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kshoe

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If someone argues for the A10 over the big east based on the merits, they are either foolish or hate SLU.

Regardless of the merits, SLU will not be headed to the Big East at any foreseeable time in the future. Thank Jimmy Crews for that.

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I 'm hopeful that May can negotiate with the Big East from a position of strength when SLU is playing in a packed arena and is receiving national TV coverage, starting in 2018.

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30 minutes ago, Soderball said:

If someone argues for the A10 over the big east based on the merits, they are either foolish or hate SLU.

Regardless of the merits, SLU will not be headed to the Big East at any foreseeable time in the future. Thank Jimmy Crews for that.

 

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It is going to take at least a five year run of making the tournament every season and at least a couple times playing on the second weekend before the Big East even thinks about adding us as a member on equal terms.  

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Here is some interesting information from today's PD

In the past 4 years, the A10 has had 15 selections into the NCAA tourney. This is one more than the SEC.

Big Ten - 27

Big 12- 26

Pac 12 - 25

ACC - 23

Big East - 23

A10 - 15

SEC - 14

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On February 17, 2017 at 9:10 AM, kshoe said:

Exactly. One has to be privy to private financial information to make the statement that we'd lose money by going to the Big East. Even ignoring the external benefits that come with a higher national profile, more ticket sales, fan donations, etc. the numbers are basically this simple:

- Lose the NCAA credits for the next 3 years: Valued at most as $4 million given we are about to start losing some of those funds

- Pay the exit cost from the A10: Generally thought to be sub $1 million

- Our current TV contract is something like $750k annually. Lose that.

- BE teams make $4mm a year on their TV deal. Let's say they offer us half that, being $2mm a year. From TV alone we are better off by $1.25 mm a year.

But we lose the $5mm from NCAA credits and exit fees you say. Seems like 4 years in we'd have made that back. Everything else is gravy.

Your math adds up.  The next question is can the school short term take the hit for the four years?  I don't know the answer but it is intriguing given the report that in 10 years the school will be facing financial questions.  

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Cheese. Didn't you answer your own question? Short term hit versus long term gain. Financial problems long term. 

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1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

Your math adds up.  The next question is can the school short term take the hit for the four years?  I don't know the answer but it is intriguing given the report that in 10 years the school will be facing financial questions.  

What are the financial issues? I haven't seen the report

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On 2/16/2017 at 0:45 PM, prebilliken said:

:( Sadly I agree. 

Chris May is the ultimate "nice guy" AD. I give him credit for the Ford hire, but I am not sure he has done anything else of note in his entire time at SLU. 

 

Sure he has.  Also noteworthy was Chris May's hire of Jim Crews.  Back then, the team was doing well with Crews at the helm on an interim basis, RM had recently died, our team made the NCAA Tourney again and Jim Crews was awarded National Coach of the Year.  A good and strong Athletic Director would have stood up and thanked Jim for his loyalty and efforts but would have taken us in a different direction. That was my belief and I stated it quite strongly on this Board at that time.  A strong AD would not have followed the trend of retaining Jim and his coaching staff.  A strong AD would have realized that Jim was long past his prime, that this record at Army with Jim Platte was a better indicator of his future success than his run at SLU with RM's team.  A strong AD would not have been afraid to take what could have been an unpopular stand in not hiring Crews as our permanent coach, and instead, hiring a Coach Ford type guy back then.  Instead, Chris May chose the "safe" hire and went with the uneducated national media (and most on this Board) which lacked actual insight into our program and which was obviously biased with sentiment following the death of RM.  

