GDT: How Bad Arer We? No One Started One. Shocked

[Scoop]

Starters next year will be Goodwin, Henriquez, Bess, French, Foreman.

I believe Roby, Welmer, Bishop, Zeke, Johnson help off the Bench.  Some more than others.

Gillman is a lost cause.

Play Nuefeld a lot this year and it will work itself out one way or another.

Land an impact JUCO big and a quick freshman point to groom.

Done and Done.

[LongLiveLisch]

I don't plug my blog too often because it normally contains emotionally negative rants with bad hot takes, but I thought this one my interest you guys.  It's a look at who the most out of place teams are as they relate to their conference.  It's all predictable, but it's interesting to see how SLU racks up against all the other bottom of the conference teams:

https://billibuckets.com/2016/12/08/ever-feel-like-you-dont-belong/

[Soderball]

12 hours ago, CBFan said:

Who is defending Neufeld's play?

I agree with Cheeseman, Ford thinks he may have something or he wants to see if Matt is not the answer .

Respectfully you know more about what to look for in a developing player than I do.

I love this site because I learn a lot from the posters, most on this site agree with your opinion of Neufeld.

I think Ford is just throwing throwing the proverbial s*%& against the wall.

When Agbeko is in foul trouble, totally ineffective, or both(as he has been the past two matchups) what else does this roster have? That doesn't mean he has any future in a Billiken uniform. He's bad.

 

You're a humble person CBFan, and i respect your opinions, that's why I'm seriously questioning this mindset. The guy can't play.

[CBFan]

1 hour ago, Soderball said:

I think Ford is just throwing throwing the proverbial s*%& against the wall.

When Agbeko is in foul trouble, totally ineffective, or both(as he has been the past two matchups) what else does this roster have? That doesn't mean he has any future in a Billiken uniform. He's bad.

 

You're a humble person CBFan, and i respect your opinions, that's why I'm seriously questioning this mindset. The guy can't play.

Fair enough Soderball for me it is just wishful thinking and hope that Neufeld could at least defend the post someday.

It is hard to comprehend how coach Crews could not find better players after 3 straight NCAA appearances.

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, Soderball said:

I think Ford is just throwing throwing the proverbial s*%& against the wall.

When Agbeko is in foul trouble, totally ineffective, or both(as he has been the past two matchups) what else does this roster have? That doesn't mean he has any future in a Billiken uniform. He's bad.

 

You're a humble person CBFan, and i respect your opinions, that's why I'm seriously questioning this mindset. The guy can't play.

A couple of reasons I still have some hopes for Neufeld are mono and Tate.  

First, I think the mono really zapped his stamina, reaction time and strength.  That has really impacted what he has been able to do so far.  This really shows when you compare Neufeld's per 40 minute numbers from this season to last season.  His foul per minute numbers this season really show how the mono has impacted reaction time. Nuefeld's stamina, reaction time and speed will improve as he gets further away from his bout with mono.

Second, Corey Tate was actually able to turn Ryan Rosburg into a legitimate SEC center during the second half of last season.  Rosburg was basically a slightly bulkier version of Neufeld.  I actually think Nuefeld is a little more athletic and he definitely had better footwork as a freshman than Rosburg did as a freshman.  Also, compare Rosburg's per 40 minute numbers as a freshman to Neufeld's.

None of the above means that Neufeld will definitely improve like Rosburg did.  I just think we need to wait to see what he does in the second half of the season before we completely write him off.

[Old guy]

Brianstl, I agree with you. There is nothing written in stone saying that players cannot make rapid progress in some circumstances and with good levels of play. Neufeld might be such a case, or not. Remains to be seen. I think he  will get adequate playing time this season to show how much he can or cannot improve.

[Former Bill]

1 hour ago, CBFan said:

Fair enough Soderball for me it is just wishful thinking and hope that Neufeld could at least defend the post someday.

It is hard to comprehend how coach Crews could not find better players after 3 straight NCAA appearances.

It really is. the pipeline was there to continue to build on the success. Ive heard rumors that the recruiting was slashed when the interim tag was on him which put the staff behind the 8ball

[cheeseman]

8 minutes ago, Former Bill said:

It really is. the pipeline was there to continue to build on the success. Ive heard rumors that the recruiting was slashed when the interim tag was on him which put the staff behind the 8ball

Even if that did happen, he should have been able to recover the next year but instead his recruiting got worse.  I think his issue was that he could not and never could recruit - which was why I was against hiring him to begin with, nothing in his past said he could and that bore out here.  Along the same lines - he could not recruit better because I think he did a poor job of evaluating talent.  Sure anybody can identify the top guys that all the services and media are touting - this is where he was out of his element and could not stack up to those who knew how to recruit - to be a good recruiter you have to be able to quickly evaluate the upside of little known players and get in deep with them before everybody else shows up.  This was RM's genius.  I have to admit, I am getting a little tired of talking about Crews - he is gone and good riddance - he was a dark period in Billiken BB and now I simply want to look forward.

