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56 minutes ago, prebilliken said:

Also: Cincy, DePaul Louisville, Marquette, South Florida, all joined in 2005. They replaced the departures of Boston College, Miami, and Virginia Tech to the ACC. 

Wikipedia: Old Big East Membership Timeline

again, the point was when the move was approved and agreed to, not when they actually joined.   i think you will find it was not 2005 when the move was announced.   

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4 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

where did any of you get the idea that we had any chance of getting an "equal share"?   it is my understanding that the Big East never intended to give us an equal share or assist us in the exit fee from the A10 the entry fee to the Big East and help offset the loss of our ncaa credits from the a-10 to the big east.   thus, it was stupid from a revenue standpoint to even consider at this time to move from the A-10 to the Big East.   it would be a big lose to move.  

now had we continued jett-evans like teams for 5-10 years, maybe big east is more reasonable.   but right now we bring nothing to the table to even garner a good deal.   why make the painful dream if it isn't going to happen. 

for those of you insinuating that May has done nothing for SLU athletic dept, our across the board all sports strength and performance has gotten stronger during the may era than any era in my billiken fandom.   I personally was not a big fan originally of the ford hire, but since I now see the immediate benefit and see his very very good recruiting skills to help our basketball program recover as quickly as possible.   One cannot say enough about his lisa stone hire.   or the baseball coach hire.   etc.   Chris May has been nothing but an excellent Athletic director.  

Majerus recruited Stone. 

All I'll say is that more goes into being an AD than hiring coaches. 

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24 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

So do I and his first name is Larry.

I believe this. I buy into the narrative that our fellow Catholic University's did not like Biondi and wanted no part of him. I also believe May did everything he could to get us in. I do know that May has not given up on the possibility of the BE? 

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All of this discussion about basketball or athletic revenue is pretty short-sighted and irrelevant in my opinion. Getting into the Big East would do far more for the University as a whole. Given the recent Magis Diagnostic Report which detailed a declining college-bound student pool in the Midwest, it is critically important to increase our exposure elsewhere. The Big East would give us such exposure. Exit fees, lost NCAA credits, revenue sharing disparities, in my mind, are pretty inconsequential in the long run compared to the 'goodwill' we'd get just by playing the Georgetowns and Villanovas of the world. 

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3 hours ago, willie said:

I believe this. I buy into the narrative that our fellow Catholic University's did not like Biondi and wanted no part of him. I also believe May did everything he could to get us in. I do know that May has not given up on the possibility of the BE? 

I'm more into the narrative that he just didn't give a sh!te and/or had no comprehension of the importance of his role as a lobbyist to other U. presidents and league influentials. 

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1 hour ago, Bizziken said:

All of this discussion about basketball or athletic revenue is pretty short-sighted and irrelevant in my opinion. Getting into the Big East would do far more for the University as a whole. Given the recent Magis Diagnostic Report which detailed a declining college-bound student pool in the Midwest, it is critically important to increase our exposure elsewhere. The Big East would give us such exposure. Exit fees, lost NCAA credits, revenue sharing disparities, in my mind, are pretty inconsequential in the long run compared to the 'goodwill' we'd get just by playing the Georgetowns and Villanovas of the world. 

Thank you. 

I can't believe there are people that think the A10 is the right route. Who cares if we kill the A10 if we don't make any money doing it. 

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7 hours ago, Bizziken said:

All of this discussion about basketball or athletic revenue is pretty short-sighted and irrelevant in my opinion. Getting into the Big East would do far more for the University as a whole. Given the recent Magis Diagnostic Report which detailed a declining college-bound student pool in the Midwest, it is critically important to increase our exposure elsewhere. The Big East would give us such exposure. Exit fees, lost NCAA credits, revenue sharing disparities, in my mind, are pretty inconsequential in the long run compared to the 'goodwill' we'd get just by playing the Georgetowns and Villanovas of the world. 

its not happening.

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1 hour ago, Soderball said:

its not happening.

Thanks for that. I never said it was. Just saying that getting in would be of greater benefit to the school than the athletic department. 

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9 minutes ago, Bizziken said:

Thanks for that. I never said it was. Just saying that getting in would be of greater benefit to the school than the athletic department. 

Agreed. People seem to have difficulty understanding that one can say something along the lines of "I don't think we are going to be invited to the Big East but I sure wish we were" in response to some of the zanier posters out there that would say they don't want to go because of lost NCAA units. 

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18 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

where did any of you get the idea that we had any chance of getting an "equal share"?   it is my understanding that the Big East never intended to give us an equal share or assist us in the exit fee from the A10 the entry fee to the Big East and help offset the loss of our ncaa credits from the a-10 to the big east.   thus, it was stupid from a revenue standpoint to even consider at this time to move from the A-10 to the Big East.   it would be a big lose to move.  

now had we continued jett-evans like teams for 5-10 years, maybe big east is more reasonable.   but right now we bring nothing to the table to even garner a good deal.   why make the painful dream if it isn't going to happen. 

for those of you insinuating that May has done nothing for SLU athletic dept, our across the board all sports strength and performance has gotten stronger during the may era than any era in my billiken fandom.   I personally was not a big fan originally of the ford hire, but since I now see the immediate benefit and see his very very good recruiting skills to help our basketball program recover as quickly as possible.   One cannot say enough about his lisa stone hire.   or the baseball coach hire.   etc.   Chris May has been nothing but an excellent Athletic director.  

