Carte'Are Gordon top#3 Mid Major Recruit

[TheA_Bomb]

https://bustingbrackets.com/2018/09/16/ncaa-basketball-recruiting-top-10-mid-major-recruits-2018-19/amp/9/

 

Someone let these guys know SLU isn't a mid-major.

[Taj79]

How do you define it?  I got high-, mid- and low-major.  I'm pretty sure we're not a low-major.  And I'm pretty sure we're not a high-major. As long as we develop consistency and sustainability and win, I don't really care what they call us.

[gobillsgo]

Any publication that mentions Bess and French but not Goodwin loses all credibility instantly. 

 

Goodwin will be A10 player of the year if they haven’t already awarded it to Grady by mid November. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

43 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

How do you define it?  I got high-, mid- and low-major.  I'm pretty sure we're not a low-major.  And I'm pretty sure we're not a high-major. As long as we develop consistency and sustainability and win, I don't really care what they call us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major

Quote

Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences" (the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12, and SEC), the Big East, the American, the Atlantic 10, and the Mountain West. These conferences are sometimes referred to as "high majors" by comparison.

So, the A-10 is not mid-major.

[slu72]

Has  the no 1 crushed a backboard yet? Until he does Gordon's #1. 

[Glorydays2013]

3 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major

So, the A-10 is not mid-major.

A10 maybe when Xavier and Butler were in it.

Also since when has anyone ever thought of the mountain west as a high major?

[Glorydays2013]

SLU is a high major in a mid major conference. Saying the A10 is mid major is not an insult, its a fact of the state of it right now. 

Since schools have converged into conferences with power programs together, places like the A10 and MVC have been poached leaving them far weaker conferences. Its just a fact.

You cannot put the A10 and the B10 or SEC on the same category. 

However SLU can fit into a better conference like the Big East quite well

[billikenfan05]

5 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

SLU is a high major in a mid major conference. Saying the A10 is mid major is not an insult, its a fact of the state of it right now. 

Since schools have converged into conferences with power programs together, places like the A10 and MVC have been poached leaving them far weaker conferences. Its just a fact.

You cannot put the A10 and the B10 or SEC on the same category. 

However SLU can fit into a better conference like the Big East quite well

Wut? 

[NextYearBill]

the next time somebody brings up the Big East im deleting my account 

[Taj79]

Why thank you for the infallible Wiki definition.  But the definition is on conferences, not teams.  A-bomb said "SLU is not mid-major."  So therefore it is a high-major or a low-major.  We would never admit to being low-major so that leaves one term.  And I don't agree with that.

Now, even if I agree with the definition, I would offer that just because some teams are in a P5 conference, that in and of itself does not make them high-major either.  Nebraska, Penn State, Northwestern, Pitt, Boston College, Colorado all come to mind.  They are not Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Kentucky, etc.  They just play them on TV. 

[billiken_roy]

dont you all think we need a period of sustained success before we can legitimately cry about being mid major or not being in a certain conference?   personally, i think the A-10 and mid major label is about right for us if you consider our uneven history of success.   

[Glorydays2013]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

dont you all think we need a period of sustained success before we can legitimately cry about being mid major or not being in a certain conference?   personally, i think the A-10 and mid major label is about right for us if you consider our uneven history of success.   

exactly. Littlebill and billikenrich can mope all they want.

I agree with Taj, a school in a p5 conference doesnt make it a high major program. Just because SLU is in a mid major conference doesnt mean it is a mid major team

[Billiken Rich]

Nearly everyone and certainly everyone claiming to be a fan of the A10 rank things thusly:  Power 5, AAC and the A10, and everyone else.  Everyone who can, without generating guffaws of laughter, struggles to throw off or avoid the derisive and dismissive label of mid-major.    

[billiken_roy]

As much as it disappoints, imo we are not a major program.   we got a lot of winning to do before we can even think about calling ourselves such.   

[Brighton]

I don't think anyone claimed otherwise.

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

As much as it disappoints, imo we are not a major program.   we got a lot of winning to do before we can even think about calling ourselves such.   

The issue here isn't is SLU a major program or not.  The issue is if the A-10 is a major conference or not.  Since the last round of major conference realignment and the creation of the new Big East, the A-10 has averaged 3.6 tournament bids a year.  Here is the breakdown in that time period for the A-10, AAC, new Big East, Pac-12 and SEC.

Big East-5.6

SEC-4.8

PAC12-4.8

A10-3.6

AAC-3.0

Now the A10 isn't exactly one of the power conferences, but it really isn't that far off the SEC and the PAC12.  It is clearly batter than the next group which includes the Mountain West 1.8, WCC 1.6, and MVC 1.4.

The MW, MVC, and WCC probably best fit the label of mid major.  I think the A10 and AAC fall into the high major category (IMO), but are definitely not a power conference.  Every other conference has been a one bid league every year since the last round of realignment and is a low major.

[GBL_Bills]

11 minutes ago, brianstl said:

The issue here isn't is SLU a major program or not.  The issue is if the A-10 is a major conference or not.  Since the last round of major conference realignment and the creation of the new Big East, the A-10 has averaged 3.6 tournament bids a year.  Here is the breakdown in that time period for the A-10, AAC, new Big East, Pac-12 and SEC.

Big East-5.6

SEC-4.8

PAC12-4.8

A10-3.6

AAC-3.0

Now the A10 isn't exactly one of the power conferences, but it really isn't that far off the SEC and the PAC12.  It is clearly batter than the next group which includes the Mountain West 1.8, WCC 1.6, and MVC 1.4.