[slufan13]

1 hour ago, Former Bill said:

It really is. the pipeline was there to continue to build on the success. Ive heard rumors that the recruiting was slashed when the interim tag was on him which put the staff behind the 8ball

That was his best recruiting class. Yacoubou, Crawford, Agbeko. By no means, nobody great, but those guys are solid role players. Plus that rumor just simply cannot be not true. The entire basketball budget increased after our tournament appearances.

Edit I misread your comment about the timing on things. I believe it was hard to recruit with the interim tag. But it should have gotten a lot easier in the years after that. Regardless that was his best class. He got progressively worse after he was named full-time coach. 

[wgstl]

15 hours ago, Scoop said:

 

Play Nuefeld a lot this year and it will work itself out one way or another.

 

I do think he needs to play more this year.  This season is already a lost cause. He does suck, every one can agree, but it might be due to lack of minutes.  Hard to get something going.  Let him play, if he sucks hes gone, if he improves its because we know why. 

[slu72]

I'd suggest we just black out further discussions of the Crews era. It's way too depressing and shouldn't be belabored. This is not Travis Ford's team. His team is currently awaiting behind stage. The season is totally an audition year to see who he wants around as support for the 5 guys coming next season. So far, it appears only 5 current players may add potential depth; Wellmer, Bishop, Johnson, Moore, and Robey. But even those 5 don't excite me based on what we've seen so far. Of course, it's too early to judge the FR.

As for Neufeld,  give him all of Gillman's minutes and try to get him 20 mpg. See what he has to offer and if he develops. He's a nothing to lose and maybe something to gain sort of deal. We've seen enough of Gillman to know he should be at Lindenwood.

Here's hoping, and am sure we are, trying to bring in some late developing SRs or even some JUCOs to add to next year's roster. If we are then we should not have a problem with Travis handing out some current players their walking papers after the season's over. I don't know why we can't get JUCO's anymore. Spoon did it w/ Love and Jeffers. Zo got us Kenny Brown, and Sodie w/ Newburn (granted not a great pickup there). I realize Rickma didn't like JUCO's, but would be surprised if Travis wouldn't pursue them.

[Pistol]

1 hour ago, Former Bill said:

It really is. the pipeline was there to continue to build on the success. Ive heard rumors that the recruiting was slashed when the interim tag was on him which put the staff behind the 8ball

It couldn't have helped, but based on how he performed after being given a 5-year contract, it seems the impact was negligible.

There's no way to positively spin how deep a hole Crews put this program in, and how quickly.

[Bobby Metzinger]

32 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I do think he needs to play more this year.  This season is already a lost cause. He does suck, every one can agree, but it might be due to lack of minutes.  Hard to get something going.  Let him play, if he sucks hes gone, if he improves its because we know why. 

It's almost like he's never played organized basketball before. Or in one of those leagues when you get the red wristband, you guard the kid on the other team wearing the red wristband. Maybe things are different in Canada. Or he's like the kid Woody Harrellson recruited in "Kingpin" and how they bowled differently because of their Amish faith.

[slufanskip]

Here's what's funny. We were all excited about Roby, Agbeko, and a few others based upon who else was recruiting them and their ranking at the time. I believe the problem is less a product of the level of recruit than it is player development.

[slufan13]

2 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Here's what's funny. We were all excited about Roby, Agbeko, and a few others based upon who else was recruiting them and their ranking at the time. I believe the problem is less a product of the level of recruit than it is player development.

The problem was our backup plans. We actually got a lot of our top recruits on campus (Macura and O'Mara from Xavier, Martin from Butler, etc). We just didn't close the deal on any of them and then settled for guys ranked well below or who had obvious flaws in their games even as high schoolers. But I do agree with your point. Players got on campus and didn't develop at all. 

[slufanskip]

Bartley, Roby, Can't recall his name but the player who transferred out that drove in to 3 players?, Agbeko, ... they were all decent level recruits that had bigger schools looking at them. We were all pretty much excited when they signed.

[slufan13]

10 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Bartley, Roby, Can't recall his name but the player who transferred out that drove in to 3 players?, Agbeko, ... they were all decent level recruits that had bigger schools looking at them. We were all pretty much excited when they signed.

I don't like to look at who else is recruiting players because so many of those offers are stale. Some of them were because they wanted to package Roby with his high school teammates, etc. I do find it interesting though. I think it was Biancardi who said that Majerus would show interest in a player that he didn't actually want because then other schools would recruit that player because they thought Majerus liked him. 

[Bobby Metzinger]

3 hours ago, slufan13 said:

I don't like to look at who else is recruiting players because so many of those offers are stale. Some of them were because they wanted to package Roby with his high school teammates, etc. I do find it interesting though. I think it was Biancardi who said that Majerus would show interest in a player that he didn't actually want because then other schools would recruit that player because they thought Majerus liked him. 

