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Five positives from EWU McBroom Bowl

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1 minute ago, Littlebill said:

Glaze started 20 games in 12-13 and Remekun started 15.

In 13-14, Jake Barnett started 26 games.

Both French and Goodwin will go out as all-time greats. Why the need to rag on them? Especially when it's all without merit.

 

Why do you hate these guys so much?

Glaze started was 9th in MPG in 12-13 so agreed Hasahn would play more than him. 

I haven't ragged on Goodwin and French once just stating that this team is not yet better than our 12,13,14 teams. Which we all agree on. 

I like goodwin and french a lot and think they will be all-conference players next two years. Just don't think they are the best players of the last 15 years or the two best two-way players in the conference as stated above haha. I mean there are actual NBA prospects in the league haha.

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Just now, glazedandconfused said:

I mean they both made 25% of the 3 points that they attempted and Jordair was a better FT shooter. So Jordair is factually a better shooter. (slightly)

 

 

One last post before I'm done responding cause you are so off.

Career avgs 9.2 pts 3.2 Reb 3.1 assist -jett

                  11.2 pts 7.5 reb  3.6 assist- goodwin

 

Goodwin has attempted 183 3pt already. Jett for his career was 109. Jett shot fts 4% higher than Goodwin in career. And I guarantee you Goodwin is higher when he is done. I'm going to say it again but watch them shoot. It's obvious if you have been around basketball.

Jett averaged 14 pt/g in his a10 player of the year SENIOR season along with 4 Reb , 5 ast 1.5 steals. Goodwin averages almost 11 pts, 8 reb, 4 ast, 2 steals in his worse year.

I suggest you go to sports reference and look it up. Do it for Has and the others as well. Jordair is great but he was no Goodwin at the same age. Goodwin has the potential to be one of the greatest 4 year billikens in SLU history. 

Now this years team is not as good as that team, no. But Individual players is different. 

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3 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

I mean they both made 25% of the 3 points that they attempted and Jordair was a better FT shooter. So Jordair is factually a better shooter. (slightly)

 

Yes I concede the 2014 team Hasahn would've started. I was more thinking 12-13 but the 14 team was still way better than this team.

2013=2014 Mike McCall 9.8/3.8/2.4 shot 40% from the field and 32% from 3.  Rob Loe 10.3/5.7 45% from the field 30% from 3. Both Goodwin and French start on this team

2012-2013 French starts over Ellis on that team easily and Goodwin over any of the guards on that team 

2011-2012 French over Ellis and Goodwin over Mcall or Jett and personally I take todays Goodwin over any version of Kwamain and I love Kwamain but I get an argument can be made either way there. 

You're taking the best versions of each of those players on all those teams combined and acting like they were 1 team. On any of those 3 teams French and Goodwin both start. 

Try this … Now that I've looked into it a bit I spoke hastily. I was wrong. Come on, You can do it

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This is kind of an interesting discussion. If you were able to merge this team with both the '11-'12 and '13-'14, these are how I think the rotations would shake out:

2011-2012

Mitchell

McCall

Goodwin

Conklin

French

Bench: Loe, Jett, Evans, Ellis, Thatch

Commentary: I think French is a guaranteed starter on this team. He is currently a better scorer, rebounder and defender than Soph. Evans/Loe. You can't start all three of Evans/Conklin/French because of the spacing issues, which is why I put in Goodwin (who is a better player right now than Jett was a sophomore). This is not a great 3-point shooting team, but it can score from all 5 spots on the floor and is also elite defensively.

 

2013-2014

Jett

McCall

Evans

French

Loe

Bench: Goodwin, Thatch, Glaze, Collins, Hankton (?)

Commentary: I actually think this might be the better of the two teams, even though the names aren't as strong on paper. Unfortunately, you can't really start a back court of Jett/Goodwin/Evans because you need McCall in there for spacing. I actually think Goodwin could come in off the bench for any of these except McCall (could sub in for French and push Evans to the 4). The one disappointing thing is that even in combining these two distinct, exciting teams there are really only two reliable bigs in French and Loe. 

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1 minute ago, glazedandconfused said:

Glaze started was 9th in MPG in 12-13 so agreed Hasahn would play more than him. 

I haven't ragged on Goodwin and French once just stating that this team is not yet better than our 12,13,14 teams. Which we all agree on. 

I like goodwin and french a lot and think they will be all-conference players next two years. Just don't think they are the best players of the last 15 years or the two best two-way players in the conference as stated above haha. I mean there are actual NBA prospects in the league haha.

No one is saying this "team" is better than that "team" and that's not the statement you made

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Just now, slufanskip said:

No one is saying this "team" is better than that "team" and that's not the statement you made

Yes that's exactly what started this debate. It was stated that this is the most complete team in 15 years.

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All conjecture and opinion so let me get in on this. . . French would've made the Majerus' teams better.   He can pass out of the post well and rebounds better than anyone on those teams.  Furthermore,  Goodwin is an all around good stat sheet stuffer comparable to Evans (I think) but also probably a better rebounder.  No problem having a stretch 4 that doesn't contribute rebounds when Goodwin can pick up the slack.  Evans did this as well but Goodwin seems better at it to me at this point. 

YC this guy just might become something really really special.   His vision and passing is outstanding.   He also hustles on D, no he's not Kwamain level but he may be one day. 