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6 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

 

Sure he has.  Also noteworthy was Chris May's hire of Jim Crews.  Back then, the team was doing well with Crews at the helm on an interim basis, RM had recently died, our team made the NCAA Tourney again and Jim Crews was awarded National Coach of the Year.  A good and strong Athletic Director would have stood up and thanked Jim for his loyalty and efforts but would have taken us in a different direction. That was my belief and I stated it quite strongly on this Board at that time.  A strong AD would not have followed the trend of retaining Jim and his coaching staff.  A strong AD would have realized that Jim was long past his prime, that this record at Army with Jim Platte was a better indicator of his future success than his run at SLU with RM's team.  A strong AD would not have been afraid to take what could have been an unpopular stand in not hiring Crews as our permanent coach, and instead, hiring a Coach Ford type guy back then.  Instead, Chris May chose the "safe" hire and went with the uneducated national media (and most on this Board) which lacked actual insight into our program and which was obviously biased with sentiment following the death of RM.  

i dont think CM deserves this much abuse. He is a super nice, approachable guy and Ford is a home run of a hire, regardless of whether May or Pestello was more responsible for it.

He does deserve blame for the Crews debacle. an AD should be especially judged based on how nonrevenue sports are doing as well. Creating a culture that doesnt create the next SPUMAC is also important.

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15 hours ago, BigMouthBilliken said:

What are the financial issues? I haven't seen the report

It was in another thread about a month ago. Search for the thread  in past posts

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I thought Crews should be hired based on the interim season and I was wrong.  I am a lover of Billiken basketball and it was working so leave it alone keep him.  I did not give coach Majerus's recruits enough credit that they themselves could continue to play at a high level in spite of the coach Crews.  I like Chris May based on the Travis Ford hire and seems to be a nice guy.  Clock Tower breaks it down perfectly on what a strong AD would have done.  I should have not wanted to settle for coach Crews when following a coaching legend like coach Majerus.  Also at the time the SLU job would have been a great job to have with the players coming back and the popularity of the program.

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15 hours ago, willie said:

Cheese. Didn't you answer your own question? Short term hit versus long term gain. Financial problems long term. 

You can look at two ways. Yours or we can not because what else would suffer to get there. Organizations don't always take the long view. I am not sure what SLU would do

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I always admired the AD at Wisconsin when Bennett (the old man) abruptly left. Sodie was selected as interim and did get them in the NCAAs. Safe thing would have been to retain him but he went out and hired Bo Ryan, That was gutsy because in Ryan's short tenure at Milwaukee was not all that spectacular. Saw something in him. The AD hit the homerun because Ryan did a nice job with the Badgers,

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40 minutes ago, CBFan said:

I thought Crews should be hired based on the interim season and I was wrong.  I am a lover of Billiken basketball and it was working so leave it alone keep him.  I did not give coach Majerus's recruits enough credit that they themselves could continue to play at a high level in spite of the coach Crews.  I like Chris May based on the Travis Ford hire and seems to be a nice guy.  Clock Tower breaks it down perfectly on what a strong AD would have done.  I should have not wanted to settle for coach Crews when following a coaching legend like coach Majerus.  Also at the time the SLU job would have been a great job to have with the players coming back and the popularity of the program.

 

For the 2nd time in a decade SLU has been the beneficiary of a perfect storm.  The first time it was a Hall of Fame coach with questionable health who wanted to get back to the Midwest to be closer to his mother.  What we needed then was someone who could build a winning team by any (legal) means necessary. But what SLU desperately needed to build a sustainable program in the long term was someone who could bring local top 150 players here. That's what all the really successful mid-majors do. Once a school produces enough local success stories, area kids increasingly identify with the local school and recruiting becomes much easier. And this time we have a former A-10 coach who excels at recruiting, and is still being paid handsomely by his previous employer, fall into our lap. 

You can draw a 200 mile radius around the school and over the next 3 years, there's enough talent to field a starting five.  And that's even conceding that we're going to lose 2-3 players to other schools.  Exciting times.

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I don't know what will happen in ten years, but the school is facing financial issues NOW.

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3 hours ago, Soderball said:

i dont think CM deserves this much abuse. He is a super nice, approachable guy and Ford is a home run of a hire, regardless of whether May or Pestello was more responsible for it.

He does deserve blame for the Crews debacle. an AD should be especially judged based on how nonrevenue sports are doing as well. Creating a culture that doesnt create the next SPUMAC is also important.

