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I've read all 49 pages of this thread- special props to the people I like, and the people I don't like are total dumbasses.  Truly the only remarkable thing about this whole conversation (aside from Old Guy having a continuous get off my lawn episode) is that MB73 is alive and well and lurking.  Please let us hear your thoughts sir- it's been way too long.

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10 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Get back to me after you explain Trump’s rallies and golf course adventures in feb and mar. Thanks.

Did I miss where you were telling people not to go to Billikens basketball games in February? Did you go to any games in February? What leftist politicians were telling people to not go to games in February? Nancy Pelosi was hugging people in Chinatown in February...did you criticize that? You are being totally unfair and you know it.  More than 1000 died from the swine flu before Obama took any action at all...I missed your criticism of him. And people want to claim there is no politics involved? Stop being silly with the hindsight crap. No one wants people to die. There can never be reasonable discussions on this board because people don't take reasonable positions. There is no longer any good rationale for the continuation of this thread. It brings out the bitterness in all. We forget we are Billikens basketball fans.  Everyone...let it go. END THIS THREAD!

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6 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

“this is not the flu," Trump said. He said some executives with "great common sense" suggested that the U.S. "ride it out" and not do mitigation. "This is not to be ridden out."  He is finally saying that we could have as high as 2.2 million fatalities, with no mitigation.

https://apple.news/A1hKaWsvESdGOYlJukJV7lQ

Donald's normal behavior....he was the leader of it's the flu businessmen he is now discarding....wasn't long ago he tweeted the cure can't be worse than the disease ...not sure what changed his tune other than his own political survival

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My question is will the Republican Party investigate Trump’s coronavirus failure as much as they did Benghazi? Will Faux News, Limbaugh, Hannity, and the right-wing echo chamber hammer Trump for months on end the way they did Hillary with their rallying cry “Benghazi!!” ?

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9 hours ago, HenryB said:

Did I miss where you were telling people not to go to Billikens basketball games in February? Did you go to any games in February? What leftist politicians were telling people to not go to games in February? Nancy Pelosi was hugging people in Chinatown in February...did you criticize that? You are being totally unfair and you know it.  More than 1000 died from the swine flu before Obama took any action at all...I missed your criticism of him. And people want to claim there is no politics involved? Stop being silly with the hindsight crap. No one wants people to die. There can never be reasonable discussions on this board because people don't take reasonable positions. There is no longer any good rationale for the continuation of this thread. It brings out the bitterness in all. We forget we are Billikens basketball fans.  Everyone...let it go. END THIS THREAD!

 

The first case of swine flu was reported April 15, 2009. The U.S. Government declared a Public Emergency 11 days later April 26th. Two days after that Obama asked for $1.5 billion from Congress and later $9 billion to help. A $7.7 billion bill was signed in June, 2009. The Public Health Emergency was renewed July 24th and Oct 1. The first test to detect the new virus was approved April 28, 2009 by the FDA. Shipments of the new CDC test began May 1st, 2009. The WHO didn’t declare it a pandemic until June 11, 2009. (by comparison Trump declared Public Health Emergency a day after The WHO declared COVID-19 a pandemic.)

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-h1n1-swine-flu-pandemic-spin/

On February 25th, 2020 Trump tweeted that Chuck Schumer asked him to request more than $2.5 billion to prepare for COVID-19. This was a day after DT said everything was “under control” with the virus in the USA. 

31 days ago Trump said that there were 15 U.S. cases and in a few days there would be zero. 

For several weeks and months Trump was asked to invoke the Defense Production Act to help with equipment and supplies. He said no. He said that the U.S. is not a nationalized country. What Trump left out was that the Act has been used hundreds of thousands of times during his presidency. The Defense Department alone says it uses it 300,000 times a year during DT admin. DT finally invoked the Act this past weekend. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/us/politics/coronavirus-defense-production-act.html#click=https://t.co/dvyWm7HuGh

The Pentagon said today it is still sitting on a few thousand ventilators because FEMA and HHS haven’t yet given them addresses where to send them. DT said today they are “holding back” 10k ventilators despite rising death counts and ventilator shortage.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/31/politics/pentagon-ventilators/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

Captain of U.S. Air Craft Carrier pleading for DT help as COVID-19 spreads aboard.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/us/politics/coronavirus-aircraft-carrier-theodore-roosevelt.html#click=https://t.co/ulVNDTCGfc

DT has tried several times to cut CDC funding including Feb 2020, after knowing of COVID-19.

