So what can we take from the Canada trip?

[slu72]

Obviously not having any streaming or radio it's hard to really evaluate what we learned about the Bills on this trip. Started out great, but the 2 pretty bad losses to Carleton can't be sugar coated with excuses like still learning each other, or playing 5 games in 6 days, or not having pre game planning/strategy sessions. Granted, Carleton shot 3's at a phenomenal clip in the 1st game and we were missing KM and JJ for game 2. But still it appears this team still has a ways to go to be considered a legit candidate for the big dance. It sounded/read like the guard play of MM, KM, and JJ will be the team's biggest asset. Also, it appears BC, DE, and CE made a good showing for themselves. Didn't hear much from RL and JB, however. Is it possible RM over-hyped JB? Does RL have to toughen up to play with the A-10's inside bruisers? And where did our perimiter defense go? To say the least it was a confusing trip. 3 blow outs then 2 blow out losses. Maybe Carleton being the Duke of Canada equates to a really solid mid major program in the US. But we have to beat those level of teams to have any shot at a dance invite. Agree with those who say it's not time to find the nearest bridge, but the trip definitely took a bite out of our expectations for this being a breakthrough year.

[Scoop]

Obviously not having any streaming or radio it's hard to really evaluate what we learned about the Bills on this trip. Started out great, but the 2 pretty bad losses to Carleton can't be sugar coated with excuses like still learning each other, or playing 5 games in 6 days, or not having pre game planning/strategy sessions. Granted, Carleton shot 3's at a phenomenal clip in the 1st game and we were missing KM and JJ for game 2. But still it appears this team still has a ways to go to be considered a legit candidate for the big dance. It sounded/read like the guard play of MM, KM, and JJ will be the team's biggest asset. Also, it appears BC, DE, and CE made a good showing for themselves. Didn't hear much from RL and JB, however. Is it possible RM over-hyped JB? Does RL have to toughen up to play with the A-10's inside bruisers? And where did our perimiter defense go? To say the least it was a confusing trip. 3 blow outs then 2 blow out losses. Maybe Carleton being the Duke of Canada equates to a really solid mid major program in the US. But we have to beat those level of teams to have any shot at a dance invite. Agree with those who say it's not time to find the nearest bridge, but the trip definitely took a bite out of our expectations for this being a breakthrough year.

I wouldn't call game 2 a blow out losing by 5.

[For-DaLove]

Suprisingly our record is still 0-0 and we get to add a hall of fame coach to the equation.

[Billboy1]

The second game was out of hand until about 8 min. left in the the game. I agree there is concern considering Carleton's play against prior NCAA teams. Don't care that their two best players didn't play in those games. Doubt if Carleton could contend in a mid major conference-the caliber of BB in Canada just isn't the same. As for fatigue, they had played the previous three nights. No excuse to let them knock down all the 3s in the first game should have been an adjustment on perimeter defense. However, RM will have the boys ready when the games count.

[NashvilleBilliken]

Obviously not having any streaming or radio it's hard to really evaluate what we learned about the Bills on this trip. Started out great, but the 2 pretty bad losses to Carleton can't be sugar coated with excuses like still learning each other, or playing 5 games in 6 days, or not having pre game planning/strategy sessions. Granted, Carleton shot 3's at a phenomenal clip in the 1st game and we were missing KM and JJ for game 2. But still it appears this team still has a ways to go to be considered a legit candidate for the big dance. It sounded/read like the guard play of MM, KM, and JJ will be the team's biggest asset. Also, it appears BC, DE, and CE made a good showing for themselves. Didn't hear much from RL and JB, however. Is it possible RM over-hyped JB? Does RL have to toughen up to play with the A-10's inside bruisers? And where did our perimiter defense go? To say the least it was a confusing trip. 3 blow outs then 2 blow out losses. Maybe Carleton being the Duke of Canada equates to a really solid mid major program in the US. But we have to beat those level of teams to have any shot at a dance invite. Agree with those who say it's not time to find the nearest bridge, but the trip definitely took a bite out of our expectations for this being a breakthrough year.

