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gobillsgo

Good recruiter, bad coach?

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Not trying to overreact to this game. But it should’ve been a win. SIU is not a good team. Not terrible, but they’re certainly not good. Our team wasn’t ready to go after Saturday’s emotional win.

 

When Ford was hired, we heard from a lot of OK State fans that Ford was a great recruiter but bad in game coach.  He gets a pass the first two years because the depth and talent weren’t there. But this year we have one of our deepest and most talented teams ever. Offense has been atrocious. There are no in-game adjustments. Our chance at an at large bid is swirling around the toilet bowl ready to disappear. I thought we were going to play up tempo?? 

Again, not trying to overreact, especially after Saturday’s good win. But are we seeing that the Oklahoma St. fans may have had a good point?  I think we are. Hope Ford proves me wrong the rest of the way out. 

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2 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Not trying to overreact to this game. But it should’ve been a win. SIU is not a good team. Not terrible, but they’re certainly not good. Our team wasn’t ready to go after Saturday’s emotional win.

 

When Ford was hired, we heard from a lot of OK State fans that Ford was a great recruiter but bad in game coach.  He gets a pass the first two years because the depth and talent weren’t there. But this year we have one of our deepest and most talented teams ever. Offense has been atrocious. There are no in-game adjustments. Our chance at an at large bid is swirling around the toilet bowl ready to disappear. I thought we were going to play up tempo?? 

Again, not trying to overreact, especially after Saturday’s good win. But are we seeing that the Oklahoma St. fans may have had a good point?  I think we are. Hope Ford proves me wrong the rest of the way out. 

I want to give you a troll reaction. But I respect the real life you so I won't. Everyone relax this was an experienced SIU team. Let's see how we do in the next few games. But ya....

PLEASE PLAY FASTER 

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The fact that he left isabell in that 2nd half as long as he did makes me question things.  Isabell is just doing whatever Isabell does half-assed and he gets a ton of minutes.  Jgood or Jacobs make one mistake and they are yanked for large parts of the game. Horrible statement to make to the team.  

Next, where is the improvement in our offense through 8 games? I don’t expect it to be perfect but I expect it to be better than game 1. 

This gets to a more basic question raised by the OP, what tf is our offense?  Does anyone know? 

Not saying we should fire ford but there are legitimate questions to be asked.

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5 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

I want to give you a troll reaction. But I respect the real life you so I won't. Everyone relax this was an experienced SIU team. Let's see how we do in the next few games. But ya....

PLEASE PLAY FASTER 

Give me all the reactions! No such thing as bad press. 🤑

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7 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

I want to give you a troll reaction. But I respect the real life you so I won't. Everyone relax this was an experienced SIU team. Let's see how we do in the next few games. But ya....

PLEASE PLAY FASTER 

There are plenty of legitimate questions to ask, that's all.

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15 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

The fact that he left isabell in that 2nd half as long as he did makes me question things.  Isabell is just doing whatever Isabell does half-assed and he gets a ton of minutes.  Jgood or Jacobs make one mistake and they are yanked for large parts of the game. Horrible statement to make to the team.  

Next, where is the improvement in our offense through 8 games? I don’t expect it to be perfect but I expect it to be better than game 1. 

This gets to a more basic question raised by the OP, what tf is our offense?  Does anyone know? 

Not saying we should fire ford but there are legitimate questions to be asked.

Supposedly SIU-C is a decent defensive team with experience. They look the-art tonight. On the road with our best player on a hobbled ankle. Sucks to lose but not that terrible of a loss. Effective In game adjustments are lacking from many head coaches. That was on of my favorite things about RM.

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I think we should wait until the end of the season to consider the conclusion of the original post (well, the title).  The past two years the team has demonstrated considerable progress from beginning to end; let's give this team the same opportunity.

It's still a young team and they have little experience together.  Rough patches can be expected and should be forgiven... for now.

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3 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I think we should wait until the end of the season to consider the conclusion of the original post (well, the title).  The past two years the team has demonstrated considerable progress from beginning to end; let's give this team the same opportunity.

It's still a young team and they have little experience together.  Rough patches can be expected and should be forgiven... for now.

Undetermined for SLU whether coach Ford is a good recruiter bad coach.

His body of work for the first two seasons was solid as a coach.

