GDT: NIT First Round, SLU vs. UNI

[AnkielBreakers]

Get a grip everyone. We lost an A10 first team point guard hours before the game. We all knew that one player was the only position where we didn’t have a good backup. It showed.

How did SBU do with Lofton or Ossun? They lost by 40 and 20 respectively. If you do not have a backup, then things can fall apart. But, it is one game.

Positives: we now see the number area where we need to improve this off-season, PG depth.

[wgstl]

UNI should have an even better team next year, good on them. 

[CBFan]

10 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Back to back blowouts to finish the year. Yikes. 

This is what disturbs me the most and add Davidson had 2 blowouts wins.

No changes by the coach to fix defending the 3.

Also the coach never fixed when the team goes into panic mode when the team starts chucking shots, turnovers and forgets to defend.

I have been patient and if the team was competitive in the 3 losses instead of blowouts I could remain patient.  This is a disturbing pattern for this team.

[HoosierPal]

9 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Get a grip everyone. We lost an A10 first team point guard hours before the game. We all knew that one player was the only position where we didn’t have a good backup. It showed.

How did SBU do with Lofton or Ossun? They lost by 40 and 20 respectively. If you do not have a backup, then things can fall apart. But, it is one game.

Positives: we now see the number area where we need to improve this off-season, PG depth.

Dayton did okay last night without their star point guard, in the same NIT where we failed without our star point guard.

We don't win this game with or without Collins.  He didn't stop Davidson from bombing us with three pointers.  He wouldn't have stopped UNI from bombing us with three pointers.  Okay maybe we lose by 10, but we lose.  UNI took their foot off our neck in the last 4 minutes.

[ThreeTimeBilliken]

I am assuming the Big East is still the goal. If it is, Ford is not the guy to get us there. 
if it is not, get out of the A10. The travel wears on these kids. 
 

The Big East wants the St. Louis Market. They don’t want a crap team however. 
 

If SLU can get three straight tournament appearances, I think SLU and Dayton will get an invite. 
 

Regardless, Ford is not the future. 

[wgstl]

5 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Dayton did okay last night without their star point guard, in the same NIT where we failed without our star point guard.

We don't win this game with or without Collins.  He didn't stop Davidson from bombing us with three pointers.  He wouldn't have stopped UNI from bombing us with three pointers.  Okay maybe we lose by 10, but we lose.  UNI took their foot off our neck in the last 4 minutes.

UD had a few days to adjust, we had an hour. 
 

I got the feeling early on that we also really didn’t want to play in this. Everyone was flat. Was it because they were blinded by yuris news? Thought this team was ncaa or bust mid conf?  Who knows. 

[TheA_Bomb]

Yuri being out hours before the game is a viable excuse for this one game.  It's the whole body of work that is the problem.  1 A10 Tournament Championship, 1 NCAA bid from that season.  No at large bids.   No post season wins, no conference finishes above 4th.  No wins over ranked teams.  Despite very good recruiting, very good facilities, very good support, in a good location for basketball. 

 

Does there seem to be a coherent plan to recruiting to a system/type?  Does there seem to be a viable offensive/defensive strategy?  I don't see it.  I also see a mixed bag on player development with the majority of players not improving.  The sum is never greater than the parts here.  Your team needs to be cohesive and roles fit into a system/identity in order to win. 

I hope Perkins comes back and we see a team that is effective and wins top 3 in conference gets a bid to dance.  I just have no data that would lead me to believe that is likely.

[ARon]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

When Ford was hired those who were not all that on board with it were concerned about his X and Os performance and I was one. He could get better players but his teams never achieved as they should. What we have seen after these years is basically just that here. While I am a big supporter of the Bills it is hard to be happy with the trajectory. Yes we have had more 20 plus win seasons then most times under Ford but to what avail?  I know we did not have Yuri tonight but we have lost to other teams whose point guards were out - what is the difference?  The single common thread is the concern some had when he was hired. 

Two questions: 1. Are any of you concerned about Ford statement that seemed to imply that some players aren’t working to improve in the off season?  Whose is responsible for that - yes I know the players ultimately but doesn’t the coach have a part?  2. Someone said players were angry what did they mean?  I was out of town and missed the game so if my question is off base I apologize 

 

48 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

How many times this year have we said this.  Some teams do defend the three so how do they do it?  Hitting threes is contagious and once that ball starts rolling down the hill it is hard to stop. Same applies when threes are missed  RM team generally defended the three pretty well so it can be done. 