I take away that my expectations were too high for the team. It is the EXCEPTION, not the rule that teams playing late in March lose to D2 or International teams in the preseason. The first game with Carleton was a blow out. I think everybody has valid points as to the excuses for the poor play, but in the end, we did get blown out by a team that we should beat based on our (wrong?) expectations going in. Do we need a hall of fame coach to beat a substantially inferior team? Do we need our star player to beat an inferior team? I say that if we are is good as we thought, we do not.

I know i'm going to get blasted, but I had this vision that the Billikens of yesteryear were gone. What this told me was that we aren't as far along as I had assumed (probably incorrectly). I'm still pulling hard for the boys to be playing in March, but the chances in my book went from "near guaranteed" to "decent chance".

[billiken_roy]

it is hard to constructively comment since we really didnt see anything beyond some 2nd hand reporting and box scores, but it seems to me guardwise we will be in very good shape. mitchell, jett, evans, mccall and cassity will likely be the deepest and overall most talented guards in our conference.

it is the rest of our roster that concerns me. i just dont think we have the likes of donnie dobbs, evan petersen, donnie campbell, david robinson and jeff harris on this team. conklin approaches them especially work ethic wise. ellis and loe might beat them in a game of horse or knock out. imo, unfortunately we need a higher level of traditional inside play that will always defend tough and rebound. are we going to get to the tourney by outshooting the other team from outside the lane each game? i Just dont think that is going to happen. live by the three and die by the three.

[jimbofive]

it is the rest of our roster that concerns me. i just dont think we have the likes of donnie dobbs, evan petersen, donnie campbell, david robinson and jeff harris on this team. conklin approaches them especially work ethic wise. ellis and loe might beat them in a game of horse or knock out. imo, unfortunately we need a higher level of traditional inside play that will always defend tough and rebound. are we going to get to the tourney by outshooting the other team from outside the lane each game? i Just dont think that is going to happen. live by the three and die by the three.

don't forget about DAT DOO, DWAYNE EVANS. dwayne evans will always defend tough and rebound. HATE HATE HATE

[billiken_roy]

don't forget about DAT DOO, DWAYNE EVANS. dwayne evans will always defend tough and rebound. HATE HATE HATE

Jimbo I had evans listed in our not a problem cadillac guards. Go back and reread the whole post. Now if your point is evans can play inside better than our supposed to be bigs, well that would only amplify what I posted. Our best inside player is one of our guards/wings

[jimbofive]

Jimbo I had evans listed in our not a problem cadillac guards. Go back and reread the whole post. Now if your point is evans can play inside better than our supposed to be bigs, well that would only amplify what I posted. Our best inside player is one of our guards/wings

question is, is he a cadillac guard, or a little engine that could forward? i'd call him another tommie liddell, at least from a rebounding perspective. and i'd call him a senior tommie liddell from a defending perspective. i think he had 12 points and 9 boards in that last game. and we know he was rebounding and scoring inside late last year. anything he can give us as a guard is gravy. i know he's not going to body up w/ kenny frease, but he'll help. the rest of the big guys, yeah, i'm worried about. remekun will play tough, but we know what he is on the offensive side of things. ellis is manning up it seems, but loe hasn't shown much yet. and manning and glaze are just freshmen.

and conklin, well... conklin is going to play out of his mind this year. that's a fact.

[moytoy12]

I take away that my expectations were too high for the team. It is the EXCEPTION, not the rule that teams playing late in March lose to D2 or International teams in the preseason. The first game with Carleton was a blow out. I think everybody has valid points as to the excuses for the poor play, but in the end, we did get blown out by a team that we should beat based on our (wrong?) expectations going in. Do we need a hall of fame coach to beat a substantially inferior team? Do we need our star player to beat an inferior team? I say that if we are is good as we thought, we do not.

I know i'm going to get blasted, but I had this vision that the Billikens of yesteryear were gone. What this told me was that we aren't as far along as I had assumed (probably incorrectly). I'm still pulling hard for the boys to be playing in March, but the chances in my book went from "near guaranteed" to "decent chance".

These are generally my thoughts. Well said, Nash.

[WVBilliken]

The Canada trip was to play lots of guys and see what they could do. So I am not concerned at all about W's and L's for those five games.

