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Sheltiedave

Out of the starting gate

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The season has started well, which is a very pleasant surprise. We actually are in better shape than last year in some respects, although our tissue thin bigs will lead to some losses.

I have mentioned(and been taken to task) that Ford is old school in nature, and it is the old school components in this team that have driven its successes to date. We lost most of our lumber in Gordon, Foreman, and Bess, offset by Bell, and yet we are averaging 43 rebounds per game, compared to 39.8 last year, 9.1 steals to 7.1 last year, 4.1 blocks to 3.9 last year. The only step back is a bump up in turnovers, 14.3 to 12.9 last year.

Part of the uptick is the partial season vs full season, partly it is French becoming werewolf on tips and blocks, and the steals can be attributed to more active hands all the way down to the 10th/11th man on the bench. Many years of stats show collars after about the 7th man, while this year, by injury and development our final two are Hankton and Hargrove at this point - and they both are chipping in!

Notable among the old school stats are Goodwin, French, Jacobs, Collins, and Thatch at 2.4, 0.6, 1.1, 1.9, and 0.7 steals per game, respectively. This shocked me, as I knew our lesser team defense would not equal or surpass last year’s superlative efforts.

In blocks, French, Perkins, and Bell lead the way at 3, 0.7, and 0.6 blocks per game, respectively. Teams will learn not to challenge French.

In rebounds, the best illustration of team play, we have eight players averaging 2 rebounds per game. I hear echoes of Majerus screaming “Rebound!” When I look at this stat.

Along with Collins pushing the ball hard, these all add up to more possessions, and more shots, in every game. This is the motive force for a bump in our scoring average from 67.4 points per game last year to 72.7 points this year.

A couple final notes before tossing out the selective raw stats...French is hitting at a 54.4% FG rate, Bell is at 36%. Bell needs to go straight up with a baby hook or strength move, not a pump fake or dribble move. He is being blocked because he doesn’t have a feel for space yet.

Secondly, Goodwin’s apg has dropped from 3.4 last year to 2.4 this year. He can reverse this trend by taking a couple elbow jumpers ala Perkins and Jimerson. Ford can help by training Jacobs and Jimerson never to stand still in 3 pt land for more that 3 seconds. Have one cut baseline on Goodwin’s hind side, and the other slide north or south along the three pt arc on his fore side. Create options for an assist rather than just standing around as his cape billows.

And the stats Pts..rbds..assts..trnovrs

Goodwin   16.1,  9.1,  2.4,  2.7

French       14.4,  10.6, 1.9, 2.4

Jimerson  10.1,  1.9,   1.0,  1

Jacobs       6.9,   2.3,   0.6,  0.9

Perkins       6.3,   3.6,   0.7,  1

Collins        5,      3.3,    6.4,  3.9

Thatch        4.8,  3.5,    0.3,   0.7

Weaver       3.7,  1.4,    0.7,   0.3

Bell              2.7,  3,       0.3,   1

Like all stats, these are best analyzed for trends, strengths, and guesses, not absolutes. Ford has managed to switch coaching styles in part fro a star system to a roving constellation of individual game stars, to his credit.

 

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God stuff @Sheltiedave  One stat you didn’t list was mpg. I find it interesting that we have 9 averaging double digit minutes and one more sitting at 9.0.  
One thing I will be watching is, hopefully without a player being injured, will Ford shorten his rotation. Goodwin is tops on the mpg list at 31. Even he can handle more. We aren’t playing a havoc style defense so I am not seeing many players asking for a blow. As the season progresses, will Ford fine tune his rotation as he sees how players interact with each other?  

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Sheltiedave, I really like the way you separate "old stats" from what I would call "dynamic trends".

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Last year it took awhile for things to gel. Isabel and JGood did not look comfortable on the floor together until the very end. That hurt us and caused a lot of early tight games against teams we should have blown away. No such discord appears to exist between JGood and Collins because Yuri defers to JGood, as he should. As big a fan as I am of Yurimania, this team goes through JGood and French in that order. Yes, I believe Yuri makes the train run better, but make no mistake JGood is the engineer. He's coming into his own right before our eyes. 

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To be honest, SLU72, Goodwin needs to grow the jump shot part of his game. Every year in college ball, and especially if you want to play after college, you need to grow a new aspect of your game that will benefit the team. 

Goodwin really needs that midrange jumper in his tool bag, so he is a more versatile weapon. I get he is averaging a double double and is a leader, but he needs this additional skill to make us better. Getting better drives everyone even higher.

