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32 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Because if the recruiting stays the course we can almost garuntee bids to the tourney and winning the conference each year

 

Yawn. If we're going to be as good as we think I would love the chance to battle BE squads during conference play. Chaifetz would be lit 

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Having no inside knowledge on what the powers that be think about being in the BE, you have to assume they'll want to pull out all the stops if the opportunity arises. While I wouldn't call the hiring of Ford a splash hire ala Majerus, we could easily have taken a cheaper route. One has to think the Admin + deep pocket donors were saying we've got to show the BE we want to be a BB power like we were under Rick. I'm hoping that for the immediate future, say 3 years, the BE is shelving the idea of expansion.

That said if a power house like UConn says they want in, the BE is going to have to add an additional member. Face it, as of today they're not going to look to favorably on SLU. They probably consider us to be a DePaul, some history but can't sustain it. Whereas, other A10 schools, most notably Dayton and VCU, are solid year in and year out. The only way we'd get in over Dayton would be if X blocks them, or Fox Sports demands it. If UConn does enter,  that would likely rule out VCU since it's another East Coast school, and they need to fill in the Mid West for cost purposes.

There isn't one of us on here who wouldn't give their eye teeth to be invited into the BE, especially if DU leaves the A10. DU is the A10's signature program and their leaving would definitely dilute the conference's appeal unless the A10 got Wichita St to replace them. Therefore, I'm hoping the BE is not considering an expansion at this time. Hopefully, we get some time to right the ship and get back into the national hoops picture.

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We ought to just move to the Valley. Natural geographic rivalries, easier travel. It's where we've always belonged.

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2 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Because if the recruiting stays the course we can almost garuntee bids to the tourney and winning the conference each year

 

Its about $$$. 

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1 hour ago, majerus mojo said:

Yawn. If we're going to be as good as we think I would love the chance to battle BE squads during conference play. Chaifetz would be lit 

Thank you. I like you. 

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1 hour ago, billikenfan05 said:

Because don't rock the boat is the name of the game with the AD. 

:( Sadly I agree. 

Chris May is the ultimate "nice guy" AD. I give him credit for the Ford hire, but I am not sure he has done anything else of note in his entire time at SLU. 

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If the Fox Sports deal with the BE is truly $500 million for 10 teams and $600 million for 12 teams, I would go to the BE and tell them we'll take less than our equal share for the remainder of this TV deal.  That way the current member schools would be looking at adding revenue by including SLU rather than it being a wash.  I bet we could work out a deal that still puts the same or a little more TV money in SLU's pocket compared to our A10 deal, but creates an incentive for the BE schools to include us.

Think about it, if Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier are lukewarm about SLU or even against adding us, but then suddenly they are looking at taking in more money simply by bringing us into the fold with UConn, then that might tip the scales.

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28 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

If the Fox Sports deal with the BE is truly $500 million for 10 teams and $600 million for 12 teams, I would go to the BE and tell them we'll take less than our equal share for the remainder of this TV deal.  That way the current member schools would be looking at adding revenue by including SLU rather than it being a wash.  I bet we could work out a deal that still puts the same or a little more TV money in SLU's pocket compared to our A10 deal, but creates an incentive for the BE schools to include us.

Think about it, if Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier are lukewarm about SLU or even against adding us, but then suddenly they are looking at taking in more money simply by bringing us into the fold with UConn, then that might tip the scales.

where did any of you get the idea that we had any chance of getting an "equal share"?   it is my understanding that the Big East never intended to give us an equal share or assist us in the exit fee from the A10 the entry fee to the Big East and help offset the loss of our ncaa credits from the a-10 to the big east.   thus, it was stupid from a revenue standpoint to even consider at this time to move from the A-10 to the Big East.   it would be a big lose to move.  

now had we continued jett-evans like teams for 5-10 years, maybe big east is more reasonable.   but right now we bring nothing to the table to even garner a good deal.   why make the painful dream if it isn't going to happen. 

for those of you insinuating that May has done nothing for SLU athletic dept, our across the board all sports strength and performance has gotten stronger during the may era than any era in my billiken fandom.   I personally was not a big fan originally of the ford hire, but since I now see the immediate benefit and see his very very good recruiting skills to help our basketball program recover as quickly as possible.   One cannot say enough about his lisa stone hire.   or the baseball coach hire.   etc.   Chris May has been nothing but an excellent Athletic director.  