Given that, it appears the Bills are loaded at guard and a bit suspect inside. Let's hope that the Canada trip told RM what he needs to be focusing on the next couple of months to make this team a consistent winner.

Who knows, maybe we will see a little more full court ball and less half court ball this year to help offset what might be an average to below average team in the paint.

[Taj79]

Each season is a journey ..... luckily ours started in August this year and not October.

As I said going up north, camraderie and finding things to work on from August to October were what I wanted. I think we found that. Glaze and Manning obviously need work. Ellis appears back. Mitchell is the key to the engine. McCall is a keeper. So is Evans. Loe is a typical international big man which I can live with PROVIDING Glaze, Manning, Conklin and Remekun provide collectiv help on the inside.

I, like roy, still see the most urgent of needs to be on the inside. We seem destined to live and die with the outside shot ---- which has not been our strong suite. Plus I counted on us always defending. Did we do that?

The promise is still very high but w/o some help from the inside four, we will be decent more times than not .... but I still see lots of work prior to the 2012 part of the season coming aong. If Glaze, Manning and Remekun spend more time on the pine, we will not be as successful as we could be. I think we will know by mid- to late-December what Rick thinks he has ... and that will never be more evident than demonstarted i his substitution patterns.

No time to fret ......

[Taj79]

P.S. --- every team in the A10 will run multiple thugs at Kwamain to take him off his game and/or out of the game. Bank on it.

[Cowboy]

Jimbo I had evans listed in our not a problem cadillac guards. Go back and reread the whole post. Now if your point is evans can play inside better than our supposed to be bigs, well that would only amplify what I posted. Our best inside player is one of our guards/wings

-don't DE's rebounding stats from last yr include him in your classification of traditional inside play? hopefully his entire game improves including rebounding

-i do agree we seem to have very good depth at the 1 and 2 and we have not seen enough to avoid worry on the 4 and 5, there are a lot of minutes for players in these 2 spots to grab if they want them, and i hope they do and the minutes are not given to anyone

-i think DE at the 3 is good enough for at least 25 mpg, the other 15 can be from him or a combo of KC, CE, GG, JB or whoever Rick has a scheme for, to separate the 3 from either the 1-2's or the 4-5's

-the staff has 2.5 months before the start of team practice to analyze the last week and determine how they will handle this with the roster they have, but that minus1.5 rebound per game last year can't get any worse to have success i would predict

[slufan13]

We lost so many games last year where we just couldn't close it out. We easily could've won 5 more games with last years team. KM is gonna tear the league apart. You add him to the team, plus a solid shooter in JB, plus a year of experience and confidence for MM, JJ, and DE and that team is going to win a lot. KC is going to be much better playing the secondary role and he might actually contribute more from that role. CE seems to be back. BC is going to get his points. RL can hopefully shoot the ball more consistently. Obviously we need our big men to play well to reach that next level.

I think people are underestimating the impact that KM is going to have. Not only is he going to be our top scorer but he's gonna draw the other team's best defender leaving a weaker defender on MM, KC, JJ, JB, DE. Also not many people are going to be able to keep up with him so a lot of guys will be helping off their man which will allow KM to set up a lot of easy looks for our guards and big men.

I don't think you can take too much from this trip. It seems like we constantly subbed guys in and out just to play around with the matchups.

Although it would obviously be preferred, we don't need one big man to step it up all season. If we can just get one or two of them to play well each game, we'll be fine.

[jimbofive]

P.S. --- every team in the A10 will run multiple thugs at Kwamain to take him off his game and/or out of the game. Bank on it.

i know this is true and it makes my blood boil. we've never played anyone that i wanted to actually hurt or take out of the game by unfair means. except maybe tyler relph when the bonnies beat us by 20 at home and he had 25 pts on 6-6 shooting from three. i kind of wanted him to get hurt.

i'm worried about the away game at methdale, especially. if you saw how they manhandled lisch when he got hot there a couple years ago, you'd have been trying to fight everyone in the arena. lisch wasn't a baby out there, but kwamain might have even a little more meat on him and can hopefully take the beatings. and conklin will teach GG and JM all his tricks so that we're enforced for years to come.

only way to know for sure that we're safe out there is a little bit of LIGHT WEIGHT, BABY!!! YEAH, BUDDY. WOOOOOOOOOO.