The Mike McGinty hire was exceptional.

The baseball team wasn't very good last year were they?

 

 

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14 hours ago, JMM28 said:

I will not stand by and let someone tell me Chris May has been nothing but an excellent athletic director. He's been the definition of mediocre. 

I call him "Dismay."

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9 hours ago, Bizziken said:

All of this discussion about basketball or athletic revenue is pretty short-sighted and irrelevant in my opinion. Getting into the Big East would do far more for the University as a whole. Given the recent Magis Diagnostic Report which detailed a declining college-bound student pool in the Midwest, it is critically important to increase our exposure elsewhere. The Big East would give us such exposure. Exit fees, lost NCAA credits, revenue sharing disparities, in my mind, are pretty inconsequential in the long run compared to the 'goodwill' we'd get just by playing the Georgetowns and Villanovas of the world. 

I am not sure that is the case. I think SLU has very good academic rankings and as such may (we will not be sure until we get there) compete favorably for the estimated student pool in the midwest, certainly much better than places like Fontbonne will be able to do. These broad variations in pools affect some schools severely while they may favor better academic schools. On the other hand, we are not going to compete well against Georgetown and BC in the East.

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13 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Majerus recruited Stone. 

All I'll say is that more goes into being an AD than hiring coaches. 

Yeah sure.   Rickma made numerous trips to meet with her in Madison,  wined and dined her, negotiated her contact etc.    Give me a break.   Surely you are not this dumb.  You need to get over the fact you don't work at slu.   With your sour disposition don't know why they would hire you.   

Of course an AD does more than hire coaches.   Especially at a private school that can't feed at the public trough.   You people think slu can ignore budgets and financial limits?  Give away earnings to support the entire athletic budget just so they can be the big East doormat?  You all have this backwards.   We have to win big and over a period of time first.

Crews destroyed more than most think.   The basketball program carries the entire cost of athletics at slu so to just take a massive financial hit just to take a junior position in the big East and just to say we are in the big East when financially it doesn't make sense is stupid.   Had the winning and dominance of the A10 continued, that might have opened a door.   But currently we can't even compete in the A10 let alone have a track record of success.

  The only negotiating chip we have is a decent TV market.   Even then our attendance is down wrote can't even sell our a 10k arena, our TV ratings are a joke,  we get about the same coverge with st louis media that the incarnate word girls badketball team gets.  There is no reason for the big East to even consider us let alone treat us fairly.

We have to build the program, have a recoRd of continued success and then maybe we can negotiate a fair deal where we don't even have to give away the store with no vision of upward financial stability.any talk before that is actually embarrassing.  

 

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5 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I am not sure that is the case. I think SLU has very good academic rankings and as such may (we will not be sure until we get there) compete favorably for the estimated student pool in the midwest, certainly much better than places like Fontbonne will be able to do. These broad variations in pools affect some schools severely while they may favor better academic schools. On the other hand, we are not going to compete well against Georgetown and BC in the East.

Not every student in America can get into G-town and BC. You should see the talent SLU has coming in this weekend for the Presidential Scholars interviews. We are very much a top destination for academics, athletics, and SLU a very tangible sense of community that a lot of urban schools lack.

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11 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Yeah sure.   Rickma made numerous trips to meet with her in Madison,  wined and dined her, negotiated her contact etc.    Give me a break.   Surely you are not this dumb.  You need to get over the fact you don't work at slu.   With your sour disposition don't know why they would hire you.   

Of course an AD does more than hire coaches.   Especially at a private school that can't feed at the public trough.   You people think slu can ignore budgets and financial limits?  Give away earnings to support the entire athletic budget just so they can be the big East doormat?  You all have this backwards.   We have to win big and over a period of time first.

Crews destroyed more than most think.   The basketball program carries the entire cost of athletics at slu so to just take a massive financial hit just to take a junior position in the big East and just to say we are in the big East when financially it doesn't make sense is stupid.   Had the winning and dominance of the A10 continued, that might have opened a door.   But currently we can't even compete in the A10 let alone have a track record of success.

  The only negotiating chip we have is a decent TV market.   Even then our attendance is down wrote can't even sell our a 10k arena, our TV ratings are a joke,  we get about the same coverge with st louis media that the incarnate word girls badketball team gets.  There is no reason for the big East to even consider us let alone treat us fairly.

We have to build the program, have a recoRd of continued success and then maybe we can negotiate a fair deal where we don't even have to give away the store with no vision of upward financial stability.any talk before that is actually embarrassing.  

 

I certainly don't expect the 2018-19 version of the Billikens to be a doormat to anyone or any conference. The 10-yr rebuild will be over.

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27 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

so to just take a massive financial hit just to take a junior position in the big East and just to say we are in the big East when financially it doesn't make sense is stupid.

