GDT: SLU v. Drake

[billikenfan05]

49 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Ford has to trust the freshmen especially the bigs. Even against a team without a dominant big man like Drake, we just need someone with height protecting the rim. We went too small too often in the 2nd half. 

BIN FUOKING GO

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, GOSLU68 said:

If you can’t hear or see the improvement in those not currently injured or missing you are most certainly a half empty person. This team played well together last night. They attacked on defense. They could have used MM or LH2 shooting. 
with the true bigs lanes seem to open better for Jimmerson. Dalger, Thames, Courcic add some zest on defense.

Nobody is denying any of this. But at the end of the day, the discussion on Ford begins and ends with: this is his 6th year, he did not make the tournament with his best roster last season and he started digging the hole, that is the roster issues, that has turned into a massive sinkhole, when he ran off Cisse and Traore thinking he could find better. Is this all acceptable for a guy being paid 2.5 million dollars per year?

[Soderball]

11 minutes ago, dlarry said:

Did not hear the post game.

Was Ford critical of SVB and Bruce?

It thought they played well.

Bruce & SVB have very awkward hand, arm, and footwork at this point. They just kinda look like deer in the headlights on plays where they aren't quite sure what to do. Bruce gets stuck with the ball up at the top of the key too often and noone is there to get the ball from him. They can't put it on the floor very well

I think Bruce especially when what he needs to do in a play is clear he is very effective. However, when he's left wondering what the decision should be, ends up thinking about it, and makes a mistake. He desperately needs good coaching.

When he's got something he clearly needs to do(e.g. crash the rim for a putback) he is pretty effective. I liked the hook shot he's shown a couple times but we will see if that becomes a consistent threat.

 

Regardless of how good they are or not, they HAVE to be on the floor. Playing Hargrove at center is a recipe for disaster. If Bruce just stands in the paint with his arms raised he is already doing enough to have to be on the floor. This team is way too short at the guard and forward spots to not have some reach out there to make shots more difficult and block sightlines. We aren't exactly playing 6 9 and 6 10 forwards. Bruce or SVB are the only guys with real height we got. Thames is pretty tall, Hargrove can play taller due to his jump, but the center position exists for a reason.

[johnbj14]

Same story, different chapter. Kudos to the guys for playing really well short-handed for 20 minutes, and I have no issue with the heart of this team, but it’s painfully obvious change is needed with the adults in the room. 

[drkelsey55]

I didn't watch or listen to the game as I was playing Hold'em poker.

I followed the score on my phone. 

When it as over I commented to others who where interested that "I bet Ford made some bad moves in the second half". An easy call!

 

[willie]

9 minutes ago, Soderball said:

Bruce & SVB have very awkward hand, arm, and footwork at this point. They just kinda look like deer in the headlights on plays where they aren't quite sure what to do. Bruce gets stuck with the ball up at the top of the key too often and noone is there to get the ball from him. They can't put it on the floor very well

I think Bruce especially when what he needs to do in a play is clear he is very effective. However, when he's left wondering what the decision should be, ends up thinking about it, and makes a mistake. He desperately needs good coaching.

When he's got something he clearly needs to do(e.g. crash the rim for a putback) he is pretty effective. I liked the hook shot he's shown a couple times but we will see if that becomes a consistent threat.

 

Regardless of how good they are or not, they HAVE to be on the floor. Playing Hargrove at center is a recipe for disaster. If Bruce just stands in the paint with his arms raised he is already doing enough to have to be on the floor. This team is way too short at the guard and forward spots to not have some reach out there to make shots more difficult and block sightlines. We aren't exactly playing 6 9 and 6 10 forwards. Bruce or SVB are the only guys with real height we got. Thames is pretty tall, Hargrove can play taller due to his jump, but the center position exists for a reason.

I know this is easier said then done but we need to change our offense when Bruce is in the game. He should not be positioned at the top of the key handling the ball. He needs to be on the low post hopefully taking up space and a defender or two. Ford has build his offense on TJ at the key hopefully opening up the floor. I think TJ has done a good job of this but doesn't work with Bruce. 

[Scoop]

To save some time just copy and paste this thread after every loss. It’s the same sh*t. Better try to turn all this negative energy into some positive vibes to support the team ‘cause if Dr. C doesn’t pull out his check book, Ford is not going anywhere. Facts.

[slufan13]

There are way too many people happy/encouraged that we played hard yesterday. That's how you know it's hit rock bottom. 

[TheA_Bomb]

8 minutes ago, willie said:

I know this is easier said then done but we need to change our offense when Bruce is in the game. He should not be positioned at the top of the key handling the ball. He needs to be on the low post hopefully taking up space and a defender or two. Ford has build his offense on TJ at the key hopefully opening up the floor. I think TJ has done a good job of this but doesn't work with Bruce. 