Abuse? Good stuff. No blame for hiring Jim Crews? Good stuff.  And BTW our minimal revenue sport of soccer continues to underperform with a coach hired by AD May and yet no change there.  Sorry if if have higher goals for SLU than just not to be SPUMAC and having a good baseball program.

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58 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Abuse? Good stuff. No blame for hiring Jim Crews? Good stuff.  And BTW our minimal revenue sport of soccer continues to underperform with a coach hired by AD May and yet no change there.  Sorry if if have higher goals for SLU than just not to be SPUMAC and having a good baseball program.

the soccer program needs an overhaul. agree with the situation being unacceptable.

Programs DO turn into SPUMAC. UNC ran a "shadow curricula." This stuff goes on.

I said there should be blame. How much of that blame falls on Biondi? How much on May? Others involved? Dr. C?

I argued that your statements have merit but should be tempered.

 

Im happy with the best recruiting class in the A10 coming, yeah. I am guilty as charged.

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For Cheese: My post about the financial implications was probably a bit simplistic as I treated the NCAA revenues lost as a single lump sum but really its payments for the next 3 years. As such it's not really a "pay a bunch now, make it back over time" proposition but more of a "pay a little now, make a whole let more over time" deal.

i would highly question the sanity of those in charge of SLU if they let small negative dollars in the very near term outweigh the very large long term benefits of the BE. That being said, it's not our decision and never has been.

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While I agree that the decline suffered by the basketball program under Crews was close to catastrophic, most programs tend to decline gradually from multiple minor errors  committed by someone up above and never fixed up properly. Nice guys in high level positions that do not want to upset the apple cart as a basis for their own performance may be the main culprits in these types of gradual declines. SLU apparently has any number of non performing programs (academic and non academic) that will have to be redone or eliminated as a way to control the financial issues. If Ford turns the basketball  program around into a good moneymaker for the school this will alleviate the problems the school faces and elevate the relative standing of the sports programs compared to other programs in the school that are losing money. I am assuming that finances will play a much larger role in the decision making process at SLU over the coming years.

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I was thinking about this earlier but with the benefit of hindsight, it's now obvious March of 2013 was as destructive a month for the program as possible.

At the beginning of the month, the BE expanded without SLU although at the time the thought was they'd expand again soon.

Then we go off to San Jose and with our best chance ever to get to the sweet 16 lose to Oregon.

Then we give Crews the job full time.

Pretty much a gut punch month if there ever could be one.

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3 hours ago, kshoe said:

For Cheese: My post about the financial implications was probably a bit simplistic as I treated the NCAA revenues lost as a single lump sum but really its payments for the next 3 years. As such it's not really a "pay a bunch now, make it back over time" proposition but more of a "pay a little now, make a whole let more over time" deal.

i would highly question the sanity of those in charge of SLU if they let small negative dollars in the very near term outweigh the very large long term benefits of the BE. That being said, it's not our decision and never has been.

I sort of figured that out on my own - the problem is if the loss differential for each year causes another part of the program to suffer how will that go over.  You can also bet that if salaries are frozen that will bring a hue and cry.  I really do understand your point and I would probably have no trouble taking your route the problem is will the powers to be think the same way and all the others who would get impacted even for short term.

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2 hours ago, kshoe said:

I was thinking about this earlier but with the benefit of hindsight, it's now obvious March of 2013 was as destructive a month for the program as possible.

At the beginning of the month, the BE expanded without SLU although at the time the thought was they'd expand again soon.

Then we go off to San Jose and with our best chance ever to get to the sweet 16 lose to Oregon.

Then we give Crews the job full time.

Pretty much a gut punch month if there ever could be one.

This is true kshoe but we have or will heal and come back stronger starting next year.

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On 2/19/2017 at 10:31 AM, Clock_Tower said:

Abuse? Good stuff. No blame for hiring Jim Crews? Good stuff.  And BTW our minimal revenue sport of soccer continues to underperform with a coach hired by AD May and yet no change there.  Sorry if if have higher goals for SLU than just not to be SPUMAC and having a good baseball program.

Here-here. 

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