Notes from the Billiken Club meeting

[kmbilliken]

-thanks for the updates

-Jeff Reid, get well soon

-here is my fear (or at least one of them), CE enters the game Sat at some point, gets a wide open 16ftr, throws up an airball and many in the crowd moan and get down on the kid

-i still think many have unrealistic expectations for CE, but i hope he meets all them and more

The kid plays for his national team in international competition. The baskets the same height and they use the same ball. I don't think he'll be that nervous. He may be rusty on defense and not in top shape, but if he's a shooter he'll be able to shoot.

[Westy03]

The kid plays for his national team in international competition. The baskets the same height and they use the same ball. I don't think he'll be that nervous. He may be rusty on defense and not in top shape, but if he's a shooter he'll be able to shoot.

Rick hinted at that last night saying that defense is going to be the toughest thing for Cody to pick up and it will take him all year to really get it down...

[Cowboy]

Here's the problem. People that don't go to these things are reading one person's summary of what was said then twisting it to be that Majerus is slamming a player. Then they want to re-write the way he should have tried to downplay Cody's impact. Give me a break. The man speaks for a long time, says a ton of stuff, most of it very positive, and all they can do is nit-pick somebody's interpretation of what he said.

Hell in this thread alone two people that listened to him came to dramatically different conclusions about whether redshirting was on the table or whether it was a done deal. ARon says Majerus said he'd play while the Torch said he heard from the same speech that it was still up in the air. He either said it or he didn't yet two people heard dramatically different results.

Now, we have Bauman and Roy (two people that weren't even there) basically upset by the tone at which Majerus tried to downplay expectations on Cody. Not a single person that was there has indicated it was at all inappropriate, yet these two clearly feel it was. Something is clearly getting lost in the translation.

-yep

-i don't know how many more times we need to have bauman and roy post they don't like how rick speaks in these settings, i think we get that

-i suggested to bauman he not go if it upsets him so, at least he did not attend but then got fired up by reading the accounts of the event (see Unbelievable! Way to set the bar high, Rick.)

[bauman]

He did say that he just cautioned fans that he isnt going to be very good right off the bat considering he hasnt played since July 20th. He also went on to say that he can shoot the ball extremely well for a big man, has the ability to pass very well, and has a great understanding of the game. I guess you must have had something in your ears when he said that, oh wait you werent there.

Prior to my post I read two detailed accounts of what RM said and my comments were based on that. If you had such meaningful additional information, I'm at a loss to understand where you have been up to now. Didn't you read the two detailed accounts of the evening and realize that they were misleading since they didn't include all your additional "facts." If the criteria for commenting on statements is to have been physically present to hear the statement then I suggest we shut down this Board.

Certainly the tone of "your recollected" remarks is different than the two prior posts. If in fact that is what Rick said then good for him, but why did it take this long for someone to come on the Board to correct the previous posts.

[MB73]

Rick hinted at that last night saying that defense is going to be the toughest thing for Cody to pick up and it will take him all year to really get it down...

I like RM but he likes to imply that his system is SO very complex rather than the game depending upon the players as much as others might allow.

Also, it is his way of protecting CE from criticism if CE does not look good from the outset.

Unless CE isn't in shape, I hope he gets 10-12 minutes Saturday.

This is not rocket science as some would lead you to believe.

If whole team was on new system, yes, but one talented guy can do OK without being 100% in the swing of things.

I give CE a lot of credit for living in a land with all of those big rats hopping around, I would never go near those things.

What is over / under for minutes for CE Sat? I say "8".

[bauman]

Seriously, how long does it take to type a post like this.

It would also be nice if somebody that has such strong opinions about what Majerus says and who in front of actually went to listen to him, rather than getting a second hand account and then blowing his lid because he dared to mention Andre Miller.

"Seriously," kshoe, it took about 10 minutes, and why is that any concern of yours? Did you go to the meeting? How much time did that take out of your busy schedule?

I would suggest that you take whatever time is required to form meaningful thoughts and paragraphs and worry less about my utilization of time. What in the name of %@* is meant by, "and who in front of actually went to listen to him"? Maybe you should take more time with your posts and write complete thoughts!