Coach Ford looks a lot smarter as a coach with a healthy Bess and Wiley and this thread does not exist because more than likely we are undefeated with both of those guys healthy.

No doubt with a healthy Bess we score enough to win last night and this thread probably does not exist.

JGood's play has been troubling and it is not Isabell's fault, Isabell is just the fall guy that everyone is locked in on because he has not played as a senior should at times.  JGood's free throw shooting and turnovers is troubling.

For those that want to bench Isabell he had 3 assists and 2 turnovers he missed a lot of shots but so did everyone else on the team.  Isabell was over hyped and has under delivered at times but I am glad he is on the team and coach Ford has had only a few months to figure out his best fit and he needs to make an adjustment but not on the bench we need scoring.

DJ was a total disaster last night with 4 turnovers 1-4 shooting and one rebound, coach Ford looks a whole lot smarter if Luis Santos is playing those minutes.

The turnovers and the offensive play is troubling and no fun to watch right now but it sure beats the last 4 seasons we have watched.

This thread blows, it does not surprise me based on what I read in the GDT but the question of the thread does not get answered for a few more seasons not this season after two good coaching seasons.

Time to bounce back and beat Oregon State and I look forward to a better game.

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19 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Undetermined for SLU whether coach Ford is a good recruiter bad coach.

His body of work for the first two seasons was solid as a coach.

Coach Ford looks a lot smarter as a coach with a healthy Bess and Wiley and this thread does not exist because more than likely we are undefeated with both of those guys healthy.

No doubt with a healthy Bess we score enough to win last night and this thread probably does not exist.

JGood's play has been troubling and it is not Isabell's fault, Isabell is just the fall guy that everyone is locked in on because he has not played as a senior should at times.  JGood's free throw shooting and turnovers is troubling.

For those that want to bench Isabell he had 3 assists and 2 turnovers he missed a lot of shots but so did everyone else on the team.  Isabell was over hyped and has under delivered at times but I am glad he is on the team and coach Ford has had only a few months to figure out his best fit and he needs to make an adjustment but not on the bench we need scoring.

DJ was a total disaster last night with 4 turnovers 1-4 shooting and one rebound, coach Ford looks a whole lot smarter if Luis Santos is playing those minutes.

The turnovers and the offensive play is troubling and no fun to watch right now but it sure beats the last 4 seasons we have watched.

This thread blows, it does not surprise me based on what I read in the GDT but the question of the thread does not get answered for a few more seasons not this season after two good coaching seasons.

Time to bounce back and beat Oregon State and I look forward to a better game.

Easy mate, just asking the question. Think it’s fair to ask after the offense we’ve see this season.  

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22 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Easy mate, just asking the question. Think it’s fair to ask after the offense we’ve see this season.  

Free speech is always fair but I respectfully disagree with the thread questioning coach Ford at this time is all.

The fans are overreacting in my opinion and @slufan13 is a perfect example by giving me a troll post.  You may not like what I wrote so bad post me if you but I not trolling a thread or a poster on this site I just think the body of work of coach Ford is incomplete.

You have always been a good poster on this site and that is why respectfully posted my opinion and did not use any reactions to your post.

It is all good and there are better days ahead for Billiken basketball and look forward to every game and miss it when the season is over.

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4 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Free speech is always fair but I respectfully disagree with the thread questioning coach Ford at this time is all.

The fans are overreacting in my opinion and @slufan13 is a perfect example by giving me a troll post.  You may not like what I wrote so bad post me if you but I not trolling a thread or a poster on this site I just think the body of work of coach Ford is incomplete.

You have always been a good poster on this site and that is why respectfully posted my opinion and did not use any reactions to your post.

It is all good and there are better days ahead for Billiken basketball and look forward to every game and miss it when the season is over.

I actually meant to give you a bad post rather than a troll post but same thing honestly.

We are a much better team than we played last night, but if you can't see significant concerns with this team on the offensive end through the first 8 games, you have not actually been watching it. 

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1 hour ago, CBFan said:

Undetermined for SLU whether coach Ford is a good recruiter bad coach.

His body of work for the first two seasons was solid as a coach.

Coach Ford looks a lot smarter as a coach with a healthy Bess and Wiley and this thread does not exist because more than likely we are undefeated with both of those guys healthy.