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18 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

where did any of you get the idea that we had any chance of getting an "equal share"?   it is my understanding that the Big East never intended to give us an equal share or assist us in the exit fee from the A10 the entry fee to the Big East and help offset the loss of our ncaa credits from the a-10 to the big east.   thus, it was stupid from a revenue standpoint to even consider at this time to move from the A-10 to the Big East.   it would be a big lose to move.  

now had we continued jett-evans like teams for 5-10 years, maybe big east is more reasonable.   but right now we bring nothing to the table to even garner a good deal.   why make the painful dream if it isn't going to happen. 

for those of you insinuating that May has done nothing for SLU athletic dept, our across the board all sports strength and performance has gotten stronger during the may era than any era in my billiken fandom.   I personally was not a big fan originally of the ford hire, but since I now see the immediate benefit and see his very very good recruiting skills to help our basketball program recover as quickly as possible.   One cannot say enough about his lisa stone hire.   or the baseball coach hire.   etc.   Chris May has been nothing but an excellent Athletic director.  

 

If the only real barometer is "recent success," then you have to turn your aggression/anger towards the Vincentians. DePaul has absolutely NOTHING to offer. They are a commuter school chasing the ghost of Ray Meyer. I get the whole Chicago thing, but they should be relegated out of the BE.

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11 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

where did any of you get the idea that we had any chance of getting an "equal share"?   it is my understanding that the Big East never intended to give us an equal share or assist us in the exit fee from the A10 the entry fee to the Big East and help offset the loss of our ncaa credits from the a-10 to the big east.   thus, it was stupid from a revenue standpoint to even consider at this time to move from the A-10 to the Big East.   it would be a big lose to move.  

now had we continued jett-evans like teams for 5-10 years, maybe big east is more reasonable.   but right now we bring nothing to the table to even garner a good deal.   why make the painful dream if it isn't going to happen. 

for those of you insinuating that May has done nothing for SLU athletic dept, our across the board all sports strength and performance has gotten stronger during the may era than any era in my billiken fandom.   I personally was not a big fan originally of the ford hire, but since I now see the immediate benefit and see his very very good recruiting skills to help our basketball program recover as quickly as possible.   One cannot say enough about his lisa stone hire.   or the baseball coach hire.   etc.   Chris May has been nothing but an excellent Athletic director.  

Roy must have been privy to the financials of any proposed move to the Big East to know it would be a big loss.:rolleyes:

Even if offered less than full shares of tv revenue, it could very well make complete financial sense to move if the increase in your revenues (inclusive of increased donations, more tickets sold, more shared NCAA tourney revenue down the road, etc.) exceeds the loss of the next 3 years of NCAA tourney revenues. SLU would jump at the opportunity to move, under just about any financial offers.

The truth is, the Big East has no desire to expand because Fox Sports doesn't want them to expand. It was mentioned earlier that Fox Sports has to be losing money on the Big East contract (mediocre ratings, changing cable tv landscape, etc.) so why would they want the conference to expand into 2 new teams and have to pay them 20% more in fees. The Big East know this, and as good partners with Fox Sports you don't piss on your partner by expanding just because its written into a contract.

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5 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

 

If the only real barometer is "recent success," then you have to turn your aggression/anger towards the Vincentians. DePaul has absolutely NOTHING to offer.

so what did slu have to offer in 2002 to have garnered the invite instead of DePaul?

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2 minutes ago, kshoe said:

Roy must have been privy to the financials of any proposed move to the Big East to know it would be a big loss.:rolleyes:

Even if offered less than full shares of tv revenue, it could very well make complete financial sense to move if the increase in your revenues (inclusive of increased donations, more tickets sold, more shared NCAA tourney revenue down the road, etc.) exceeds the loss of the next 3 years of NCAA tourney revenues. SLU would jump at the opportunity to move, under just about any financial offers.

The truth is, the Big East has no desire to expand because Fox Sports doesn't want them to expand. It was mentioned earlier that Fox Sports has to be losing money on the Big East contract (mediocre ratings, changing cable tv landscape, etc.) so why would they want the conference to expand into 2 new teams and have to pay them 20% more in fees. The Big East know this, and as good partners with Fox Sports you don't piss on your partner by expanding just because its written into a contract.

I obviously know more than you. 

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8 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

I obviously know more than you. 