Now if we're adding all kinds of qualifiers imagine Majerus coaching this group or Bess.

I'm just excited that we're comparing this team to the best team we've had in 20 years.   It's early but I'm mixing some strong stuff in this Koolaid right now. 

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1 hour ago, glazedandconfused said:

Littlebill, that wasn't the point though. Sure Majerus would've loved those players. But the argument was that this is the most complete team in 15 years. Goodwin and Thatch (!!) were not better athletes or players (yet) than McCall/Mitchell/Jett at guard. 100% of the people hear agree with this. So my point was they would not see significant time. 

The 12-13-14 teams were really good teams. Like legitimately top 25 teams in the country. This team is nowhere near that (time will tell if we are even a top 5 A-10 team. I'm thinking we are, but to state this is our most complete team is hilariously delusional. 

100% - me.  You're are saying that the #1 offensive rebounding guard in the NATION, a player who will end up #1 Billiken All Time in Steals, and will end up equal to or better in Assists then Mitchell and Jett, isn't their equal. Goodwin is also on pace to score more Career points than McCall and Jett.  I would reverse your statement and say McCall/Mitchell/Jett would have trouble putting Goodwin on the bench.

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1 minute ago, glazedandconfused said:

Yes that's exactly what started this debate. It was stated that this is the most complete team in 15 years.

So one person did. I think others responded and all would agree that wasn't a correct statement. I'd bet even the person who made the statement would admit is wrong and said out of excitement for this years team. 

However, you then took it further to say that no player on this team would start on any of those teams. You even said they might be the 7th or 8th player. Now you did eventually admit that French would have started on one of those teams. However, the reality is they both start on all 3. There is no version of Mike McCall that is a better player than Jordan Goodwin is today. Not a knock on McCall, he was a hell of a player but never better all around than todays Goodwin

Just admit you misspoke and move on

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11 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

100% - me.  Your are saying that the #1 offensive rebounding guard in the NATION, a player who will end up #1 Billiken All Time in Steals, and will end up equal to or better in Assists then Mitchell and Jett, isn't their equal. Goodwin is also on pace to score more Career points than McCall and Jett.  I would reverse your statement and say McCall/Mitchell/Jett would have trouble putting Goodwin on the bench.

You understand that raw totals don't make someone a better player right. Adjust for pace of play/min per game please before trying to make a point like this. 

 

ABOMB and NH, I concede you guys are making good points and that Hasahn specifically would play significant minutes. You guys convinced me.

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13 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

No one from the current team would play a single minute for the 1948 team. Change my mind. 

Joe Ossola has nothing on jgood

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20 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

You understand that raw totals don't make someone a better player right. Adjust for pace of play/min per game please before trying to make a point like this. 

 

ABOMB and NH, I concede you guys are making good points and that Hasahn specifically would play significant minutes. You guys convinced me.

Never mind this is like arguing with someone who insists 2+2=7

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1 minute ago, Billiken Rich said:

TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yea, I'm an idiot for not realizing it and arguing

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OK people, now that all of that comparison stuff has come out in the open, I have a question for you all: Who thinks we can beat Seton Hall next Sunday?

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1 hour ago, glazedandconfused said:

Wgstl, that wasn't the argument, though. Unrelated note, you should adjust to per possession to adjust for minutes played/pace of place if you want to make a legitimate point.

The argument was the French wouldn't start on the 12-13-14 teams (yet). Conklin was only on the 12 team and was undoubtedly better than French has been so far.

Ok I boil this down to one play.  End of the game missed shot. Conklin did not get the rebound did not screen out Draymond Green.  French in place of Conklin at that point I would take in a heartbeat. 

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1 hour ago, glazedandconfused said:

Glaze started was 9th in MPG in 12-13 so agreed Hasahn would play more than him. 

I haven't ragged on Goodwin and French once just stating that this team is not yet better than our 12,13,14 teams. Which we all agree on. 

I like goodwin and french a lot and think they will be all-conference players next two years. Just don't think they are the best players of the last 15 years or the two best two-way players in the conference as stated above haha. I mean there are actual NBA prospects in the league haha.

so you dont think goodwin and french with continued progression in two years would be capable of being nba players?    i do.   they are not yet (french with better shooting would be but he needs to be able to shoot more than layups and dunks to make the nba)

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1 hour ago, glazedandconfused said:

You understand that raw totals don't make someone a better player right. Adjust for pace of play/min per game please before trying to make a point like this. 

Got it, only your opinion counts. Numbers don't mean a thing.  Larry Hughes was a horrible player, correct? 

Tilky, did you sneak in the backdoor?

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2 minutes ago, Basketbill said:

Ok I boil this down to one play.  End of the game missed shot. Conklin did not get the rebound did not screen out Draymond Green.  French in place of Conklin at that point I would take in a heartbeat. 

Non Troll Responses - Sure but that sample size of one hypothetical play isn't much to go off. I would venture to guess Conklin hit some free-throws that game that French wouldn't have hit. Not saying French wouldn't have contributed but one play sample size isn't persuading.

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

so you dont think goodwin and french with continued progression in two years would be capable of being nba players?    i do.   they are not yet (french with better shooting would be but he needs to be able to shoot more than layups and dunks to make the nba)

I think they *could* be NBA prospects if they learn to shoot and handle the ball a little cleaner on Hasahn's part. But guys like Obi, Kellen, Santos-Silva are better players currently than our guys.

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