You just can't come across w/o including some trash talk. "Blowing his (my) lid"? I think my comments were anything but blowing my lid. I tried to post in a calm manner-and by the way, with regard to another of your posts I had no problem with the "tone" of RM's comments, but rather with the contents. I guess you and your father were there and picked up a different vibe. However, with regard to the players laughing as RM spoke, I recall the meeting a couple of months ago when the players were introduced by Rammer on the Fetz court. They were also laughing that night as Rick spoke, but I sensed a "this guy is nuts" rationale for their laughter, not gosh this guy is funny laughs.

I hope at some point you and willie also get tired of the same Utah/Andre Miller time after time after time after time comments-I can't believe that you still find these remarks acceptable. Seriously, to use your word, how many times are acceptable? Five out of five, ten out of ten, twelve out of twelve? Well he's blown by all of these. Hard to believe you two, who generally seem very rational, pick this up as a point to carry the RM shield. Hey, I said overall I'm glad he's our coach, but I'm just sipping the kool-aid as opposed to gulping it down.

[Westy03]

Prior to my post I read two detailed accounts of what RM said and my comments were based on that. If you had such meaningful additional information, I'm at a loss to understand where you have been up to now. Didn't you read the two detailed accounts of the evening and realize that they were misleading since they didn't include all your additional "facts." If the criteria for commenting on statements is to have been physically present to hear the statement then I suggest we shut down this Board.

Certainly the tone of "your recollected" remarks is different than the two prior posts. If in fact that is what Rick said then good for him, but why did it take this long for someone to come on the Board to correct the previous posts.

I have no clue why my comments werent included in the prior reports, I just thought I would add what I heard from the meeting. Willie seems to have heard the same things I heard. You and Roy are implying that Rick was slamming Cody and that couldnt be further from the truth.

[Westy03]

"Seriously," kshoe, it took about 10 minutes, and why is that any concern of yours? Did you go to the meeting? How much time did that take out of your busy schedule?

I would suggest that you take whatever time is required to form meaningful thoughts and paragraphs and worry less about my utilization of time. What in the name of %@* is meant by, "and who in front of actually went to listen to him"? Maybe you should take more time with your posts and write complete thoughts!

You just can't come across w/o including some trash talk. "Blowing his (my) lid"? I think my comments were anything but blowing my lid. I tried to post in a calm manner-and by the way, with regard to another of your posts I had no problem with the "tone" of RM's comments, but rather with the contents. I guess you and your father were there and picked up a different vibe. However, with regard to the players laughing as RM spoke, I recall the meeting a couple of months ago when the players were introduced by Rammer on the Fetz court. They were also laughing that night as Rick spoke, but I sensed a "this guy is nuts" rationale for their laughter, not gosh this guy is funny laughs.

I hope at some point you and willie also get tired of the same Utah/Andre Miller time after time after time after time comments-I can't believe that you still find these remarks acceptable. Seriously, to use your word, how many times are acceptable? Five out of five, ten out of ten, twelve out of twelve? Well he's blown by all of these. Hard to believe you two, who generally seem very rational, pick this up as a point to carry the RM shield. Hey, I said overall I'm glad he's our coach, but I'm just sipping the kool-aid as opposed to gulping it down.

Who gives a ###### if he mentions Andre Miller. I went to the meeting to get an update on how the team is progressing in his mind and see how the freshmen are doing, Rick did a great job in explaining that eventhough he went on a few tangents that went a little long. I enjoyed the meeting

[DirtyRican]

Who is Andre Miller?

[Archy McNally]

I have no clue why my comments werent included in the prior reports, I just thought I would add what I heard from the meeting. Willie seems to have heard the same things I heard. You and Roy are implying that Rick was slamming Cody and that couldnt be further from the truth.

I would like to say that the majority of us realize what you meantin light of everything that the media has put out there so far. The only people that are misinterpreting your comments are the two people that obviously have a bone to pick. Thank you for the summary and please keep doing so.

[kshoe]

"Seriously," kshoe, it took about 10 minutes, and why is that any concern of yours? Did you go to the meeting? How much time did that take out of your busy schedule?

