OT: Fontbonne to shutdown

[brianstl]

I thought it would be Webster first.  I think this is just the beginning of a reckoning for many schools across the country.

 

[wgstl]

Seem like this Whole thing was in the works for the last couple months to a year,I’m surprised it’s now finally official.

 

washU is using the space to improve athletics. Strongly doubt it ever happens but I’m surprised they didn’t go ivy league at some point.

 

 

[cheeseman]

They have been in financial distress for some time now - like any situation like this eventually you just can't keep the lights on.  I have a niece whose husband in finishing up next year at the school so thankfully he can finish without having to transfer someplace else, but I do feel sorry for those who can't finish by next year.

[Old guy]

31 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Seem like this Whole thing was in the works for the last couple months to a year,I’m surprised it’s now finally official.

 

washU is using the space to improve athletics. Strongly doubt it ever happens but I’m surprised they didn’t go ivy league at some point.

 

 

I think Wash U is closer in academical approach to other elite Universities in the Midwest, like U of Chicago, Northwestern, U of IL Urbana Champaign, than to the IVYs. I could see the creation of a midwestern, plus perhaps some elite Southern schools like Duke and U of VA, than a union with  the IVYs. Sports may become a problem with the creation of a Midwestern Elite league.

[Lord Elrond]

25 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I think Wash U is closer in academical approach to other elite Universities in the Midwest, like U of Chicago, Northwestern, U of IL Urbana Champaign, than to the IVYs. I could see the creation of a midwestern, plus perhaps some elite Southern schools like Duke and U of VA, than a union with  the IVYs. Sports may become a problem with the creation of a Midwestern Elite league.

Wash U is in a conference with schools it regards as its academic peers: the University Athletic Association (aka, the Egghead Eight) with Brandeis University, Carnegie-Mellon, Case Western Reserve, Emory University, New York University, University of Chicago, and University of Rochester. Lots of academic credentials there. When Johns Hopkins was in the conference, it was known as the Nerdy Nine.

[Cowboy II]

37 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

They have been in financial distress for some time now - like any situation like this eventually you just can't keep the lights on.  I have a niece whose husband in finishing up next year at the school so thankfully he can finish without having to transfer someplace else, but I do feel sorry for those who can't finish by next year.

-doesn't that require the professors/instructors in the area where they are studying to stay? if say, studying nursing and there are no instructors what are they to do?

[JMM28]

does Fontbonne have a baseball field we can buy?

[cheeseman]

42 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-doesn't that require the professors/instructors in the area where they are studying to stay? if say, studying nursing and there are no instructors what are they to do?

My guess is they could use adjuncts or maybe offer a financial incentive for some to stay or even pay to have those who have one year left to go someplace else if necessary.  

[Old guy]

40 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Wash U is in a conference with schools it regards as its academic peers: the University Athletic Association (aka, the Egghead Eight) with Brandeis University, Carnegie-Mellon, Case Western Reserve, Emory University, New York University, University of Chicago, and University of Rochester. Lots of academic credentials there. When Johns Hopkins was in the conference, it was known as the Nerdy Nine.

OK, I was not aware about this Egghhead Eight arrangement but it is completely in character with the schools named. They belong where they are and so does Johns Hopkins.

As far as buying part of the acreage belonging to Fontbonne currently, just forget it, there is nothing else right next to Wash U available for their expansion.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

I think Wash U is closer in academical approach to other elite Universities in the Midwest, like U of Chicago, Northwestern, U of IL Urbana Champaign, than to the IVYs. I could see the creation of a midwestern, plus perhaps some elite Southern schools like Duke and U of VA, than a union with  the IVYs. Sports may become a problem with the creation of a Midwestern Elite league.

No way NW leaves the Big 10 or Duke the ACC.  The same for U of IL.  

[Old guy]

1 minute ago, cheeseman said:

No way NW leaves the Big 10 or Duke the ACC.  The same for U of IL.  

They do not need to, Wash U and the other schools mentioned above, have that situation under control. No need for the  IVYs.

[Lord Elrond]

6 minutes ago, Old guy said:

As far as buying part of the acreage belonging to Fontbonne currently, just forget it, there is nothing else right next to Wash U available for their expansion.

There’s no way a land-locked university like Wash U passes up buying a parcel of land adjacent to their main campus. Even if they don’t know what to do with it, pay a premium for it. They are not building more land near your campus ever. 
 

Harris-Stowe is also having enrollment problems. If the State of Missouri decides it’s cheaper to just have the students go to UMSL instead, SLU should buy that land regardless of price. You can figure out what to do with it later.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

52 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

does Fontbonne have a baseball field we can buy?

Does this mean Lance Thornhill is available

[OkieBilliken]

50 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

does Fontbonne have a baseball field we can buy?

Their baseball team was playing down here last week in a big baseball tournament I went to on Saturday.  I wonder if they knew this was the end for them.  

[TRN]

The most notable sports achievement I remember from Fontbonne was their women’s basketball team ending Wash U’s winning streak.  That bus ride for Wash U was just too much to overcome.