No doubt with a healthy Bess we score enough to win last night and this thread probably does not exist.

JGood's play has been troubling and it is not Isabell's fault, Isabell is just the fall guy that everyone is locked in on because he has not played as a senior should at times.  JGood's free throw shooting and turnovers is troubling.

For those that want to bench Isabell he had 3 assists and 2 turnovers he missed a lot of shots but so did everyone else on the team.  Isabell was over hyped and has under delivered at times but I am glad he is on the team and coach Ford has had only a few months to figure out his best fit and he needs to make an adjustment but not on the bench we need scoring.

DJ was a total disaster last night with 4 turnovers 1-4 shooting and one rebound, coach Ford looks a whole lot smarter if Luis Santos is playing those minutes.

The turnovers and the offensive play is troubling and no fun to watch right now but it sure beats the last 4 seasons we have watched.

This thread blows, it does not surprise me based on what I read in the GDT but the question of the thread does not get answered for a few more seasons not this season after two good coaching seasons.

Time to bounce back and beat Oregon State and I look forward to a better game.

Someone reacted Troll to this post? Really? Any chance you could explain?  Saw the explanation that came later.

However, I'm not sure how it could even be labeled a bad post? Give me one too then as I'm in almost complete agreement with this post. TFord took almost nothing and coached it to a top half A10 finish last year. We were all jumping up and down and yelling from the rafters what a great hire he was. Maybe, just maybe things are going on that you don't see. Maybe he did give them in game instructions and they weren't able to carry them out. I'm 100% sure he's worked on correcting the fast break problem but it's not happening. Coach or players fault? Losses like this happen in college basketball and they happened to RM also. On the road against a good team with our probable 1st guard off the bench injured. Our best player is hobbled and our 2 best players (one a transfer from Nova and the other a top 60 recruit that this coach overcame big odds to get) go 5-23 from the field, 3 for 15 from 3, and get to the line 3 times for the entire game. Do you think coach didn't try to have them ready? Didn't talk to them about how tough a game this would be? How not to get too high from the big win as the season goes on  and we don't want to lose the momentum we're building? He has said the players aren't getting the offense and he was simplifying it. However, they still don't get it. Coach or player? Put me in the 75% player camp

My disagreement with the post concerns Isabell and his fit. His game is give me the ball and everyone else get the f..k out of my way. Problem is he just isn't good enough to carry a team and it's too disruptive to what the rest of the team is trying to do. He's not a pg. He's just not. He can make a decent pass sometimes a pretty slick one. He makes no one else better though and that's what a good pg does. 

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This game turned out just as I feared. It wasn't a trap game as SIU is a decent team. It was a road game, coming off a sugar high of beating Butler, Bess not at full speed (this should concern us going forward), and SIU hot to beat the rival team getting all the ink this season. Still, our offense does seem totally effed up. I don't know what the problem is but am reluctant to say Travis Ford is a lousy coach but marvelous recruiter. It's still a new team on the floor. Give them some room. Let's put off judgement until about mid January.

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Here is an interesting stat, maybe coaching related maybe not.  Through 8 games Gordon has only 28 rebounds, total.  Average 3.5 per game.  That's 6th on the squad.  Last night Bess grabbed 15, better than half of Gordon's total for 8. Gordon's running mate, French, has 61.  It is also noted that the team is +7.2, so it isn't like we have a rebounding deficit.

Seems to be a very low total for an interior starting player.  Now, the scheme could be, Gordon you block out your big and let Bess/Goodwin grab the board, or maybe it isn't.

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1 hour ago, CBFan said:

Free speech is always fair but I respectfully disagree with the thread questioning coach Ford at this time is all.

The fans are overreacting in my opinion and @slufan13 is a perfect example by giving me a troll post.  You may not like what I wrote so bad post me if you but I not trolling a thread or a poster on this site I just think the body of work of coach Ford is incomplete.

You have always been a good poster on this site and that is why respectfully posted my opinion and did not use any reactions to your post.

It is all good and there are better days ahead for Billiken basketball and look forward to every game and miss it when the season is over.

I enjoy your posts as well. Again, I’m not saying I definitely think Ford is a bad coach.  But it’s fair to start asking questions based on the offense we have seen so far, in my opinion. We can agree to disagree on this point. 