DT said last Thursday on Fox News that he did not believe NY needed 30k ventilators. Later the same day Dr. Fauci said yes NY needs them. DT later says he never said NY didn’t need 30k ventilators.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1243355519818928128

https://twitter.com/bulldoghill/status/1244317862191341569

https://twitter.com/newshour/status/1244440589069881345

 

The new spin has been impeachment distractions. By saying there has been a distraction at all, Mitch McConnell is admitting Trump’s poor response to the pandemic. Previous posts have indicated dates, timelines of DT’s words, actions, activities during February and March after impeachment conclusion at the beginning of February.

The ever changing spin today is that some governors were slow to respond. Cuomo’s response is that the Federal Government has been absent during this pandemic. Speaking of impeachment and govenors, Trump said last week to not call some specific govenors instead of others and that he was not going to help them because they were not nice enough to him. (this type of behavior of course is why he has been impeached once already)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, GBL_Bills said:

Yes, that’s literally how exponential growth works. 

Speaking of exponential growth, this is pretty crazy:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Learn about exponential math and how COVID-19 spreads (this is a must watch): <br><br>Intensive care specialist Professor Hugh Montgomery explains why this coronavirus is different from the ordinary flu. <a href="https://t.co/tF6tpaqBCR">pic.twitter.com/tF6tpaqBCR</a></p>&mdash; Vala Afshar (@ValaAfshar) <a href="https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1244039992248283138?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

but it's just like the flu!!!

 

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18 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

well then we are in agreement since president trump is the greatest president since Lincoln.

MAGA 2020

Imagine bragging about and being this proud of a moronic, racist, candy corn-looking conman, sociopath and serial adulterer, who thinks noise causes cancer and suggested we "nuke" hurricanes. Talking about a guy who used charitable funds for his own campaign, defrauded students with a sham university, bankrupted 6 hotel and casinos (plus over a dozen other business ventures),  and has made over 15,000 misleading statements or outright lies in less than 4 years. 

With respect to the economy (up until last month), Trump came in to pinch run on 3rd in 2017 yet tells everyone he hit a triple.  

SAD!

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I am going to bring up a topic about infectious disease that interests me and probably no one else, so please stop reading now if your eyes have begun glazing. The topic is the role the immune system may possibly play in causing damage to the body when it responds to an infectious disease. There is ample documentation that the paralysis and death caused by polio is due to the fact that the immune system over-reacts, causing widespread inflammatory reactions, and even turning against perfectly normal parts of the body which the immune system identifies, erroneously, as being part of the infectious process and attacking these normal tissues. The later option is what causes the paralysis associated with polio.

How about Covid? The terminal event with this virus generally occurs through ARDS with respiratory failure and death. This explains the whole hullaballo about ventilators, which is not a totally reasonable therapeutic measure, it is just a life support measure. By the time a patient gets to ventilation, they are pretty well on the way out. This is why a number of clinical studies have been started on the use of anti-inflammatories (chloroquine being one of them) in the treatment of this disease. There is another study starting now using colchicine as the anti inflammatory agent. It must be pointed out that extensive inflammation of tissues can provide a suitable area for secondary infections. Therefore the combination of antibiotics and anti-inflammatories that appear entering the testing stage.

The press release of this new study using colchicine follows. The idea behind this use of anti inflammatories is described in the following paragraph which is written in what could be called "popular immunology" terms:

"If you become infected with coronavirus, your immune system sends useful immune chemicals to the affected areas of the lungs to help fight the infection, which is good because this is how you recover from an infection.  However in some people there is an overreaction by the immune system called a “cytokine storm” causing too many immune messengers to be made. This means major parts of the body become very inflamed and they can not work properly.  The lungs become congested which causes severe breathing problems and pneumonia. The heart, liver and kidneys can also become very inflamed which can lead to serious complications, even organ failure and death.

Colchicine will be used for its anti inflammatory effects when treating COVID-19.  By reducing the excessive inflammation, it is hoped that the body’s immune system will be able to fight coronavirus, and reduce the complications of pneumonia, organ failure and death"

Yes, neither chloroquine, nor colchicine, nor antibiotics will kill the virus directly but, by reducing the inflammation and secondary infections, therapy using these agents may provide a way to allow the patient's immune system to do its work and let the body heal itself."

Comparing this therapeutic approach with the use of ventilation is interesting. Therapy with anti-inflammatories seeks to prevent the ARDS before it happens, and allow the body to heal itself in the process. None of these anti-inflammatory therapies will kill the virus but they may well allow the immune system to kill the virus. By the time you reach ARDS and require ventilation, your lungs are clogged, and possibly infected with other organisms as well, and the patient's immune system is already unable to keep the viral load down.