The MW, MVC, and WCC probably best fit the label of mid major.  I think the A10 and AAC fall into the high major category (IMO), but are definitely not a power conference.  Every other conference is has been a one bid league every year since the last round of realignment and is a low major.

I was slightly skeptical of using Tourny bids as a way to determine, but it worked out pretty well honestly when compared to Sagarin's conference rankings (https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/2018/conference/).

Pomeroy's is behind a paywall.

[Pistol]

I hate hate hate the terms "high-major", "mid-major", and "low-major". For one, calling everything "major" is just weird to me. But more importantly, I think they're lazy, outdated shorthand for which too many programs and/or conferences don't fit well enough to make them meaningful.

The real stratification in college basketball is between the conferences that have BCS-level football and those that don't. However, you have to split these into the six Automatic Qualifying conferences that have actually have powerful, profitable programs - SEC, ACC, Big Ten, Big XII, Pac 12, and (somehow) American. The economics of athletic programs within these conferences is WAY different than for every other conference. Football revenues can be huge, and they get funneled into general athletic programs in a way that makes them more competitive across the board.

In basketball, take those conferences and add the Big East, which has decades of basketball power history and a lucrative TV deal with FSN, and you have 7 "high-major" conferences.

Except the individual programs within those conferences don't get tagged as "high-major" by all writers. Like the bottom half of the American, with programs like Tulane, East Carolina, South Florida, Tulsa, and Central Florida. And what about programs in power conferences that have never been good at basketball (or haven't in a really long time), like Nebraska, Northwestern, and Oregon State?

Especially when you compare those to truly "major" programs like Gonzaga and UNLV. If a school like Gonzaga, one of the most successful of the modern era of college basketball, is in a conference with Pepperdine and Portland and Pacific, does it still have to be "mid-major"? What do you do with St. Mary's? And what about the Mountain West? With UNLV, Nevada (which will be one of the best teams in basketball this season), San Diego State, and New Mexico, this conference strikes me as a little too strong to be called "mid-major".

Another big problem I have with these terms is the line between "mid-major" and "low-major", which never gets talked about. If people are calling the A10 and the Valley and the West Coast Conference "mid-major", where does the next level begin? Is it just one-bid conferences vs. multi-bid conferences at this point? Because in reality, it's getting harder to be a multi-bid conference unless you're in the top 7. We all know if things break wrong in the A10, it can happen. Same goes for the MWC and everyone else that isn't in a protected power conference. So where's the line between them?

tl;dr version: These terms are based on feel and not reality. "I know it when I see it" isn't good enough for me. We should stop using high/mid/low-major. 351 programs will compete for the same ultimate goal this season. If we're going to draw lines between programs and conferences within that pool, we should be doing it with more clarity.

[Glorydays2013]

Also a reminder it makes zero geographical sense for the A10 (consists of mainly East coast teams) to have a school in the middle of the country like SLU. 

Talk to any student athlete that doesnt get a private jet to travel how much they like their 16 hour bus rides on school days

[billikenfan05]

Just now, Glorydays2013 said:

Also a reminder it makes zero geographical sense for the A10 (consists of mainly East coast teams) to have a school in the middle of the country like SLU. 

Talk to any student athlete that doesnt get a private jet to travel how much they like their 16 hour bus rides on school days

Wow this has literally never been talked about on this message board in the 15 years we’ve been in this conference. I can’t believe you’re the first person to think about this. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

The term mid-major (and, by extension, high-major and low-major [which are even less official than mid-major]) applies only to conferences.  Certain conferences are considered mid-major.  Technically, there are programs in mid-major conferences, but it's not proper to call a school a mid-major school.

Gonzaga is not a mid-major, though they do play in a mid-major conference.  By the same token, Pepperdine plays in a mid-major conference, but we aren't really supposed to be calling them mid-major.

I think the same thing is true of the schools in the Power 5 conferences.  There are schools in Power 5 conferences, but it's not proper to call them a Power 5 school.

The term -major refers to Div. 1.  All of it.  If the term existed, minor basketball would be Div. 2 and below.

Mid-major shouldn't be taken to mean "mediocre" or "middle-of-the-road."  It just feels that way.  It also isn't intended to be a barometer of success.  So, if I've shown you a source that says the media generally considers the Atlantic 10 to be a high-major conference, yet you will insist on considering the A-10 and/or SLU to be mid-major (or not in a high-major) conference, then I submit that you are part of the problem.  It's bad enough to hear from fans of Missouri, Illinois, Kansas, etc., that Missouri is the only major program in its state and that SLU is not a major program and they should "stay in their lane," but it's worse when SLU fans help perpetuate the myth.

[brianstl]

10 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Also a reminder it makes zero geographical sense for the A10 (consists of mainly East coast teams) to have a school in the middle of the country like SLU. 

Talk to any student athlete that doesnt get a private jet to travel how much they like their 16 hour bus rides on school days

So you want to turn down a Big East invite, if we ever get one, because of the travel time for non revenue sports?

 

[GBL_Bills]

13 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I think the same thing is true of the schools in the Power 5 conferences.  There are schools in Power 5 conferences, but it's not proper to call them a Power 5 school.

I disagree with this. There are very very few schools in a P5 conference that are perennially bad.

[gobillsgo]

going along with the whole mid major/high major debate, this guy is a “contributor” for Mid Major Madness.  He obviously either doesn’t consider us mid major, or doesn’t consider us a top 25 mid major team.  He lists Davidson and Rhody, so I’d lean more towards him just not having a f****** clue.

 

[Quality Is Job 1]

3 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

I disagree with this. There are very very few schools in a P5 conference that are perennially bad.

I fail to see your point, perhaps.

I didn't say anything about a program being bad every year.  Are you saying that's what you think of as less than "high-major"?