JettFlight5 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I completely agree with what you say about hesitation from SLU after we are invited in being fatal to this process. However, the way you present this process presumes that SLU will be offered a participation in the Big East. What concerns me is the decision process prior to their formal offering us, or anyone else, a slot in the Big East, "the Beast" as you call it. You may look at the process of getting to a firm offer to join the Big East in terms of probability. The more factors you add to the overall decision, the larger the number of players providing input into the decision, the larger the number of probabilities for different outcomes will be. You have already agreed there are many powers that be within "the Beast" that may or may not look upon SLU's participation with favor, or do so illogically. Then there is the Fox network. I assure you that Fox, the network, is infinitely more complex in its internal makeup than the powers that be within "the Beast" are, and is looking at this Big East play in a lot more dimensions than the powers that be within "the Beast" are or we ourselves are. Yes, money talks and all that, and they have a considerable amount tied into this Big East play. However money is not the only factor that will determine what Fox's decision will be. Just to mention one fact, this whole Big East play is but a line of business to the Fox network, with a budget, profit estimates, developmental expenses, etc... Their decisions as to who they want invited in will most likely take into account a lot of internal network criteria that may not be known to us or openly admitted. When you analyze this process as I have described, what you get is a very large number of possible individual decisions to be made at different levels, some at relatively low level, that may veer the whole process in unpredictable ways. We, SLU including fans and devotees of SLU, have no control over most of these individual preferences, biases, and decisions. This lack of control has nothing whatsoever to do with Biondi or May or any player inside the SLU arena, although they may indeed be able to present SLU in a very favorable light to them if given the opportunity to do so. As far as I am concerned, control of this invitation process is and will remain largely dependent upon the specific aims and biases of the active participants in the decision process. Fox's influence in this decision is likely to be very substantial. How well we get to understand what Fox and the other participants are after, what they really want to get from us out of this invitation to join them, may determine our success. Please do not take this as a negative analysis. I am definitely not saying we will remain tied to A10, although I believe A10 may try to sweeten things for us in an attempt to keep us in. I firmly believe SLU has unique characteristics and assets that would make us very attractive to Fox and the Big East. But until a firm invitation is extended to SLU all we can do, as I believe we are doing, is to try our best to show them our advantages, and the assets we will bring to the league if we are invited in. I believe we have what it takes to be an asset to them, they just have to agree and invite us in. This has not happened yet. I hope it will happen in due time. Deep stuff. I don't quite think Biondi is blameless, but he has moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I completely agree with what you say about hesitation from SLU after we are invited in being fatal to this process. However, the way you present this process presumes that SLU will be offered a participation in the Big East. What concerns me is the decision process prior to their formal offering us, or anyone else, a slot in the Big East, "the Beast" as you call it. You may look at the process of getting to a firm offer to join the Big East in terms of probability. The more factors you add to the overall decision, the larger the number of players providing input into the decision, the larger the number of probabilities for different outcomes will be. You have already agreed there are many powers that be within "the Beast" that may or may not look upon SLU's participation with favor, or do so illogically. Then there is the Fox network. I assure you that Fox, the network, is infinitely more complex in its internal makeup than the powers that be within "the Beast" are, and is looking at this Big East play in a lot more dimensions than the powers that be within "the Beast" are or we ourselves are. Yes, money talks and all that, and they have a considerable amount tied into this Big East play. However money is not the only factor that will determine what Fox's decision will be. Just to mention one fact, this whole Big East play is but a line of business to the Fox network, with a budget, profit estimates, developmental expenses, etc... Their decisions as to who they want invited in will most likely take into account a lot of internal network criteria that may not be known to us or openly admitted. When you analyze this process as I have described, what you get is a very large number of possible individual decisions to be made at different levels, some at relatively low level, that may veer the whole process in unpredictable ways. We, SLU including fans and devotees of SLU, have no control over most of these individual preferences, biases, and decisions. This lack of control has nothing whatsoever to do with Biondi or May or any player inside the SLU arena, although they may indeed be able to present SLU in a very favorable light to them if given the opportunity to do so. As far as I am concerned, control of this invitation process is and will remain largely dependent upon the specific aims and biases of the active