I am curious what financial information you are privy to that supports this statement? I struggle to see how joining the Big East would be a massive financial hit beyond some sort of initial entrance fee/exit fee.

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Bobby, of course we are. The kids that cannot get into BC and Georgetown but want to go to a Catholic or Jesuit school will be looking out of their geographic area and we may well be in play. However, in terms of the Midwest we are clearly in the top of the academic rankings for Catholic schools, and we will do better than a lot other schools will. In other words, the academic advantage of SLU will be a major factor in attracting students within the Midwest away from other schools with lower academic rankings.

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2 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

I am curious what financial information you are privy to that supports this statement?

I believe that Roy's statement is mostly true.  I am sure there is fund raising going on by each sport that adds to their budgets but basically the revenue brought in my the BB program carries the AD for the most part.

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If May got a call today from the BE and said be here in two hours or else you're out, he'd find a way to do it. Just think about this for a minute, you're going to play your geographical rivals again, X, MU, Creighton, Butler, and Rue Paul (admittedly not much to get excited about the last one). Then add to that mix visits by Nova, GU, Providence, St. John's, etc. and the Fetz would be rocking every night. Especially, if we had a Rick Majerus like product on the floor t that could actually compete against these teams.  A SLU ticket would truly be one of the harder tickets in town.

I don't mind us being in the A10 for the time being, but if the opportunity ever arose again to gain entry, you can bet SLU would do everything in it's power to gain entrance. The advantages are just too great. And, I think the general consensus at the time they admitted X, Butler, and Creighton was that Biondi just never played the political game like he should have. I seem to recall that Dr.C even did a promotional video hoping to convince the BE we'd be a good choice.

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10 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I believe that Roy's statement is mostly true.  I am sure there is fund raising going on by each sport that adds to their budgets but basically the revenue brought in my the BB program carries the AD for the most part.

My question is more what data one would have to support that joining the Big East would have been detrimental to our athletic department financially beyond some sort of initial entrance fee and exit fee when compared to being in the A10. I see kshoe asked essentially the same question yesterday and my overall thoughts are in line with kshoe and prebilliken, so I will leave the discussion. But I would be curious to know of the financial information that some are referencing. 

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Can't speak for B'roy, but I think his main complaint is whoever were to get in now would be treated like second class passengers. I agree that doesn't seem fair, but second class on a luxury cruise ship has to be better than first class on a tramp steamer.   

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-if we moved to the BEast is Milwaukee the most likely spot to have a drunk bus driver for our teams? 

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Seems to come back to my favorite word -- sustainability.  Rick gave us great memories and the understanding it could happen.  But like the proverb, no teaching of how to fish. 

I know May fought long and hard for the Big East.  Still believes it is doable.  I know Biondi was a stumbling block.  No surprise there.  I also know some financial considerations were not to our benefit.  I would have said "go" no matter the issue.  And we'd be worse bottom feeders than RuPaul is given what he-who-is-dead-to-me did. 

Football still rules.  As for the A10 ---- I can see it getting all of fkilter here shortly.  #1) Hurley drastically underachieves; Rhode Island falters.  #2) Archie this the road; NC State is open and he's a grad plus rumor in Columbus is Matta is on way out with bad health and Archie was there for a year.  Dayton drops.  #3) Shaka is gone at VCU.  Shaka's last recruits leave after this year; Wade hasn't shown me much from a singular Wade point of view.  VCU starts to fade.  Who fills the void?  Us?  maybe.  Schmidt does more with less at St. Bonaventure.  Kellogg is an idiot at Umass ala Hurley.  Geedubya doesn't seem to be it.  Ditto Duquesne, Fordham and Mason.  Richmond?  Not really a glamor destination.  Philly?  Maybe the Joeys but no way La Salle.  They play in a mausoleum.  Can't se Davidson straight up but in this diluted atmosphere? 

Down A10.  Rising SLU (maybe).  Win and see what is up next expansion move.  We can't force the BE and we are not a viable option right now.

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3 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Football still rules.

Which to me is why the Big East is so enticing as a SLU fan, it is really the only attractive option for us.

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29 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

My question is more what data one would have to support that joining the Big East would have been detrimental to our athletic department financially beyond some sort of initial entrance fee and exit fee when compared to being in the A10. I see kshoe asked essentially the same question yesterday and my overall thoughts are in line with kshoe and prebilliken, so I will leave the discussion. But I would be curious to know of the financial information that some are referencing. 

Exactly. One has to be privy to private financial information to make the statement that we'd lose money by going to the Big East. Even ignoring the external benefits that come with a higher national profile, more ticket sales, fan donations, etc. the numbers are basically this simple:

- Lose the NCAA credits for the next 3 years: Valued at most as $4 million given we are about to start losing some of those funds

- Pay the exit cost from the A10: Generally thought to be sub $1 million

- Our current TV contract is something like $750k annually. Lose that.

- BE teams make $4mm a year on their TV deal. Let's say they offer us half that, being $2mm a year. From TV alone we are better off by $1.25 mm a year.

But we lose the $5mm from NCAA credits and exit fees you say. Seems like 4 years in we'd have made that back. Everything else is gravy.

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