Bess had no chance for the NBA with his junior year skill set. He added the 3 pt shot, and now he is in the NBDL, one or two players away from his dream. Goodwin can do the same if he adds a tool a year, and tweaks the ones he has.

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

God stuff @Sheltiedave  One stat you didn’t list was mpg. I find it interesting that we have 9 averaging double digit minutes and one more sitting at 9.0.  
One thing I will be watching is, hopefully without a player being injured, will Ford shorten his rotation. Goodwin is tops on the mpg list at 31. Even he can handle more. We aren’t playing a havoc style defense so I am not seeing many players asking for a blow. As the season progresses, will Ford fine tune his rotation as he sees how players interact with each other?  

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1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

To be honest, SLU72, Goodwin needs to grow the jump shot part of his game. Every year in college ball, and especially if you want to play after college, you need to grow a new aspect of your game that will benefit the team. 

Goodwin really needs that midrange jumper in his tool bag, so he is a more versatile weapon. I get he is averaging a double double and is a leader, but he needs this additional skill to make us better. Getting better drives everyone even higher.

Bess had no chance for the NBA with his junior year skill set. He added the 3 pt shot, and now he is in the NBDL, one or two players away from his dream. Goodwin can do the same if he adds a tool a year, and tweaks the ones he has.

I agree totally. He could actually be our Dwayne Evans if he had that mid range jumper. He doesn't really need to be a 3 sniper, be nice but not necessary, but the little base line jumper or one from the elbow would really up his game. 

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HoosierPal, I stayed away from the mpg in part because that is the back end of this conversation, and because it simplifies the front end talking points.

Ford is also an old school coach because minutes pivot off of his demands for defense, rebounding, and more defense. When he doesn’t have a great offensive team, he wants and emphasizes great defense.

He is capable of squeezing effective minutes out of a deep bench, and this season will play out as our defense goes in generating extra possessions.

I would wager every game we do not win in the possessions column, and in the cumulative points in paint from French + Goodwin vs oppt, we will lose.

 

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If Goodwin can keep shooting almost 38% from three, he has a legitimate shot to play at the next level. I don’t think people realize exactly how good Goodwin has been so far this season.

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Brian, two obvious points...everyone realizes how good Goodwin is, and he needs to triple his volume of threes per game for the NBA to begin to notice.

He will not make the NBA as a pg, so he needs to be a prolific shooter, and improve his handle to stick as a sg.

He is not flying under anyone’s radar.

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21 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Brian, two obvious points...everyone realizes how good Goodwin is, and he needs to triple his volume of threes per game for the NBA to begin to notice.

He will not make the NBA as a pg, so he needs to be a prolific shooter, and improve his handle to stick as a sg.

He is not flying under anyone’s radar.

Goodwin should continue to do what he is currently doing. He does what it takes for his team to win and plays to his strengths.  His pro career will take care of its self.

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If I remember correctly, Goodwin had 2 really good turnaround jumpers off the glass fueling the big run against BC.  Does that not count bc they aren’t swishes like MJ?

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1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

Brian, two obvious points...everyone realizes how good Goodwin is, and he needs to triple his volume of threes per game for the NBA to begin to notice.

He will not make the NBA as a pg, so he needs to be a prolific shooter, and improve his handle to stick as a sg.

He is not flying under anyone’s radar.

Sounds exactly what they said about the rest of us.  Goodwin will make the NBA if he turns into something he is not!

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All he needs to do for me is play with the gusto and spirit he has from day one for rest of his career and avoid injury.

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3 hours ago, slu72 said:

I agree totally. He could actually be our Dwayne Evans if he had that mid range jumper. He doesn't really need to be a 3 sniper, be nice but not necessary, but the little base line jumper or one from the elbow would really up his game. 

Be our Dwayne Evans? Why do we want Goodwin to be our Dwayne Evans? I don't want Goodwin to be our Dwayne Evans, I want him to be a better version of Javon Bess and I believe by the time his career is over he will be.

Of course being able to hit the midrange jumper and the 3 at a decent rate are both nice, but if I could only have one I'll take the 3. 

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2 hours ago, brianstl said:

If Goodwin can keep shooting almost 38% from three, he has a legitimate shot to play at the next level. I don’t think people realize exactly how good Goodwin has been so far this season.

There is a difference between shooting an open 3 when left open to keep the defense honest and regularly making a 3 pointer as part of the offense - especially when guarded and when the other team knows you will attempting a 3 pointer. 