participants in the decision process. Fox's influence in this decision is likely to be very substantial. How well we get to understand what Fox and the other participants are after, what they really want to get from us out of this invitation to join them, may determine our success. Please do not take this as a negative analysis. I am definitely not saying we will remain tied to A10, although I believe A10 may try to sweeten things for us in an attempt to keep us in. I firmly believe SLU has unique characteristics and assets that would make us very attractive to Fox and the Big East. But until a firm invitation is extended to SLU all we can do, as I believe we are doing, is to try our best to show them our advantages, and the assets we will bring to the league if we are invited in. I believe we have what it takes to be an asset to them, they just have to agree and invite us in. This has not happened yet. I hope it will happen in due time. It's 50/50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills10 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Maybe a city-county merger, like Indy has done, would make us more appealing. Being the 8th largest city would certainly hold some cache. The big question is which is more likely to happen first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills10 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (I don't actually think a merger is on the near horizon. I think the Big East is, but we have been saying that since I became a Billiken fan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Please do not take this as a negative analysis. I am definitely not saying we will remain tied to A10, although I believe A10 may try to sweeten things for us in an attempt to keep us in. I firmly believe SLU has unique characteristics and assets that would make us very attractive to Fox and the Big East. But until a firm invitation is extended to SLU all we can do, as I believe we are doing, is to try our best to show them our advantages, and the assets we will bring to the league if we are invited in. I believe we have what it takes to be an asset to them, they just have to agree and invite us in. This has not happened yet. I hope it will happen in due time. What do you envision the A10 could do that would 'sweeten' things for us? For the life of me, I can't think of anything that would make us want to stay if the Big East comes calling. Which I put at 50/50 by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Maybe a city-county merger, like Indy has done, would make us more appealing. Being the 8th largest city would certainly hold some cache. The big question is which is more likely to happen first? This would have nothing to do with anything - all Fox cares about is the size of the TV market and whether the two merge or not has no bearing on changing the # of TVs in the region that would be available. Now I agree a merge would be best for the both parties in my opinion but it has nothing to do with getting an invite or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 What do you envision the A10 could do that would 'sweeten' things for us? For the life of me, I can't think of anything that would make us want to stay if the Big East comes calling. Which I put at 50/50 by the way. I agree there is nothing I can imagine that A10 might offer SLU to successfully keep them in, once they get an offer from Big East. However, that does not mean they will not try. I have no idea what they may try to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 What do you envision the A10 could do that would 'sweeten' things for us? For the life of me, I can't think of anything that would make us want to stay if the Big East comes calling. Which I put at 50/50 by the way. [/ I don't know what Old Guy thinks the A-10 could do for SLU w/o the other members crying "foul". It's not like we're Texas FB. Plus his lengthy analysis was way over my head. Still don't know what point(s) he was trying to make. Based on what appeared to be the Beast's criteria in the first round we should be a viable candidate. In order of importance it seemed to be: - BB tradition and success. This includes national rep, fan base, commitment of admin. - private institution - Big city school/campus - FB Program is small and no intent to build it bigger, ie BB is king. - Geographic location- expansion into heartland to ease travel for non rev sports. Will the above change if they go to 12? I have no idea, but we seem to satisfy all of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 What do you envision the A10 could do that would 'sweeten' things for us? For the life of me, I can't think of anything that would make us want to stay if the Big East comes calling. Which I put at 50/50 by the way. [/ I don't know what Old Guy thinks the A-10 could do for SLU w/o the other members crying "foul". It's not like we're Texas FB. Plus his lengthy analysis was way over my head. Still don't know what point(s) he was trying to make. Based on what appeared to be the Beast's criteria in the first round we should be a viable candidate. In order of importance it seemed to be: - BB tradition and success. This includes national rep, fan base, commitment of admin. - private institution - Big city school/campus - FB Program is small and no intent to build it bigger, ie BB is king. - Geographic location- expansion into heartland to ease travel for non rev sports. Will the above change if they go to 12? I have no idea, but we seem to satisfy all of the above. Cut him some slack. After all, he is an OLD GUY... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Cut him some slack. After all, he is an OLD GUY... So am I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Well then from an old guy to another old guy, I had no intention of offending you in any way. My point was and is that we really have no way to know the details of what they are after. We are good and we hope we meet their needs, and probably will, but that is all we can say. We are not a guaranteed slam dunk in any way, at least this old guy does not think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I agree there is nothing I can imagine that A10 might offer SLU to successfully keep them in, once they get an offer from Big East. However, that does not mean they will not try. I have no idea what they may try to offer. If they were going to try to entice SLU or Dayton to stay in the A10 the would have went in a different direction with expansion. They have basically given up on keeping SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 If they were going to try to entice SLU or Dayton to stay in the A10 the would have went in a different direction with expansion. They have basically given up on keeping SLU. I think it's more a case of not wanting to keep SLU, than giving up on keeping. Without Xavier and Butler, and possibly Dayton, SLU becomes a major geographic outlier for the conference. And that's not to mention that SLU is the reigning champion. I suspect the conference wants to return to its Atlantic roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I think it's more a case of not wanting to keep SLU, than giving up on keeping. Without Xavier and Butler, and possibly Dayton, SLU becomes a major geographic outlier for the conference. And that's not to mention that SLU is the reigning champion. I suspect the conference wants to return to its Atlantic roots. At this point it is either the MVC or the Big East... no purpose of being in the A10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 At this point it is either the MVC or the Big East... no purpose of being in the A10. Twist that knife why don't ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I think it's more a case of not wanting to keep SLU, than giving up on keeping. Without Xavier and Butler, and possibly Dayton, SLU becomes a major geographic outlier for the conference. And that's not to mention that SLU is the reigning champion. I suspect the conference wants to return to its Atlantic roots. This absurd, bills fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deutschkind Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 WHOO!!! VALLEY!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 -where did this notion that SLU may not accept an invitation, if offered, spawn? we have had some batshit crazy stuff posted on here but this might just top the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 the main reason to remain in the A-10 is simply that it is still the most powerful men's basketball conference available to be in. the mvc and the horizon is a step down and will always be a step down. since this is our bread and butter sport, why would we want to be in a lesser basketball conference. case closed. however if you want to go on....... second, the A-10 is also still the conference with the most like minded schools as Saint Louis University, both philosophically and ethically. third, while there is no doubt the travel is tough and expensive, especially for the non-revenue sports, but on the other hand, the competition for the non-revenue sports would likely be far more than Saint Louis can handle. we would likely be at or near the bottom in most of the non-revenue sports in the mvc. we are extremely competitive in all sports in the the A-10. Last the A-10 still has more to do with the target geographic areas that Saint Louis University wants to farm for prospective students. Yes the new Big East gives us all the above plus is a better basketball conference by far, but we arent invited to the new Big East, thus the best place to be remains the A-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Premise (1): If P, then Q Premise (2): P Conclusion: Therefore, Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Premise (1): If P, then Q Premise (2): P Conclusion: Therefore, Q more proof that intials / acronyms dont work? i have no idea what the above means. might be last night's geometry homework? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 This absurd, bills fan. Not really. They lost 2 Midwest schools and replaced them with 2 east coast schools. Both Belmont and Valpo would have been equally good choices to maintain a Midwest footprint and an accommodation to SLU and Dayton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 -where did this notion that SLU may not accept an invitation, if offered, spawn? we have had some batshit crazy stuff posted on here but this might just top the list A few posts back. Someone said we might not accept until the new Pres arrives. I attribute it to dog days of summer wackiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 -where did this notion that SLU may not accept an invitation, if offered, spawn? we have had some batshit crazy stuff posted on here but this might just top the list It could just be all the same rumor, but I have heard from three completely (I mean completely) unrelated non-AD employees at SLU that SLU was outreached to during Biondi's Asia trip and he said he would talk to them when he got back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 It could just be all the same rumor, but I have heard from three completely (I mean completely) unrelated non-AD employees at SLU that SLU was outreached to during Biondi's Asia trip and he said he would talk to them when he got back. I've heard from a reliable source that we actually have been invited into the conference.. but the paperwork is still sitting on Biondi's desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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