Creighton, Butler and Xavier are really feeling the pain of their decision to leave and forgo NCAA tournament revenues for lesser shares of BE TV revenue. Good thing SLU made the sane financial decision :lol:

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11 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

so what did slu have to offer in 2002 to have garnered the invite instead of DePaul?

DePaul didn't enter the BE until the 2005-2006 academic year (along with three teams that are no longer in the BE). DePaul had no vision of newer facilities on-campus; even South Florida was a head-scratcher (aside from Doug Woolard doing what Doug Woolard does best and bending us over again). On strictly a merit-based system, I could make sense of Marquette (coming off a Final Four and national attention) and Louisville and Cincinnati. But not DePaul.

 

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10 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

DePaul didn't enter the BE until the 2005-2006 academic year (along with three teams that are no longer in the BE). DePaul had no vision of newer facilities on-campus; even South Florida was a head-scratcher (aside from Doug Woolard doing what Doug Woolard does best and us over again). On strictly a merit-based system, I could make sense of Marquette (coming off a Final Four and national attention) and Louisville and Cincinnati. But not DePaul.

you didn't answer my question, what did slu have that merited inclusion above depaul?  and btw, I am pretty sure the decision to include DePaul was in 2002.   I don't care when they were finally able to join.   I am sure conference usa tried to hold onto all programs as long as they could and it took time to make it all happen. 

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12 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

you didn't answer my question, what did slu have that merited inclusion above depaul?  and btw, I am pretty sure the decision to include DePaul was in 2002.   I don't care when they were finally able to join.   I am sure conference usa tried to hold onto all programs as long as they could and it took time to make it all happen. 

For clarification, I think the Marquette, DePaul, Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida to the Big East move was agreed in 2003. I'm confident it was not 2002, because Marquette had their Final 4 run in 2003, and parlayed that success into a better conference. 

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2 hours ago, kshoe said:

Creighton, Butler and Xavier are really feeling the pain of their decision to leave and forgo NCAA tournament revenues for lesser shares of BE TV revenue. Good thing SLU made the sane financial decision :lol:

Well said. 

Its about prestige and interest. You may be able to argue that we can achieve the heights of college basketball within the A10, but there is zero argument about whether or not SLU would be better off in the Big East from either a financial or basketball perspective. ZERO. 

Creighton lost a once in a generation player as they entered the Big East... They were at the bottom of the league for two seasons only to return resurgent with a more complete team than even Dougie McBuckets could provide. Its silly to think that SLU could not have rebuilt from the Majerus-Era (I refuse to call it the Crews Era) within the Big East. Because of DePaul? DePaul is an anomaly...For so many reasons: their history, the fact that they can't grab a single solid recruit from the town they reside (much like Northwestern). If I had to rebuild I would rather do it in the Big East.  

Whether the Big East likes it or not, SLU is a perfect fit for the Big East if it were to go to 12 teams. Yet, the old guard of the BE wants to hold on to the days of the past and do whatever they can do to get the conference to look like it used to. Sadly for anyone not in the conference, their basketball is phenomenal right now so that school of thought is merited. Villanova winning the NC was the worst thing for any team that wants to be in the Big East, us, Dayton, UConn, doesn't matter. It was the best thing for the old guard who likes the ten team format. 

Its also silly for SLU fans to not want to be in the Big East, or to chastise those that do, do you think that the NCAA credits from 2013 would matter in 10 years? 20? How myopic is that mode of thinking? How much more natural interest do you think STL residents, SLU alumni, students, or prospective students, would have to play against the schools in the Big East rather than the A10. To play against teams that are within the circle of our largest geographical draw for our student body. How much larger are the alumni bases in Milwaukee, Cincy, CHICAGO, and Indy, then they are in Philadelphia, Richmond, or Pittsburgh? How much more intense would the natural rivalries with Marquette, Xavier, and Butler be? How many more games could SLU fans drive to? Its ridiculous not to want all that. 

3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

for those of you insinuating that May has done nothing for SLU athletic dept, our across the board all sports strength and performance has gotten stronger during the may era than any era in my billiken fandom.   I personally was not a big fan originally of the ford hire, but since I now see the immediate benefit and see his very very good recruiting skills to help our basketball program recover as quickly as possible.   One cannot say enough about his lisa stone hire.   or the baseball coach hire.   etc.   Chris May has been nothing but an excellent Athletic director.  