[CenHudDude]

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

I thought it would be Webster first.  I think this is just the beginning of a reckoning for many schools across the country.

 

The NYS Comptroller today said that the state’s public and private colleges and universities are at an enrollment cliff.  You are correct that the day of reckoning is coming for schools across the country.

[Lord Elrond]

30 minutes ago, CenHudDude said:

The NYS Comptroller today said that the state’s public and private colleges and universities are at an enrollment cliff.  You are correct that the day of reckoning is coming for schools across the country.

Universities and colleges have overbuilt capacity. There are hard times coming for both public and private colleges. More closures and consolidations are coming, at least SLU was bucking the declining enrollment trend (enrollment increased last fall, few other universities could say the same).  All those knocking Fred Pestello on here need to bear in mind what else he’s dealing with outside athletics. 

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, Old guy said:

They do not need to, Wash U and the other schools mentioned above, have that situation under control. No need for the  IVYs.

Yes but my response was to your post.  I knew they were in an athletic union.

[cheeseman]

Typically institutions such as schools, churches, and other organizations tend to think that growth is unlimited.  They never understand that the birth rate goes up and down and it takes years for the bulge or lack of a bulge takes years to pass.  I remember a parish we attended wanted to build an elementary school and I happened to be doing long range enrollment projections for the local school district.  I explained to the parish power to be that the longer term trend was for a decrease in the pool of students due to the birth rates.  Their desire to build outweighed their rational thinking.  The school district had made plans by redistricting rather than building in the areas that were crowded.  The parish school opened with great fanfare and a somewhat robust enrollment.  10 years later the school is fighting the pressures to close or consolidate with a neighboring parish.  Colleges are no different, but I do think that in the case of Fontbonne and Webster there were some poor fiscal decisions made that may have hastened their ultimate demise.  SLU apparently saw the handwriting and made tough decisions - remember when they shed a bunch of degree programs a few years ago?

[Old guy]

Cheeseman, first I was not aware that these Div II schools were in an athletic union. Second the lack of people in churches and in colleges or parishes is due to a lot of factors. For example Catholic church attendance has gone straight down because they demand a lot of money to be a member of a parish, and because the church has lost meaning for a lot of people. A lot of these people leaving the Catholic church are attending the evangelical family churches instead. The difference is that the catholic church simply does not make you feel like family and the evangelicals do. Please do not believe me if you do not wish to do so.

Colleges relied for a fair amount of time upon foreign students to fill their student quotas and they were also a significantly less expensive to attend. However, foreign attendance is down, and tuition, particularly for private schools, is way up. For example tuition at the Georgetown School of Medicine was $2000 per year when I attended in the late 1960s. My daughter who attended Case Western Reserve School of Medicine still has over a $100,000 of tuition debt for med school. She graduated in the early 2000s. 

It does not take a genius to understand that a degree from a Public College/University, costs a lot less than attending a private College/University. SLU may be one among few Universities with attendance increase, good for them. Shedding programs that do not have enough enrollment to produce profits was a good move. 

[cheeseman]

10 hours ago, Old guy said:

Cheeseman, first I was not aware that these Div II schools were in an athletic union. Second the lack of people in churches and in colleges or parishes is due to a lot of factors. For example Catholic church attendance has gone straight down because they demand a lot of money to be a member of a parish, and because the church has lost meaning for a lot of people. A lot of these people leaving the Catholic church are attending the evangelical family churches instead. The difference is that the catholic church simply does not make you feel like family and the evangelicals do. Please do not believe me if you do not wish to do so.

Colleges relied for a fair amount of time upon foreign students to fill their student quotas and they were also a significantly less expensive to attend. However, foreign attendance is down, and tuition, particularly for private schools, is way up. For example tuition at the Georgetown School of Medicine was $2000 per year when I attended in the late 1960s. My daughter who attended Case Western Reserve School of Medicine still has over a $100,000 of tuition debt for med school. She graduated in the early 2000s. 

It does not take a genius to understand that a degree from a Public College/University, costs a lot less than attending a private College/University. SLU may be one among few Universities with attendance increase, good for them. Shedding programs that do not have enough enrollment to produce profits was a good move. 

Washinton U is a D3 school.  Of course, other factors enter into what has happened but the basic point I was making was that the lower birth rate alone spelled trouble ahead,

[cgeldmacher]

19 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

There’s no way a land-locked university like Wash U passes up buying a parcel of land adjacent to their main campus. Even if they don’t know what to do with it, pay a premium for it. They are not building more land near your campus ever. 
 

Harris-Stowe is also having enrollment problems. If the State of Missouri decides it’s cheaper to just have the students go to UMSL instead, SLU should buy that land regardless of price. You can figure out what to do with it later.

Surface parking across from Chaifetz would be a start.

[Old guy]

I have no interest in D2 or D3 schools, but many of them are not lacking money or prestige, what they lack is an interest in sports.

11 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Washinton U is a D3 school.  Of course, other factors enter into what has happened but the basic point I was making was that the lower birth rate alone spelled trouble ahead,

 

[Billikenbooster]

Maybe turn it into a first class baseball facility!!!!