If you were a patient going down this road, which of the two approaches would you prefer? Mind you, if the anti-inflammatory therapy does not to work in your particular case, and the disease starts to spiral downwards you may end up receiving ventilation and life support. The use of anti-inflammatories does not rule out ventilation if and when needed. However, once the ARDS stage is reached, the prognosis is not a good one.

 

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15 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Imagine bragging about and being this proud of a moronic, racist, candy corn-looking conman, sociopath and serial adulterer, who thinks noise causes cancer and suggested we "nuke" hurricanes. Talking about a guy who used charitable funds for his own campaign, defrauded students with a sham university, bankrupted 6 hotel and casinos (plus over a dozen other business ventures),  and has made over 15,000 misleading statements or outright lies in less than 4 years. 

With respect to the economy (up until last month), Trump came in to pinch run on 3rd in 2017 yet tells everyone he hit a triple.  

SAD!

posted by a guy that likes to burn ants with magnifying glass

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1 hour ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Imagine bragging about and being this proud of a moronic, racist, candy corn-looking conman, sociopath and serial adulterer, who thinks noise causes cancer and suggested we "nuke" hurricanes. Talking about a guy who used charitable funds for his own campaign, defrauded students with a sham university, bankrupted 6 hotel and casinos (plus over a dozen other business ventures),  and has made over 15,000 misleading statements or outright lies in less than 4 years. 

With respect to the economy (up until last month), Trump came in to pinch run on 3rd in 2017 yet tells everyone he hit a triple.  

SAD!

Great. Now it seems he’s been picked off third while mugging to the crowd. 

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

I am going to bring up a topic about infectious disease that interests me and probably no one else, so please stop reading now if your eyes have begun glazing. The topic is the role the immune system may possibly play in causing damage to the body when it responds to an infectious disease. There is ample documentation that the paralysis and death caused by polio is due to the fact that the immune system over-reacts, causing widespread inflammatory reactions, and even turning against perfectly normal parts of the body which the immune system identifies, erroneously, as being part of the infectious process and attacking these normal tissues. The later option is what causes the paralysis associated with polio.

How about Covid? The terminal event with this virus generally occurs through ARDS with respiratory failure and death. This explains the whole hullaballo about ventilators, which is not a totally reasonable therapeutic measure, it is just a life support measure. By the time a patient gets to ventilation, they are pretty well on the way out. This is why a number of clinical studies have been started on the use of anti-inflammatories (chloroquine being one of them) in the treatment of this disease. There is another study starting now using colchicine as the anti inflammatory agent. It must be pointed out that extensive inflammation of tissues can provide a suitable area for secondary infections. Therefore the combination of antibiotics and anti-inflammatories that appear entering the testing stage.

The press release of this new study using colchicine follows. The idea behind this use of anti inflammatories is described in the following paragraph which is written in what could be called "popular immunology" terms:

"If you become infected with coronavirus, your immune system sends useful immune chemicals to the affected areas of the lungs to help fight the infection, which is good because this is how you recover from an infection.  However in some people there is an overreaction by the immune system called a “cytokine storm” causing too many immune messengers to be made. This means major parts of the body become very inflamed and they can not work properly.  The lungs become congested which causes severe breathing problems and pneumonia. The heart, liver and kidneys can also become very inflamed which can lead to serious complications, even organ failure and death.

Colchicine will be used for its anti inflammatory effects when treating COVID-19.  By reducing the excessive inflammation, it is hoped that the body’s immune system will be able to fight coronavirus, and reduce the complications of pneumonia, organ failure and death"

Yes, neither chloroquine, nor colchicine, nor antibiotics will kill the virus directly but, by reducing the inflammation and secondary infections, therapy using these agents may provide a way to allow the patient's immune system to do its work and let the body heal itself."

Comparing this therapeutic approach with the use of ventilation is interesting. Therapy with anti-inflammatories seeks to prevent the ARDS before it happens, and allow the body to heal itself in the process. None of these anti-inflammatory therapies will kill the virus but they may well allow the immune system to kill the virus. By the time you reach ARDS and require ventilation, your lungs are clogged, and possibly infected with other organisms as well, and the patient's immune system is already unable to keep the viral load down.

If you were a patient going down this road, which of the two approaches would you prefer? Mind you, if the anti-inflammatory therapy does not to work in your particular case, and the disease starts to spiral downwards you may end up receiving ventilation and life support. The use of anti-inflammatories does not rule out ventilation if and when needed. However, once the ARDS stage is reached, the prognosis is not a good one.

 

A cytokine storm in strong immune systems of young people is what made the second wave of Spanish Influenza so deadly.