As for May being a good AD- How much better would that "all-sport performance" level be if we were playing in the Big East. Very often one big mistake can outweigh many numerous small achievements. Until SLU hangs a banner that says "Final Four" or "National Champion" in the Chaifetz, our failure to capitalize on the opportunity to be in the Big East, however slim a margin of possibility actually was, will be the defining moment of May's tenure as AD. Its harsh, but its also the truth, there was a shot under his leadership, and that shot was missed. I don't know why SLU isn't in the Big East today, but I know who was in charge when we didn't get in. 

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1 minute ago, prebilliken said:

Also: Cincy, DePaul Louisville, Marquette, South Florida, all joined in 2005. They replaced the departures of Boston College, Miami, and Virginia Tech to the ACC. 

Wikipedia: Old Big East Membership Timeline

Which, I might add, is the situation that lead us from the CUSA to the A10. The Big East is the source of all our misery. 

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I will not stand by and let someone tell me Chris May has been nothing but an excellent athletic director. He's been the definition of mediocre. 

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Wow we get one good recruiting class and we think we can just bump to the Big East right away. Lets get real, we would be winless this year if we were in the Big East. Having a top 40 recruiting class would make us average in the Big East. We stay in the A10 and keep getting tournament wins/bids is the best way to go with this program. 

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SLU's all-sports performance has been better than when I was there from 01 to 04, but missing on the Big East and taking too long to fire Jim Crews are two pretty big negatives. I think the Ford hire has been great (his recruiting has been absurdly good and he's gotten more out of the mess left for him than many could imagine) and could make up for not firing Crews after the first 11 win season. SLU is going to have to dominate the A10 for quite awhile to prove worthiness for the Big East...by dominate, I mean sweep regular season and tournament multiple consecutive years. 

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4 minutes ago, JettFlight5 said:

SLU is going to have to dominate the A10 for quite awhile to prove worthiness for the Big East...by dominate, I mean sweep regular season and tournament multiple consecutive years. 

Exactly

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1 hour ago, prebilliken said:

Well said. 

Its about prestige and interest. You may be able to argue that we can achieve the heights of college basketball within the A10, but there is zero argument about whether or not SLU would be better off in the Big East from either a financial or basketball perspective. ZERO. 

Creighton lost a once in a generation player as they entered the Big East... They were at the bottom of the league for two seasons only to return resurgent with a more complete team than even Dougie McBuckets could provide. Its silly to think that SLU could not have rebuilt from the Majerus-Era (I refuse to call it the Crews Era) within the Big East. Because of DePaul? DePaul is an anomaly...For so many reasons: their history, the fact that they can't grab a single solid recruit from the town they reside (much like Northwestern). If I had to rebuild I would rather do it in the Big East.  

Whether the Big East likes it or not, SLU is a perfect fit for the Big East if it were to go to 12 teams. Yet, the old guard of the BE wants to hold on to the days of the past and do whatever they can do to get the conference to look like it used to. Sadly for anyone not in the conference, their basketball is phenomenal right now so that school of thought is merited. Villanova winning the NC was the worst thing for any team that wants to be in the Big East, us, Dayton, UConn, doesn't matter. It was the best thing for the old guard who likes the ten team format. 

Its also silly for SLU fans to not want to be in the Big East, or to chastise those that do, do you think that the NCAA credits from 2013 would matter in 10 years? 20? How myopic is that mode of thinking? How much more natural interest do you think STL residents, SLU alumni, students, or prospective students, would have to play against the schools in the Big East rather than the A10. To play against teams that are within the circle of our largest geographical draw for our student body. How much larger are the alumni bases in Milwaukee, Cincy, CHICAGO, and Indy, then they are in Philadelphia, Richmond, or Pittsburgh? How much more intense would the natural rivalries with Marquette, Xavier, and Butler be? How many more games could SLU fans drive to? Its ridiculous not to want all that. 

As for May being a good AD- How much better would that "all-sport performance" level be if we were playing in the Big East. Very often one big mistake can outweigh many numerous small achievements. Until SLU hangs a banner that says "Final Four" or "National Champion" in the Chaifetz, our failure to capitalize on the opportunity to be in the Big East, however slim a margin of possibility actually was, will be the defining moment of May's tenure as AD. Its harsh, but its also the truth, there was a shot under his leadership, and that shot was missed. I don't know why SLU isn't in the Big East today, but I know who was in charge when we didn't get in. 

 

So do I and his first name is Larry.

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