I would suggest that you take whatever time is required to form meaningful thoughts and paragraphs and worry less about my utilization of time. What in the name of %@* is meant by, "and who in front of actually went to listen to him"? Maybe you should take more time with your posts and write complete thoughts!

You just can't come across w/o including some trash talk. "Blowing his (my) lid"? I think my comments were anything but blowing my lid. I tried to post in a calm manner-and by the way, with regard to another of your posts I had no problem with the "tone" of RM's comments, but rather with the contents. I guess you and your father were there and picked up a different vibe. However, with regard to the players laughing as RM spoke, I recall the meeting a couple of months ago when the players were introduced by Rammer on the Fetz court. They were also laughing that night as Rick spoke, but I sensed a "this guy is nuts" rationale for their laughter, not gosh this guy is funny laughs.

I hope at some point you and willie also get tired of the same Utah/Andre Miller time after time after time after time comments-I can't believe that you still find these remarks acceptable. Seriously, to use your word, how many times are acceptable? Five out of five, ten out of ten, twelve out of twelve? Well he's blown by all of these. Hard to believe you two, who generally seem very rational, pick this up as a point to carry the RM shield. Hey, I said overall I'm glad he's our coach, but I'm just sipping the kool-aid as opposed to gulping it down.

If there a single person that attended last night that thinks Rick's comments were inappropriate, please speak up. So far the only two complainers weren't there and have a well known distaste for how he speaks in public.

Bauman, you have made it painfully obvious how much you hate listening to RM speak. Fine, we all get it. No need for you to hijack any more threads with 800+ words of why you don't like it.

And for what its worth I treat the Andre Miller thing like an inside joke. Everyone knows its coming, and as long as you don't get your panties in a wad guessing when its coming can be kind of funny.

Lastly, no I was not there last night but both my parents were and they each indicated RM said nothing that should be construed as negative.

[Box and Won]

I think at the next meeting, everyone in attendance should drink whenever Maj mentions Andre Miller.

[cheeseman]

It appears that RM's comments about CE not being "good this year," took place while CE was present. Unbelievable! Way to set the bar high, Rick. I hope this "refreshing candor" that adds to RM's "charm" (Need to interject that this might be the first time in recorded history that RM and "charm" have ever been equated-good job Nark), is viewed by all as inappropriate with the player present. At least the repeated "fleshy" comment was made after CE's departure.

Also, it was good to see from a later post that numerous references to Utah Jazz, George Karl and U. of Utah players were included in the HC's rambling comments. What would any conversation with RM be like without an Andre Miller reference? As I read the two main summaries of the night, I couldn't help thinking that I had been there before. I used to attend just about all of the Billiken Club meetings, especially when the HC was going to appear. Now a promised appearance by Rick is sure to keep me away as it did last night-I have had enough of the Utah discussions and name-droppings. If he ever displays the ability to adjust to his new surroundings as the Saint Louis Billikens HC and realizes how old and worn his Utah-related references are, then this long time Bills fan will be back at the meetings my Billiken Club dues help pay for. For those of you who feel just the opposite (possibly you grew up in Utah) keep up your support-the Program needs it until we can pack the Fetz.

With regard to the Women's team has SG ever stated just how long she thinks it will take to get the Program to an acceptable level. I love her positive attitude in public, but it seems that something is wrong, either the recruiting or the gameday coaching. Clearly, Shimmy is an upgrade over Jill, but didn't we all expect to be further along by this point? I remember thinking the first time I heard SG talk-I thought that this is too good to be true-SLU will never be able to keep her-she'll be picked up by a bigtime program within a year or two. Surely, I am not the only one in the Billiken Club who thought that and therefore expected more by this point.

Finally, I don't like being defined by other posters on this Board as pro this or anti that. So let me summarize:

-Overall, glad to have RM as HC-think he is the best we have had since John Bennington. His national reputation should help in building the Program.

-Understand RM's scheduling with such a young team, but hope it improves greatly in the next two years.