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10 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

Not trying to overreact to this game. But it should’ve been a win. SIU is not a good team. Not terrible, but they’re certainly not good. Our team wasn’t ready to go after Saturday’s emotional win.

 

When Ford was hired, we heard from a lot of OK State fans that Ford was a great recruiter but bad in game coach.  He gets a pass the first two years because the depth and talent weren’t there. But this year we have one of our deepest and most talented teams ever. Offense has been atrocious. There are no in-game adjustments. Our chance at an at large bid is swirling around the toilet bowl ready to disappear. I thought we were going to play up tempo?? 

Again, not trying to overreact, especially after Saturday’s good win. But are we seeing that the Oklahoma St. fans may have had a good point?  I think we are. Hope Ford proves me wrong the rest of the way

Remember.... the Vegas line had us losing by 3-4.... I don't think a loss by 5 makes Ford a bad coach.... especially since he won 2 games that he was expected to lose by much more.... Don't blame Ford....

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When your starting 3 guards go a combined 8 for 33 it's tough to win. I don't care what your offense game plan is. Our leading scorer was 1-10. 

If I would blame anything on Ford is that he didn't recruit enough shooters for this year. On the postgame show he said that a couple kids have been sick and with the injuries they didn't have enough players to prepare and practice as hard as he would have wanted.

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6 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

I enjoy your posts as well. Again, I’m not saying I definitely think Ford is a bad coach.  But it’s fair to start asking questions based on the offense we have seen so far, in my opinion. We can agree to disagree on this point. 

Then it should also be fair to start thinking about whether we should have recruited Goodwin. Forget last year and lets just concentrate on the few games this year. This is obviously sarcasm I doubt anyone thinks it's fair to start questioning whether or not we should have recruited Goodwin after 8 games into the season. However, it's fair to question whether or not coach is a good coach 8 games in. Anyone think we'd be in this position 2 yrs 8 games into TFords time at SLU?

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I don't blame Ford for the loss.  If I can blame him for anything it is for not seeing much progression on turning all the new faces into a team on offense.  He certainly deserves credit for holding things together last year but getting the right players on the floor at the right time was not much of a concern as the choices were so limited. 

At this point I'd trade Hines for Isabell and give the keys back to Goodwin.  Hines was a chucker with limited court vision but he was a better point guard than Isabell. 

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9 minutes ago, slusam said:

If I would blame anything on Ford is that he didn't recruit enough shooters for this year. 

We do have a bunch of prolific scorers but not great shooters......Hopefully Hankton and Thor can get it together defensively enough to get their shooting selves on the floor

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Honestly I am tired of SLU basketball not being an unquestionably good team. That's really it. I don't know who or what to blame but I don't like it. 

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2 hours ago, CBFan said:

 

For those that want to bench Isabell he had 3 assists and 2 turnovers he missed a lot of shots but so did everyone else on the team.  Isabell was over hyped and has under delivered at times but I am glad he is on the team and coach Ford has had only a few months to figure out his best fit and he needs to make an adjustment but not on the bench we need scoring.

The turnovers and the offensive play is troubling and no fun to watch right now but it sure beats the last 4 seasons we have watched.

Isabell’s negative impact is so much more than just looking at the assist to turnover ratio. Bad shots, lazy turnovers, hero ball, poor defense, etc. Yet, he seemingly gets a total pass from Ford for these things.

Is the offense really better than the last 4 seasons? I’m not so sure. 

We started the 2nd half relatively well.  Why? Because we pounded the ball inside.  Jgood goes to the bench and we start jacking up three pointers for most of the rest of the half.  That’s on the coach. 

Why is French handling the ball so much around the foul line? Why, when we’re a poor shooting team are we jacking up so many threes? Why are our guys throwing so many bad bounce passes on a fast break? Why can’t we get in good position when running a fast break? What is the purpose of our weave offense (on another note, I’m surprised our bigs don’t get called for more travels during the weave)? We couldn’t shoot last year, yet JGood was able to attack the hoop, what’s changed this year? Why was French in at the end of the game against Pitt? How are we so poor against a press? 

There is certainly poor execution from our players, but they’re also not being put in positions to succeed on the offensive side.

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