Even when our defense has been good under Ford it has never approached RM-level good. And I think we all know it never will if we're honest.

As for his post-game comments, it feels like the only players we should be confident in seeing back next year are Yuri, Gibson, Fred, and Franco. Not to say anyone specific will be told to leave. But everyone else may get the "You aren't guaranteed a spot in the playing rotation going forward."-talk as they wrap up the year. 

[SLUDrew]

Didn't we shoot 52% in the first half? That doesn't seem flat or disinterested to me. The fact of the matter is that right on the heels of getting blown of the the gym by a team raining threes on us, we allowed our very next opponent to do the same thing. 

[SLUDrew]

3 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Yuri being out hours before the game is a viable excuse for this one game.  It's the whole body of work that is the problem.  1 A10 Tournament Championship, 1 NCAA bid from that season.  No at large bids.   No post season wins, no conference finishes above 4th.  No wins over ranked teams.  Despite very good recruiting, very good facilities, very good support, in a good location for basketball. 

 

Does there seem to be a coherent plan to recruiting to a system/type?  Does there seem to be a viable offensive/defensive strategy?  I don't see it.  I also see a mixed bag on player development with the majority of players not improving.  The sum is never greater than the parts here.  Your team needs to be cohesive and roles fit into a system/identity in order to win. 

I hope Perkins comes back and we see a team that is effective and wins top 3 in conference gets a bid to dance.  I just have no data that would lead me to believe that is likely.

Excellent post. I agree with nearly everything said. I think one of the greatest compliments you can give a coach is that his teams are better than their "talent" would indicate they should be.  I don't remember thinking that was ever the case with a Ford Billiken team. In fact I feel like we are almost always the opposite.

Last night's game perfectly encapsulates this point; it did not take a coach or scout to recognize the HUGE gap in athletic ability between the two team. One team ran a system to perfection and one team relied too much one-on-one play and forced terrible shots. 

[HoosierPal]

28 minutes ago, wgstl said:

UD had a few days to adjust, we had an hour. 
 

I got the feeling early on that we also really didn’t want to play in this. Everyone was flat. Was it because they were blinded by yuris news? Thought this team was ncaa or bust mid conf?  Who knows. 

We could have had a week to adjust to no Collins, and still lost last night.  The WIDE OPEN three's were inexcusable.  How many times did Okoro look like a deer in headlights as he belatedly (amongst other Billikens) ran out to the arc? 

We could have had Collins, Perkins, French and Goodwin and still lost last night. We don't defend the arc, we don't defend the pick and roll. 

[cheeseman]

20 minutes ago, ARon said:

 

Even when our defense has been good under Ford it has never approached RM-level good. And I think we all know it never will if we're honest.

As for his post-game comments, it feels like the only players we should be confident in seeing back next year are Yuri, Gibson, Fred, and Franco. Not to say anyone specific will be told to leave. But everyone else may get the "You aren't guaranteed a spot in the playing rotation going forward."-talk as they wrap up the year. 

That is a lot of players to replace if you are right. 

[dlarry]

11 minutes ago, SLUDrew said:

Didn't we shoot 52% in the first half? That doesn't seem flat or disinterested to me. The fact of the matter is that right on the heels of getting blown of the the gym by a team raining threes on us, we allowed our very next opponent to do the same thing. 

Exactly.

When this team get smacked in the mouth they don’t fight back they fall down.

we saw it over and over again. Twice against Davidson, last night, and all the second half collapses. 

[willie]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

Exactly. Does it make sense to switch to a zone when playing a team that depends on their 3s for their points? I always thought zones were employed to force perimeter shots to take away inside points. 

I would agree with your zone premise but when things aren't working you need to try something else. The zone. 

[wgstl]

we held a majority of the teams faced to below their average 3% - 18 of 32 teams excluding the first 3 games. Not sure what to make of that. 

[wgstl]

37 minutes ago, SLUDrew said:

Didn't we shoot 52% in the first half? That doesn't seem flat or disinterested to me. The fact of the matter is that right on the heels of getting blown of the the gym by a team raining threes on us, we allowed our very next opponent to do the same thing. 

Didnt we start with like 4 easy buckets?  And they made one defense change and that's when we acted out.  Thats when it seemed like oh well. 