[cheeseman]

Not sure what RM's goals were - everybody seems to have their own but the truth is only his counts. From what I could gather however meager the info was, we played one bad game and then played better the second time against them but it was still a loss. If we had lost the first 2 the way the last two went and won the last three the way we did the first 3 most would be crowing instead of the wall of worry some are trying to set up. We probably learned some stuff to work on and some of the guys got to play under a game situation for the first time and with all the key players so that is a plus. I doubt the coaches put together a specific game plan against each opponent which they will do for each one during the season. I am not worried at all. While I was not one who had them dancing necessarily this year I did have them making a post season tourney and still see that in the cards.

[kmbilliken]

Each season is a journey ..... luckily ours started in August this year and not October.

As I said going up north, camraderie and finding things to work on from August to October were what I wanted. I think we found that. Glaze and Manning obviously need work. Ellis appears back. Mitchell is the key to the engine. McCall is a keeper. So is Evans. Loe is a typical international big man which I can live with PROVIDING Glaze, Manning, Conklin and Remekun provide collectiv help on the inside.

I, like roy, still see the most urgent of needs to be on the inside. We seem destined to live and die with the outside shot ---- which has not been our strong suite. Plus I counted on us always defending. Did we do that?

The promise is still very high but w/o some help from the inside four, we will be decent more times than not .... but I still see lots of work prior to the 2012 part of the season coming aong. If Glaze, Manning and Remekun spend more time on the pine, we will not be as successful as we could be. I think we will know by mid- to late-December what Rick thinks he has ... and that will never be more evident than demonstarted i his substitution patterns.

No time to fret ......

If Glaze, Manning & Remeken don't spend a lot of time on the pine we'll be in trouble. Ellis needs to step up with a big year for us to be a bubble team. He has the most talent of any of our bigs and needs to use. He has the body to be a power forward and that's what we need him to be. Loe has has to hit 3s. If he doesn't he doesn't, he doesn't do anything else well enough to deserve playing time. We're really lacking enough bigs to defend and rebound. RM will be forced to play 4 guards at times with KC, JB & JJ being forced into action at poet forward.

[Clock_Tower]

Good thoughts all.

To me, what can take from the Canada trip is:

1. KM will be the man as we expected. And he returns back from Canada healthy.

2. CE is again healthy and appears to have regained his shot as we had hoped.

3. Sophomore seasons look good for JJ, MM and DE - especially now that other teams will need to focus on KM.

4. We shot it well from the outside (passed the first test) but more outside success will be needed to open the lane up for the bigs. We have been a poor outside shooting team for awhile now. Teams know this. Until we consisently make the outside shot, teams will keep packing the lane.

To me, this roadtrip has been a huge success.

[kshoe]

Before anybody jumps off the bridge regarding the two losses to Carleton, it would probably help to have some context regarding how good that team is.

1) They won the Canadian college basketball league going away last year and had the top player in the country Tyson Hinz.

2) Tyson Hinz did not play in 4 of the other 5 games they played. All of which were 10 point decisions or less.

3) How good is Tyson Hinz? He played in the University games and average 16 ppg (10th most in the tourney). Canada finished 2nd in the tourney. The U.S. team finished 5th. The U.S. team includes household names such as Marcus Denomon of Mizzou, Ashton Gibbs of Pitt, Darius Miller of UK, etc. This was not a joke tourney and Hinz is a big time player. Nearly any college in the U.S. would love to have him.

4) If people want to do the score comparison game, how bad must Virginia Tech be this year? We beat Windsor by 41 but Virginia Tech played them twice and only won by 12 and 18 (or soemthing like that). They may not win a game all year in the ACC!

Again, these are just some thoughts people should keep in mind before assuming we lost to some scrub D2 or worse team. We played one crappy game but in the final game were severely outmanned with no KM, JJ, KC and for all but 9 minutes BC. 3 starters down. Its not an excuse but rather a fact.

Now, back to finding a tall building in midtown to jump off of...