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3 hours ago, brianstl said:

If Goodwin can keep shooting almost 38% from three, he has a legitimate shot to play at the next level. I don’t think people realize exactly how good Goodwin has been so far this season.

What I like about Goodwin is that he’s really not a natural scorer, but he’s doing a tremendous job picking his spots and knowing he does need to score on this team. It wouldn’t surprise me if his usage rate drops a little next year when we have more developed options. 

I also like that Jordan has really improved on multiple facets of his offensive game, not just one area. His ballhandling, finishing and 3-pt shooting are all markedly improved. Hopefully the free throws come next... but who knows with that.

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20 hours ago, brianstl said:

If Goodwin can keep shooting almost 38% from three, he has a legitimate shot to play at the next level. I don’t think people realize exactly how good Goodwin has been so far this season.

Goodwin "locked in". Link here

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1 minute ago, moytoy12 said:

Goodwin "locked in". Link here

Glad they included some details about the convo with Marcus Smart, who by the way has a career fg% of 37% and a career 3pt% of 31%.  Of course, Smart also has a career FT% of 77%

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JGood and MSmart talking about their similar games is a good thing. Hope JGood took note of MSmart's little step back jumper to ice the Celt's win the night he was there. Something for JGood to work on a little. That would just add some ammo to his arsenal. 

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I am curious how one increases his apg by taking more shots, particularly elbow jumpers ala Perkins and Jimmmerson?  

Also, could it be our uptick in those first few stats is due to an uptick in tempo?  Take more shots, get more offensive rebounds?  Increase our steals due to increasing our defensive tempo?  Increasing our turnovers due to the same?

This year Ford has a full compliment of players.  He had that in the past; his players have all had pretty mad skills.  Henriquez.  Bishop.  Santos.  Graves.  Gordon. Johnson.  Isabell.  Bess.  Many never made the floor due to suspensions and dismissals.  The uptick is personnel, not style, old school or new school.  

And the real key is the on going leadership and development by both French and Goodwin.  Both could still use a midrange jumper and FT shooting prowess to get even better.

 

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TAj, while Collins is extremely effective gaining dribble penetrations, Goodwin is not. Goodwin is fairly effective playing in the wrinkle zone inside the guards, but in front of forwards/center. If he gets that elbow jumper going, he will always draw help, leaving an open void area to his right, generally.

Goodwin has great court sense, and while attacking help defense, he can do the kick out, the slip pass under, or hit the baseline cutter. With Jimerson, French, and Perkins, he has three options that love to shoot and attack the basket.
Goodwin knows how to slip and slither for rebounds, putbacks, and layups. He and Ford need to train the others up on his slithering skills so they too can drink deep on easy buckets. It is coming soon, to a Chaifetz arena.

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1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

TAj, while Collins is extremely effective gaining dribble penetrations, Goodwin is not.

dave this is ridiculous.  goodwin is the best dribble penetrator since jett.   considering your wierd goodwin "observations" in the last few months, i can only surmise you hate jordan goodwin.  too bad you are blind to his skills and contributions.   you are missing a great billiken career.  

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24 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

dave this is ridiculous.  goodwin is the best dribble penetrator since jett.   considering your wierd goodwin "observations" in the last few months, i can only surmise you hate jordan goodwin.  too bad you are blind to his skills and contributions.   you are missing a great billiken career.  

Goodwin wears a number of hats for us but being an awesome dribble penetrator isn't one of them. Frankly the best dribble penetrator we've had since Jett was Isabell and he wasn't even a particularly good dribbler.

Goodwin's numbers are up this because his all-around offensive game is better not because he is consistently breaking down defenders off the dribble. We're getting exactly the player Taj demanded, save for the free throw shooting.

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Roy, I’ll choose to disregard your off Base analysis of why I am blind to Goodwin. I don’t need to sing his praises to the choir; both he and French are once a decade players.

What I(and others) realize is that if we don’t grow their supporting cast to best develop their talents, we won’t make the dance this year or next year. Majerus was willing to sacrifice Lisch and Liddell to implement his system whole hog, both Ford need not do the same.
Last year, once Isabell got his head back on his shoulders, he was our dribble penetrator.

Goodwin has the best sense of when and how to finish. He is our best small finisher since Donnie Dobbs. If Bell had Goodwin’s sense of space, he would have 10 ppg.

I do agree with you that Collins cannot finish like Goodwin at the rim, because he cannot body up on guards and forwards.

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