[wgstl]

14 minutes ago, willie said:

I would agree with your zone premise but when things aren't working you need to try something else. The zone. 

Felt like the zone helped, for a little. 

[wgstl]

2 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

We could have had a week to adjust to no Collins, and still lost last night.  The WIDE OPEN three's were inexcusable.  How many times did Okoro look like a deer in headlights as he belatedly (amongst other Billikens) ran out to the arc? 

We could have had Collins, Perkins, French and Goodwin and still lost last night. We don't defend the arc, we don't defend the pick and roll. 

my biggest issue, more so than open 3's is how often we get teams to get mismatches.  The amount of times oKoro or Linssen get stuck guarding a shooter outside is mind-boggling.

 

Yuri helps with the open threes, though. I'm not saying we win with him, but it helps.

[brianstl]

52 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Get a grip everyone. We lost an A10 first team point guard hours before the game. We all knew that one player was the only position where we didn’t have a good backup. It showed.

How did SBU do with Lofton or Ossun? They lost by 40 and 20 respectively. If you do not have a backup, then things can fall apart. But, it is one game.

Positives: we now see the number area where we need to improve this off-season, PG depth.

Would Yuri have made a difference last night?  Yes.  Would that difference have been enough to win?  Probably not.  The defense was the problem last night as it has been in many of our losses.  It isn't a new problem either.  Our defensive efficiency numbers have been declining for several years even when we still had Goodwin and French.  As much as I and others have complained about the offense at times, the real reason this season and last season didn't end with a tournament bid was defensive decline from the season before.  In the 2018-19 we finished 40th in Kenpom's adjusted defensive efficiency rankings.  In 19-20 we finished 44th.  Last season 65th.  This season we finished 78th.

That is why for all the talk about Perkins coming back and being a top 25 team next season, I'm not sold.  I think we should definitely be a tournament team, but we have to improve the defense to be a top 25 team.

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, brianstl said:

he talk about Perkins coming back and being a top 25 team next season, I'm not sold.  I think we should definitely be a tournament team, but we have to improve the defense to be a top 25 team.

Perkins gaining that weight made it feel like he would contribute more on defense, especially in the paint.  I stand behind that after watching our big's this year, especially linssen.  Perkins likely doesn't help 3 point defense however. 

 

Im also ok with a defense being ranked 60-80 range, if the offense was closer to 30-40. 

Our offense struggled in 2 main spots, mid rage, and another 3 point threat.  If we had someone who could do that, I'd think our offense would have been near the 40's.

I didnt quite buy into the defensive hype around Nesbitt, I thought he was ok, and had some nice blocks.  But the team as a whole is much better going from Nesbitt to Perkins, on maybe both sides of the ball. 

[3star_recruit]

Lose your best player at the beginning of the season, lose your best remaining player at the end of the season.  What basketball gods did we piss off?  

[wgstl]

12 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Lose your best player at the beginning of the season, lose your best remaining player at the end of the season.  What basketball gods did we piss off?  

Not to mention we got a 50% Linssen for the 2nd half of the season. 

[3star_recruit]

51 minutes ago, willie said:

I would agree with your zone premise but when things aren't working you need to try something else. The zone. 

Except for Loyola, nobody has been able to stop the Northern Iowa Express the past month.   However, they are a team you can score on.  Without our point guard, we couldn't even manage 70 points against a poor defensive team.  That's how much we relied on Yuri to lead the offense this year.  I didn't even bother watching the game because I knew what was coming.  

I usually brood about the season for a couple of weeks but I've already turned the page.  Get healthy Team Blue and pray that the basketball gods leave us be next season.

[gobillsgo]

1 hour ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Get a grip everyone. We lost an A10 first team point guard hours before the game. We all knew that one player was the only position where we didn’t have a good backup. It showed.

How did SBU do with Lofton or Ossun? They lost by 40 and 20 respectively. If you do not have a backup, then things can fall apart. But, it is one game.

Positives: we now see the number area where we need to improve this off-season, PG depth.

So whose fault is it that we don’t have an acceptable backup at PG? 
 

and no, I do not consider Jones a backup PG, he’s a 2. 

[wgstl]

2 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

So whose fault is it that we don’t have an acceptable backup at PG? 
 

and no, I do not consider Jones a backup PG, he’s a 2. 

Do most teams have an acceptable backup? Seems jones is about as good as you can get.