Ah, the old reverse psychology effect.

[kshoe]

Crews' recruiting was flawed for three primary reasons:

1) He didn't try that hard. You really have to work to recruit at this level.

2) He simply wasn't dynamic enough to sell big-time prospects. The same bland, persona he had with the media was presented to players and it didn't sell...at all.

3) He had a bad eye for talent and grossly over-valued height over skill. He intentionally created a lineup of tall guards (with no skills) and even taller stiffs (with no speed, strength or skills). He was stupid enough to not offer Goodwin until later in the game, presumably because he originally projected as an undersized PF. that kind of says it all.

[cheeseman]

8 hours ago, slu72 said:

I'd suggest we just black out further discussions of the Crews era. It's way too depressing and shouldn't be belabored. This is not Travis Ford's team. His team is currently awaiting behind stage. The season is totally an audition year to see who he wants around as support for the 5 guys coming next season. So far, it appears only 5 current players may add potential depth; Wellmer, Bishop, Johnson, Moore, and Robey. But even those 5 don't excite me based on what we've seen so far. Of course, it's too early to judge the FR.

As for Neufeld,  give him all of Gillman's minutes and try to get him 20 mpg. See what he has to offer and if he develops. He's a nothing to lose and maybe something to gain sort of deal. We've seen enough of Gillman to know he should be at Lindenwood.

Here's hoping, and am sure we are, trying to bring in some late developing SRs or even some JUCOs to add to next year's roster. If we are then we should not have a problem with Travis handing out some current players their walking papers after the season's over. I don't know why we can't get JUCO's anymore. Spoon did it w/ Love and Jeffers. Zo got us Kenny Brown, and Sodie w/ Newburn (granted not a great pickup there). I realize Rickma didn't like JUCO's, but would be surprised if Travis wouldn't pursue them.

I believe that the NCAA now requires that a JUCO has to have made appropriate progress on his major.  The problem is many of the majors some JUCO take are not offered at SLU  such as Phys Ed and Parks and Rec as examples.  So the problem is if the kid is in a major we don't offer then he is not available for us to recruit.   I am not saying it is impossible just that the rules have been changed so the landscape is different.

[brownwolves]

OUCH! And you call us " the Welders " Ya, it stings doesn't, feels just like someone slugged you in the gut or rubbed salt into the wound. Give five years or so....

Go Billikens Beat Dayton

[JMM28]

6 hours ago, kshoe said:

Crews' recruiting was flawed for three primary reasons:

1) He didn't try that hard. You really have to work to recruit at this level.

2) He simply wasn't dynamic enough to sell big-time prospects. The same bland, persona he had with the media was presented to players and it didn't sell...at all.

3) He had a bad eye for talent and grossly over-valued height over skill. He intentionally created a lineup of tall guards (with no skills) and even taller stiffs (with no speed, strength or skills). He was stupid enough to not offer Goodwin until later in the game, presumably because he originally projected as an undersized PF. that kind of says it all.

If I had to draw a picture of Jim Crews on an in home visit, that picture definitely includes Jim Crews reaching into his pocket to offer a Werthers original in an awkwardly firm way until someone in the room reluctantly puts it in their mouth while he talks about how great werthers originals are. 

[jimbofive]

47 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

If I had to draw a picture of Jim Crews on an in home visit, that picture definitely includes Jim Crews reaching into his pocket to offer a Werthers original in an awkwardly firm way until someone in the room reluctantly puts it in their mouth while he talks about how great werthers originals are. 

Wahahahaha this is one of the best mental images I've ever had.

Thank you so much, seriously.

[slu72]

12 hours ago, cheeseman said:

I believe that the NCAA now requires that a JUCO has to have made appropriate progress on his major.  The problem is many of the majors some JUCO take are not offered at SLU  such as Phys Ed and Parks and Rec as examples.  So the problem is if the kid is in a major we don't offer then he is not available for us to recruit.   I am not saying it is impossible just that the rules have been changed so the landscape is different.

I understand the lack of major thing in that we don't offer a PE or a Pop Culture major but we do offer a communications major which seems to be a favorite amongst college athletes these days. Don't understand the NCAA's rule on appropriate progress on his major, if he has earned enough in transferable credits. A lot of kids start out their first two years seeking a specific major then change their minds and switch. Doesn't seem fair to hold an athlete to a different standard than the regular students. I'm sure there is someway around this rule w/o cheating.  

[Bobby Metzinger]

11 hours ago, JMM28 said:

If I had to draw a picture of Jim Crews on an in home visit, that picture definitely includes Jim Crews reaching into his pocket to offer a Werthers original in an awkwardly firm way until someone in the room reluctantly puts it in their mouth while he talks about how great werthers originals are. 

Now I'm the grandpa...