I don't agree. Often your C will be up top he sets a pick and then rolls to the hoop. You hope they switch on the screen and you get a mismatch.

If they flare screen then someone like Gibby who doesn't need much space to shoot gets a shot off. If it's Thames in that has the ball on the flare then the lane should be open for a drive as the C has pulled his defender with him out of the lane.

This is why it's done, it's just not executed effectively by SLU.

[billikenfan05]

1 minute ago, slufan13 said:

There are way too many people happy/encouraged that we played hard yesterday. That's how you know it's hit rock bottom. 

Exactly. We shouldn't be ranked below 150 in a "down year" let alone 200. As a steward of the program Ford has failed at meeting the basic upward expectations and is now failing to meet basic caretaking expectations. 

[johnbj14]

7 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Exactly. We shouldn't be ranked below 150 in a "down year" let alone 200. As a steward of the program Ford has failed at meeting the basic upward expectations and is now failing to meet basic caretaking expectations. 

Year 8 of the highest paid coach in the conference and the program is trending downward. This was sold as a rebuild, and 80% of the starting lineup is seniors when healthy. The time is long overdue for a new direction. 

[slufan13]

13 minutes ago, Scoop said:

To save some time just copy and paste this thread after every loss. It’s the same sh*t. Better try to turn all this negative energy into some positive vibes to support the team ‘cause if Dr. C doesn’t pull out his check book, Ford is not going anywhere. Facts.

All of billikens.com needs to support Major League Pickleball. Based on the trajectory of that league, we may have Ford until he's old enough to collect social security. 

[Soderball]

10 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Exactly. We shouldn't be ranked below 150 in a "down year" let alone 200. As a steward of the program Ford has failed at meeting the basic upward expectations and is now failing to meet basic caretaking expectations. 

We've turned into DePaul.

[Pistol]

Hofstra won again last night, beating Iona on the road. Their top two scorers were off and only combined for 20 - they averaged a combined 44 heading into the game. (Credit to Iona's defense, too; they still have some guys who ate our lunch last season.)

Maybe Hofstra will overlook SLU because of their game at Duke next Tuesday.

[TRN]

46 minutes ago, Scoop said:

To save some time just copy and paste this thread after every loss. It’s the same sh*t. Better try to turn all this negative energy into some positive vibes to support the team ‘cause if Dr. C doesn’t pull out his check book, Ford is not going anywhere. Facts.

Why does it have to be Chaifetz?  There are other donors too.  

Ford is the top paid SLU employee by a mile, he needs to produce or be shown the door.  
 

Injuries happen, but that’s why you build a deep roster.  And the excuse of two players being ineligible is on the head coach.  Recruit and vet players you KNOW will be available.  So, maybe don’t bring in a big that’s already gone through the portal and put your fate in the hands of the NCAA.

[dlarry]

51 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

There are way too many people happy/encouraged that we played hard yesterday. That's how you know it's hit rock bottom. 

 

47 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Exactly. We shouldn't be ranked below 150 in a "down year" let alone 200. As a steward of the program Ford has failed at meeting the basic upward expectations and is now failing to meet basic caretaking expectations. 

I am happy with their play last night compared to other games but that doesn’t mean I am encouraged.

This team is awful.

Ford needs to go.

There needs to be a major overall when it comes to the basketball program.

All that said I am still going to watch every game. 
people know where I stand on Ford. 

So if I see things that I like about a game I’m not going to pretend I don’t just because I want Ford gone. 

Being happy about how a crappy team played does not mean you are happy with the program. 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I watched a breakdown of Loyola Final 4 defense the other day and it talked about how they didn't use help defense. Pretty interesting going against the norm but it worked. Gotta have very good on ball defenders. They had Krutwig who wasn't very athletic but was smart. 

But I agree we're not helping out. If you're not in correct position you get a lot of reaching fouls too.

Loyola video

I really enjoy Hoops Vision on YouTube

https://youtu.be/1cxcJB8kC9o?si=VxEoiZdtYQkz4XAn

 

imo reaching in files is either lazy or lack of athleticism to use their quickness to stay in front of a player.   most times imo it is lazy.   

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, Soderball said:

Bruce & SVB have very awkward hand, arm, and footwork at this point. They just kinda look like deer in the headlights on plays where they aren't quite sure what to do. Bruce gets stuck with the ball up at the top of the key too often and noone is there to get the ball from him. They can't put it on the floor very well

I think Bruce especially when what he needs to do in a play is clear he is very effective. However, when he's left wondering what the decision should be, ends up thinking about it, and makes a mistake. He desperately needs good coaching.