-Am frequently embarrassed by certain comments made by RM, which I do not find to be cute and/or candid and which are sometimes negative reflections on young men. After many years in Management, I have noted that public embarrassment generally does NOT improve performance. Often people are defined by what they say, more than by what they do.

- Coach get some class-wear a coat on the sidelines-you're around 500 wins short of the other sports personality who was too important to conform to the dress code of 99% of all D-1 MBB HCs.

-I have high hopes that RM will, in fact, turn the SLU MBB team into a top 40 type Program. His recruiting exceeds the levels reached by any SLU HC since Rich Grawer was able to retain the best of St. Louis as Billikens---MD, RG, AB, CU, JW, SH and EC. While I still have reservations about some of the recent recruits, I see a definite uptick in most of the new players.

-On the whole, I view having RM as HC is a real positive for the future of the Program.

-Regarding other teams, I am extremely upset at how the current Men's soccer HC has allowed the Program to regress. He has had enough time and needs to be replaced. One less than satisfactory year (see UCLA MBB this year) can be accepted, but the "UCLA of Men's NCAA soccer" should not be consistently performing at their current level.

-Shimmy needs to start showing some signs of real progress within the next 3-4 years. I agree with the fact that the Women's team was treated like second class citizens prior to last year, but that is far from the case now with the new facilities. Within the next few years we need the team to be at least middle of the pact in the A-10 and over .500 with non-conf. games included.

-Give the VB HC an extension-she has accomplished what I never would have thought possible within a short amount of time-well done!

-Finally, the overall operation of the Ath. Dept needs to improve, and Fr. B. needs to decide if C. May is capable of getting that improvement. If so, great-let's get going on it (and by the way, why hasn't it improved since CM got here?). If he is not the guy to get that improvement then let's get someone who can. ( I propose Steve or Thicks)

Actually I agree with you on the Gray and Donigan points - I really think that Gray has been given a pass - she has been here at least 4 years maybe 5 and still does not have a winning season. Donigan - either he can not coach or he is a terrible judge of talent - I am tired of hearing that he had so many kids go pro a couple of years ago that he had to start from scratch - well I am not sure he won the national championship that year so what happened?

[slufanskip]

I think at the next meeting, everyone in attendance should drink whenever Maj mentions Andre Miller.

We should start a tradition. Whenever RM says the name of an ex Utah player .... everyone holds their glass up, says cheers and takes a drink. Once he figured out what was going on, I think he'd get a kick out of it. He seems to have a good sense of humor.

[Major Majerus]

Actually I agree with you on the Gray and Donigan points - I really think that Gray has been given a pass - she has been here at least 4 years maybe 5 and still does not have a winning season. Donigan - either he can not coach or he is a terrible judge of talent - I am tired of hearing that he had so many kids go pro a couple of years ago that he had to start from scratch - well I am not sure he won the national championship that year so what happened?

Gray can't keep her players - she's lost at least a starting lineup because of boyfriends. I can't criticize her recruiting - she brings in some nice talent that looks like it would develop if it would stay. The one criticism I have of her teams, and I'm a season ticket holder ( who doesn't go to every game ) is that they don't seem to value the ball. And the officiating they have to put up with...don't get me started... ;-))

[bonwich]

Thread title: Notes from the Billiken Club meeting, "Boys, eat some more."

Gray can't keep her players - she's lost at least a starting lineup because of boyfriends.

The one criticism I have of her teams...is that they don't seem to value the ball.

Must...not....overdose...on...irony............

[Quality Is Job 1]

Thread title: Notes from the Billiken Club meeting, "Boys, eat some more."

Must...not....overdose...on...irony............

Not to mention puns.

[1SLUFAN]

If there a single person that attended last night that thinks Rick's comments were inappropriate, please speak up. So far the only two complainers weren't there and have a well known distaste for how he speaks in public.

Bauman, you have made it painfully obvious how much you hate listening to RM speak. Fine, we all get it. No need for you to hijack any more threads with 800+ words of why you don't like it.

And for what its worth I treat the Andre Miller thing like an inside joke. Everyone knows its coming, and as long as you don't get your panties in a wad guessing when its coming can be kind of funny.