[Tonka]

i know this is true and it makes my blood boil. we've never played anyone that i wanted to actually hurt or take out of the game by unfair means. except maybe tyler relph when the bonnies beat us by 20 at home and he had 25 pts on 6-6 shooting from three. i kind of wanted him to get hurt.

i'm worried about the away game at methdale, especially. if you saw how they manhandled lisch when he got hot there a couple years ago, you'd have been trying to fight everyone in the arena. lisch wasn't a baby out there, but kwamain might have even a little more meat on him and can hopefully take the beatings. and conklin will teach GG and JM all his tricks so that we're enforced for years to come.

only way to know for sure that we're safe out there is a little bit of LIGHT WEIGHT, BABY!!! YEAH, BUDDY. WOOOOOOOOOO.

Gotta love Ronnie sporting the triple ply Inzer lifting singlet

I have met Ronnie three or four times. He's a very mild mannered guy, so this video cracked me up.

[SLU_Nick]

My takeaway.

Worried JB is not the savior that everyone was annointing for the past 18 months

-Nick

[Scoop]

Each season is a journey ..... luckily ours started in August this year and not October.

As I said going up north, camraderie and finding things to work on from August to October were what I wanted. I think we found that. Glaze and Manning obviously need work. Ellis appears back. Mitchell is the key to the engine. McCall is a keeper. So is Evans. Loe is a typical international big man which I can live with PROVIDING Glaze, Manning, Conklin and Remekun provide collectiv help on the inside.

I, like roy, still see the most urgent of needs to be on the inside. We seem destined to live and die with the outside shot ---- which has not been our strong suite. Plus I counted on us always defending. Did we do that?

The promise is still very high but w/o some help from the inside four, we will be decent more times than not .... but I still see lots of work prior to the 2012 part of the season coming aong. If Glaze, Manning and Remekun spend more time on the pine, we will not be as successful as we could be. I think we will know by mid- to late-December what Rick thinks he has ... and that will never be more evident than demonstarted i his substitution patterns.

No time to fret ......

I think CR will be just fine. With the minutes he plays, I'm calling 6 and 4 with a couple blocks a game which would be solid for the minutes he will play. I'll say 22 minutes per. Don't forget a few highlight dunks that gets the crowd going.

[slu72]

Again, I said it was a confusing trip. However, I don't think anyone on here would argue that X or Temple would likely have blown Carleton out of the gym. Now that may be unfair to Carleton, never having seen them play, but we were hoping this was the year we were gonna play with the big dogs and not pee with the puppies. I think we just lost 2 games to puppies. And they were both blowouts. We put a surge on in like the last 4 minutes of game 2 to get it down to 5. I'm not down on the Billikens, but let's be honest, if we're really a tourney team we should have taken these guys out. By not doing so we're still a work in process which leaves me with lower expectations. That said, I'm praying and hoping to be pleasantly surprised once the real season begins.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Before anybody jumps off the bridge regarding the two losses to Carleton, it would probably help to have some context regarding how good that team is.

1) They won the Canadian college basketball league going away last year and had the top player in the country Tyson Hinz.

2) Tyson Hinz did not play in 4 of the other 5 games they played. All of which were 10 point decisions or less.

3) How good is Tyson Hinz? He played in the University games and average 16 ppg (10th most in the tourney). Canada finished 2nd in the tourney. The U.S. team finished 5th. The U.S. team includes household names such as Marcus Denomon of Mizzou, Ashton Gibbs of Pitt, Darius Miller of UK, etc. This was not a joke tourney and Hinz is a big time player. Nearly any college in the U.S. would love to have him.

4) If people want to do the score comparison game, how bad must Virginia Tech be this year? We beat Windsor by 41 but Virginia Tech played them twice and only won by 12 and 18 (or soemthing like that). They may not win a game all year in the ACC!

Again, these are just some thoughts people should keep in mind before assuming we lost to some scrub D2 or worse team. We played one crappy game but in the final game were severely outmanned with no KM, JJ, KC and for all but 9 minutes BC. 3 starters down. Its not an excuse but rather a fact.

Now, back to finding a tall building in midtown to jump off of...

Nice facts. Good post.