When he's got something he clearly needs to do(e.g. crash the rim for a putback) he is pretty effective. I liked the hook shot he's shown a couple times but we will see if that becomes a consistent threat.

 

Regardless of how good they are or not, they HAVE to be on the floor. Playing Hargrove at center is a recipe for disaster. If Bruce just stands in the paint with his arms raised he is already doing enough to have to be on the floor. This team is way too short at the guard and forward spots to not have some reach out there to make shots more difficult and block sightlines. We aren't exactly playing 6 9 and 6 10 forwards. Bruce or SVB are the only guys with real height we got. Thames is pretty tall, Hargrove can play taller due to his jump, but the center position exists for a reason.

ford hasnt had a credible big man coach his entire tenure here at slu.  that's his fault.   and makes no sense imo.   he was a guard when he played one would think he would surround himself with coaches that knew the other positions at least a couple of them. 

[NextYearBill]

here is when i knew it was all over:

 

SLU upset by SIUE 69-67

[thunderdan]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

As much as it appeared he was selfish, he was doing it.   

This is the thing that stuck out to me. When Parker went down, I (mistakenly) thought the offense may actually function more fluidly. 

My thought process was, “Parker NEVER passes the ball. At least this new situation would force more ball movement, more screens, and less standing around and watching Sincere.”

Boy, was I wrong.

[billiken_roy]

Just now, thunderdan said:

This is the thing that stuck out to me. When Parker went down, I (mistakenly) thought the offense may actually function more fluidly. 

My thought process was, “Parker NEVER passes the ball. At least this new situation would force more ball movement, more screens, and less standing around and watching Sincere.”

Boy, was I wrong.

hahahaha  i went to look at the stats to make an editorial comment about his selfishness and be able to back up my claims.  but i was hit in the face with stats i've never seen from a billiken guard per shooting percentages.  i thought, "hell he is doing this at such a high level, how can we argue with it?"  

i miss him getting the ball on the left wing with the shot clock running down and he takes off across the lane and scores either by flat out beating his man and going to the basket or a sudden stop and soft fadeaway.   he is a scorer.   and he defines the old spoon to highmark legendary quote, "if you arent going to play much defense, make sure you outscore your man".

[Soderball]

20 minutes ago, thunderdan said:

This is the thing that stuck out to me. When Parker went down, I (mistakenly) thought the offense may actually function more fluidly. 

My thought process was, “Parker NEVER passes the ball. At least this new situation would force more ball movement, more screens, and less standing around and watching Sincere.”

Boy, was I wrong.

Talent is talent and there is no substitute for it.

 

Coaching can make talent better, but without talent the coaching is pointless.

[Soderball]

17 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hahahaha  i went to look at the stats to make an editorial comment about his selfishness and be able to back up my claims.  but i was hit in the face with stats i've never seen from a billiken guard per shooting percentages.  i thought, "hell he is doing this at such a high level, how can we argue with it?"  

i miss him getting the ball on the left wing with the shot clock running down and he takes off across the lane and scores either by flat out beating his man and going to the basket or a sudden stop and soft fadeaway.   he is a scorer.   and he defines the old spoon to highmark legendary quote, "if you arent going to play much defense, make sure you outscore your man".

Yep well said Roy. I think he's also just hit in the face with him and Jimerson being the only serious scorers on this roster. I'm perfectly fine with Jimerson or Parker jacking a NBA range trey with this roster we have. That's a good offensive shot for us when the options are so limited. Why pass the ball when the only option is for them to pass it back to him? Just creates an opportunity to turn it over or have Dalger touch the ball.

[cheeseman]

44 minutes ago, thunderdan said:

This is the thing that stuck out to me. When Parker went down, I (mistakenly) thought the offense may actually function more fluidly. 

My thought process was, “Parker NEVER passes the ball. At least this new situation would force more ball movement, more screens, and less standing around and watching Sincere.”

Boy, was I wrong.

The same thing has been going on for some time here - whether it was Yuri, Jordan, or Perkins - Ford's offense is not one that involves the entire team.  With no real big man to go high low and high again his offense is just what you said - standing around watching the guy with the ball.

[VeniceMenace]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Nobody is denying any of this. But at the end of the day, the discussion on Ford begins and ends with: this is his 6th year, he did not make the tournament with his best roster last season and he started digging the hole, that is the roster issues, that has turned into a massive sinkhole, when he ran off Cisse and Traore thinking he could find better. Is this all acceptable for a guy being paid 2.5 million dollars per year?

And not recruiting at least two eligible upperclass bigs means extraordinary efforts go by the wayside…because people like Jimmer and TJ are totally gassed. Chances if they are lower with veteran bigs on the roster.