Lastly, no I was not there last night but both my parents were and they each indicated RM said nothing that should be construed as negative.

I was there last night and sat with 2 people who totally agreed with me that RM is an educated man who can't speak well in public without putting his foot in his mouth. I finally gave it up and walked out when the players did and they think RM is a great coach but they said they have heard the same stories at least 6-8 times so far this year. Also walked to the parking lot with people who no longer can stand to hear RM ramble on and on.

RM made me cringe when he made a comment about an Athletic Dept. Staff person not taking his unwanted food to the right player. Something about not knowing white from black. I found that to be offensive.

Talk about Billiken basketball and shut up already about your past and what wonderful players you had in past years. Who cares!!!!

[gister]

Also, it was good to see from a later post that numerous references to Utah Jazz, George Karl and U. of Utah players were included in the HC's rambling comments. What would any conversation with RM be like without an Andre Miller reference? As I read the two main summaries of the night, I couldn't help thinking that I had been there before. I used to attend just about all of the Billiken Club meetings, especially when the HC was going to appear. Now a promised appearance by Rick is sure to keep me away as it did last night-I have had enough of the Utah discussions and name-droppings. If he ever displays the ability to adjust to his new surroundings as the Saint Louis Billikens HC and realizes how old and worn his Utah-related references are, then this long time Bills fan will be back at the meetings my Billiken Club dues help pay for. For those of you who feel just the opposite (possibly you grew up in Utah) keep up your support-the Program needs it until we can pack the Fetz.

First of all, I don't think RM was inappropriate with his comments about the players, last night. I also don't feel that he said anything after the players left that the players didn't already know. However, if he had, it bothers me that some people at the meeting would run right to their computer and put it out here for all to see. Of course, the comeback to that is that if RM didn't want it spread around then he shouldn't have said it in the first place. I just feel a little uncomfortable about repeating things said in that meeting to supporters of the program, which are, in effect, "off the record".

In regard to the above quote, Bauman hits the nail on the head. I did not plan to go to the meeting because of that very reason. However, my wife needed to get out of the house so we decided to go. I was relieved when he was listed first on the program, so he would be forced to cut it short. WRONG. He went so far over time that they had to cut out one speaker. Near the end of his ramblings, two members of the staff kept inching closer to him, hoping he would get the hint. I'm not sure he ever caught on. And those continued Andre Miller references also drive me nuts. First time, ok. But here we are, well into his second year, and the same stories keep being repeated and repeated and repeated. I find it very hard to listen to him. And someone wants to consider these comments just one of his "inside jokes". If so, it's a joke that isn't funny anymore. I don't know what the percentage is, but it seems that 50% of his talks are about the Billikens and 50% are about bygone days in the NBA. I was a regular at Billiken/Tipoff club meetings in years past. Now it's down to one a year.

On the positive side, I am still hopefull that he will turn things around on the basketball floor and there certainly are signs to that effect.

[Quality Is Job 1]

First of all, I don't think RM was inappropriate with his comments about the players, last night. I also don't feel that he said anything after the players left that the players didn't already know. However, if he had, it bothers me that some people at the meeting would run right to their computer and put it out here for all to see. Of course, the comeback to that is that if RM didn't want it spread around then he shouldn't have said it in the first place. I just feel a little uncomfortable about repeating things said in that meeting to supporters of the program, which are, in effect, "off the record".

In regard to the above quote, Bauman hits the nail on the head. I did not plan to go to the meeting because of that very reason. However, my wife needed to get out of the house so we decided to go. I was relieved when he was listed first on the program, so he would be forced to cut it short. WRONG. He went so far over time that they had to cut out one speaker. Near the end of his ramblings, two members of the staff kept inching closer to him, hoping he would get the hint. I'm not sure he ever caught on. And those continued Andre Miller references also drive me nuts. First time, ok. But here we are, well into his second year, and the same stories keep being repeated and repeated and repeated. I find it very hard to listen to him. And someone wants to consider these comments just one of his "inside jokes". If so, it's a joke that isn't funny anymore. I don't know what the percentage is, but it seems that 50% of his talks are about the Billikens and 50% are about bygone days in the NBA. I was a regular at Billiken/Tipoff club meetings in years past. Now it's down to one a year.