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

I am going to bring up a topic about infectious disease that interests me and probably no one else, so please stop reading now if your eyes have begun glazing. The topic is the role the immune system may possibly play in causing damage to the body when it responds to an infectious disease. There is ample documentation that the paralysis and death caused by polio is due to the fact that the immune system over-reacts, causing widespread inflammatory reactions, and even turning against perfectly normal parts of the body which the immune system identifies, erroneously, as being part of the infectious process and attacking these normal tissues. The later option is what causes the paralysis associated with polio.

How about Covid? The terminal event with this virus generally occurs through ARDS with respiratory failure and death. This explains the whole hullaballo about ventilators, which is not a totally reasonable therapeutic measure, it is just a life support measure. By the time a patient gets to ventilation, they are pretty well on the way out. This is why a number of clinical studies have been started on the use of anti-inflammatories (chloroquine being one of them) in the treatment of this disease. There is another study starting now using colchicine as the anti inflammatory agent. It must be pointed out that extensive inflammation of tissues can provide a suitable area for secondary infections. Therefore the combination of antibiotics and anti-inflammatories that appear entering the testing stage.

The press release of this new study using colchicine follows. The idea behind this use of anti inflammatories is described in the following paragraph which is written in what could be called "popular immunology" terms:

"If you become infected with coronavirus, your immune system sends useful immune chemicals to the affected areas of the lungs to help fight the infection, which is good because this is how you recover from an infection.  However in some people there is an overreaction by the immune system called a “cytokine storm” causing too many immune messengers to be made. This means major parts of the body become very inflamed and they can not work properly.  The lungs become congested which causes severe breathing problems and pneumonia. The heart, liver and kidneys can also become very inflamed which can lead to serious complications, even organ failure and death.

Colchicine will be used for its anti inflammatory effects when treating COVID-19.  By reducing the excessive inflammation, it is hoped that the body’s immune system will be able to fight coronavirus, and reduce the complications of pneumonia, organ failure and death"

Yes, neither chloroquine, nor colchicine, nor antibiotics will kill the virus directly but, by reducing the inflammation and secondary infections, therapy using these agents may provide a way to allow the patient's immune system to do its work and let the body heal itself."

Comparing this therapeutic approach with the use of ventilation is interesting. Therapy with anti-inflammatories seeks to prevent the ARDS before it happens, and allow the body to heal itself in the process. None of these anti-inflammatory therapies will kill the virus but they may well allow the immune system to kill the virus. By the time you reach ARDS and require ventilation, your lungs are clogged, and possibly infected with other organisms as well, and the patient's immune system is already unable to keep the viral load down.

If you were a patient going down this road, which of the two approaches would you prefer? Mind you, if the anti-inflammatory therapy does not to work in your particular case, and the disease starts to spiral downwards you may end up receiving ventilation and life support. The use of anti-inflammatories does not rule out ventilation if and when needed. However, once the ARDS stage is reached, the prognosis is not a good one.

 

If anyone on this board is interested in Chloroquine, Colchicine, its effectiveness or not, shortages, (which means indicated patients taking it for approved reasons aren't getting it) important side effects, recent FDA approval for emergency use of COVID-19, ...etc...this is a good detailed article that covers it. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/30/coronavirus-drugs-hydroxychloroquin-chloroquine/

 

Michael Ackerman from the Mayo Clinic is concerned with cardiac death with its usage.

The France trial only had 14 patients. China found no improvement with it.

Anthony Fauci is skeptical of its paucity of evidence.

Lewis Schrager, Chief Medical reviewer at the FDA from 2002-2013 is skeptical.

Keep in mind Zpaks used to treat pneumonia etc..prolong heart intervals already as do these anti-malaria drugs 

All hands on deck. Many things are being tried and used to help people.

Interesting choice of words from Old Guy calling the demand and use of ventilators a "Hullabaloo" or fuss.....England (ICNARC) has reported 34% survival rate with ventilators thus far with COVID-19. (64% overall)

Medications, treatments, and vaccines are in the development process now. Until then a wide variety of treatments are being used. Whatever it takes.

 

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Am I the only person that thinks of Mark Borchardt's movie Coven when they hear Covid-19? 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vy4jdzVpCV4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Just now, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Am I the only person that thinks of March Borchardt's movie Coven when they hear Covid-19? 

I saw someone on twitter saying they always get “come on Eileen” stuck in their head after reading COVID-19 and I always think about that too now

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2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Not surprised whatsoever. The question is just how much underreporting occurred, and what the true mortality rate is in China right now. That would significantly affect the projected deaths in Italy and the U.S. We could be undershooting by a drastic amount....

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9 minutes ago, rgbilliken said:

I saw someone on twitter saying they always get “come on Eileen” stuck in their head after reading COVID-19 and I always think about that too now

This post is pure evil.

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