and still not make the tournament. Not when Georgia boosters could invest that same money in their top-5 football program or Vanderbilt with their top-5 baseball program. And I also find it hard to believe that a 4 or high-3* kid is going to be willing to sign with a power 6 school and sit on the bench for 4 years, just because their potential NIL earnings might be higher. A lot of these guys have dreams of playing in the NBA, they’re not going to accept a bench role just because some booster can pay them a $1,000 more. And even if they do, how quick do you think they’re gonna enter the free transfer portal when they don’t see the floor their freshman year, sitting and watching bigger name players. I think these 1st few years will probably be a circus, but then a market will develop where everyone will know who can get what and where, and college basketball will find another shaky-steady sort of balance. Of course teams will always look for loopholes to bend and break the rules, but I just don’t believe that the entire landscape of college recruiting will be dramatically altered long term.

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The schools have to be 100% hands off on this.   It is the only way they can avoid the "employer" label which would create the scenarios that would spin this whole thing out of control.   Imo this will be all on the individual athletes to arrange their own deal with 3rd parties.

The schools only concerns will be making sure there are no integrity conpromises.   I.e not fixing games, being involved in illegal or unethical activities, etc.   

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15 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

The schools have to be 100% hands off on this.   It is the only way they can avoid the "employer" label which would create the scenarios that would spin this whole thing out of control.   Imo this will be all on the individual athletes to arrange their own deal with 3rd parties.

The schools only concerns will be making sure there are no integrity conpromises.   I.e not fixing games, being involved in illegal or unethical activities, etc.   

And Carter made a good point about this a couple weeks ago, in the age of social media, certain guys are a lot better at marketing themselves, regardless of school size (TJ Hargrove says hello), where their online presence warrants NIL money just as much as their basketball talent.

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15 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

The schools have to be 100% hands off on this.   It is the only way they can avoid the "employer" label which would create the scenarios that would spin this whole thing out of control.   Imo this will be all on the individual athletes to arrange their own deal with 3rd parties.

The schools only concerns will be making sure there are no integrity conpromises.   I.e not fixing games, being involved in illegal or unethical activities, etc.   

Given that when a school gets caught doing something wrong it also usually gets hit with "lack of institutional control" sanctions expecting schools to make sure there are no integrity compromises can only end badly.

 

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34 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Given that when a school gets caught doing something wrong it also usually gets hit with "lack of institutional control" sanctions expecting schools to make sure there are no integrity compromises can only end badly.

 

Dealing with the Feds and states when it comes to employee/employer relations is a completely different ballgame then dealing with the NCAA.  Dealing with the Feds when it comes to game fixing is, also, completely different than dealing with the NCAA.

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16 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Dealing with the Feds and states when it comes to employee/employer relations is a completely different ballgame then dealing with the NCAA.  Dealing with the Feds when it comes to game fixing is, also, completely different than dealing with the NCAA.

Of course the FBI's investigations into the legal violations have all netted culprits also - of course not.  I understand your point but the bigger the fish the less chance of getting caught and paying big for it.

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Seems like a lot of you guys think some D1 college basketball player at all 300+ schools are worthy of NIL money.  I think not.  Who on our roster would have been able to gobble up the money you're talking about in the last four or so years.  Jordan Goodwin?  What about Situation 2?  Sure, there will always be guys like the Miami booster giving $6k to every player on the Miami football team.  And he'll get the school busted.  If there were Georgia and Vandy boosters described as above, don't you think they would have thought of that by now?  Still seems easier to drop the bag of money off in some secluded spot, no questions asked.  Like box and skip do.

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Seems like a lot of you guys think some D1 college basketball player at all 300+ schools are worthy of NIL money.  I think not.  Who on our roster would have been able to gobble up the money you're talking about in the last four or so years.  Jordan Goodwin?  What about Situation 2?  Sure, there will always be guys like the Miami booster giving $6k to every player on the Miami football team.  And he'll get the school busted.  If there were Georgia and Vandy boosters described as above, don't you think they would have thought of that by now?  Still seems easier to drop the bag of money off in some secluded spot, no questions asked.  Like box and skip do.

Notre Dame football is an obvious exception to your arguments above.

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2 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Seems like a lot of you guys think some D1 college basketball player at all 300+ schools are worthy of NIL money.  I think not.  Who on our roster would have been able to gobble up the money you're talking about in the last four or so years.  Jordan Goodwin?  What about Situation 2?  Sure, there will always be guys like the Miami booster giving $6k to every player on the Miami football team.  And he'll get the school busted.  If there were Georgia and Vandy boosters described as above, don't you think they would have thought of that by now?  Still seems easier to drop the bag of money off in some secluded spot, no questions asked.  Like box and skip do.

I think TJ Hargrove is the obvious answer because of his social media presence alone. A lot of college kids these days are like that. Sure, maybe there’s not a lot of people who would recognize him from his rim-rattling alley-oop dunks at Chiefetz, but I bet there’s plenty of local kids who would recognize him from his Instagram or his TikTok videos or even from his big pickup games at an outside court at some park. And that type of recognition is just as valuable to a potential “investor” as recognition on the court.

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I don't understand the vitriol for this NLI stuff.

This isn't designed to make every player a millionaire.  Its designed to give them some spending money while giving them control of their own likeness which has been exploited by major corporations and schools in the past.

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it could be set up kind of like social security where recipients have a cap on income regulating amount of $$ they get monthly. so say each schollie is 75K  per year. for example allow them to earn up to the total value of the scholarship. anything over subtracts from the total.

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7 minutes ago, almaman said:

it could be set up kind of like social security where recipients have a cap on income regulating amount of $$ they get monthly. so say each schollie is 75K  per year. for example allow them to earn up to the total value of the scholarship. anything over subtracts from the total.

then somebody has to keep track of it.   put it all on the student athlete.  imo the only monitoring of this by someone else is that there is no shenanigans with ill gotten gains or immoral activity.   if the player concerned can make a million dollars, more power to them.  just do it above board, file their taxes and stay out of trouble and definitely dont bring the school into it.   once i saw the school wasnt going to provide anything in this i couldnt care less any longer.   just keep saint louis university out of it.  that's all i want.  

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I would bet all the sports agencies are setting up NIL departments to both seek out deals for players and solicit players for exclusive rights to market their endorsements if it isn’t prohibited. Are there any sports agents on here that would care to enlighten us?

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