On the positive side, I am still hopefull that he will turn things around on the basketball floor and there certainly are signs to that effect.

His third year.

[ARon]

I just feel a little uncomfortable about repeating things said in that meeting to supporters of the program, which are, in effect, "off the record".

I understand what you are saying, I really do. But in fairness, if it was meant to be "off the record" there should be no need for the compliance officer to be present. I tried to keep the information I relayed to the most meaningful points and generally positive as that was the vibe.

As the person who got this thread started I'd like to add that I did not get the impression that anything RM said to or about the players was meant or perceived negatively. He can be very honest and that is not for everyone.

He praised all of the players from DY on up in one way or another. He specifically mentioned that CR had very nice grades in some tough classes. As for the CE comments, I agree that those were mainly meant to temper some of the unreasonable expectations that have developed around CE. This mirrors Moser's comments from the first Club meeting which were along the same lines. He's still a freshman and we shouldn't expect great play right away.

So just sit back and enjoy watching the team grow.

[courtside]

Here's the problem. People that don't go to these things are reading one person's summary of what was said then twisting it to be that Majerus is slamming a player. Then they want to re-write the way he should have tried to downplay Cody's impact. Give me a break. The man speaks for a long time, says a ton of stuff, most of it very positive, and all they can do is nit-pick somebody's interpretation of what he said.

Hell in this thread alone two people that listened to him came to dramatically different conclusions about whether redshirting was on the table or whether it was a done deal. ARon says Majerus said he'd play while the Torch said he heard from the same speech that it was still up in the air. He either said it or he didn't yet two people heard dramatically different results.

Now, we have Bauman and Roy (two people that weren't even there) basically upset by the tone at which Majerus tried to downplay expectations on Cody. Not a single person that was there has indicated it was at all inappropriate, yet these two clearly feel it was. Something is clearly getting lost in the translation.

Sounds like a soccer thread. I wonder if those people know SLU hasn't won a National Title in soccer in 36 years. I also wonder if they know that 8 African American kids played for this year's National Title team, and that one other Final Four team had a 25percent AA roster and several key players were AA on both of the other Final Four teams.

[mcglotherirvin]

I think a lot of people on here don't have a sense I humor and it's kind of sad. Personally I think the jokes are funny. I am also very relieved to have some true candor from a coach as opposed to hearing about how good new guys like John seyfert, obi ikeakor, and Horace dixon are going to be. Or hearing how we decided not to use scholarships for yet another semester because we couldn't find the right guys.

Why is it so annoying to hear about Andre miller. Majerus is proud of his old players. You hear him talk more about Luke meyer and Kevin lisch than Keith van horn. Is that annoying also?

Wer you folks also annoyed when sodie would talk about his days at wisconsin and how he recruited Devin Harris. Don't know how many times I heard that yet you aren't complaining about it.

Sounds like a soccer thread. I wonder if those people know SLU hasn't won a National Title in soccer in 36 years. I also wonder if they know that 8 African American kids played for this year's National Title team, and that one other Final Four team had a 25percent AA roster and several key players were AA on both of the other Final Four teams.

[kevinfootes]

What percentage of the younger, regular posters on this board are going to wonder why a billikens.com poster gets honored at halftime.

Didn't you see this coming?

[thetorch]

We rail and rail on SLU keeping secrets for years, now we have posters who want what is said at a Billiken Club meeting to be kept hush hush??????

I took two friends to the meeting last night along with my father. None of us was asked for any ID. We just walked in. Is this not the policy? I didn't realize these meetings were top secret. I've only been going to them for 20 years.

To clarify on Rick's remarks about white and black people. He gave the staffer a plate of food and told her to give it to Jon Smith. She gave it to CE and CS who were sitting at a different table than JS. He made a remark like no Jon Smith is a black guy.

I found it remarkable that an athletic dept staff person doesn't know who the scholarship athletes are. Majerus lightly chided her. It was deserved and the comments were not offensive.