NCAA President floats new D1 Subdivision/NIL Plan

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

10 hours ago, Soderball said:

It's about money. What do you think it's "supposed" to be?

Money rules. Get outta here with that weak sauce.

SLU pads our schedule with buy games. Do you think we are somehow "better" ?? Do you buy tickets?? Concessions? Parking? It's all about money. Everything. Full stop.

Let me know when CTF and CM start working for free.

I don't know, man. Amateur sports? Not being tied down to dollar figures for the glory of winning? NCAA was never meant to be like the pro sports leagues with endorsements and advertisers and betting. It's all bulls*it and it's bad for us, to paraphrase George Carlin.

Edited December 6, 2023 by BrettJollyComedyHour

[3star_recruit]

I have really enjoyed the start of the high school basketball season.  If roster reshuffling every year really is the wave of the future in D1 basketball, I'll just go to more high school basketball games.  The hot dogs are better anyway.

[billiken_roy]

52 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I have really enjoyed the start of the high school basketball season.  If roster reshuffling every year really is the wave of the future in D1 basketball, I'll just go to more high school basketball games.  The hot dogs are better anyway.

and cheaper!

[TheA_Bomb]

The loss of regionality, old rivals, and roster shuffling may take a toll on the support to college athletics. Thus there will be less money involved and this will settle down. But it's going to be worse from that perspective for a while I think. 

[HoosierPal]

12 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Wow I really find that kind of crazy - a non-revenue sport student is being equated with a revenue sport player.  The whole purpose I thought of the NIL issue was to make sure players who were creating the income would be given a chance to profit from their accomplishments.  Non-revenue sport athletes not only do not generate revenue but they actually are a drain on the finances.  I am not trying to say that non-revenue sport players are worthless just that why would they be included in the revenue sharing set up.  I guess nothing actually has to make sense anymore.

I looked at the roster listings on the SLU athletic website.  If you add up Men's and Women's Hoops, Baseball/Softball and Soccer, you get about 145 athletes.  So that is a good start.  I did see the 400+ number on the website, but frankly I can't figure out how it is that high. But use 300 total athletes, divide it by half, that still is $4.5 million.....every year. 

[Soderball]

2 hours ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

I don't know, man. Amateur sports? Not being tied down to dollar figures for the glory of winning? NCAA was never meant to be like the pro sports leagues with endorsements and advertisers and betting. It's all bulls*it and it's bad for us, to paraphrase George Carlin.

The coach is paid roughly 2 and a half million dollars. Jimbo Fisher at A&M got paid 75 million dollars to not coach.

Coaches are being hired and bringing their roster to new schools with them. Mercenary.

That's the nature of the game and SLU has been no "better" than anyone else. We are even trying to bring on two-time transfers.

Amateur sports doesn't have 80-90 million dollar arenas and 20+ million dollar private cafeterias and office space. That stuff isn't for the student body at large. It's for the athletes, because it's pro sports and they're generating or trying to generate revenue.

Amateur sports is at high school and juco gyms. Usually empty ones.

That does also mean that the days of athletes being above criticism are also over. The guys are paid to do what they do and should be criticized like any other employee anywhere can be. The obscenely paid coaches doubly so.

Watching CTF and other coaches complain about it is rich though. They should stop accepting salaries and coach "for the love of the game" .. haha.

They may love the game, but the money is more important than anything else. That is paramount. It's all about money at the end. Everything. Full stop. Money money money.

[JMM28]

15 minutes ago, Soderball said:

Watching CTF and other coaches complain about it is rich though. They should stop accepting salaries and coach "for the love of the game" .. haha.

 

They should teach classes at their school, too. 

[TheA_Bomb]

Yeah Dabo Swinney being anti NIL is hilarious.  Can't stand that dude anyway.  Like I said before watch "Pony Excess" money has been involved a while. Circa 1997, I see Jeff Harris at the car wash on Forrest Park and I'm thinking man that's a pretty nice car for a college student....

[dlarry]

40 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Yeah Dabo Swinney being anti NIL is hilarious.  Can't stand that dude anyway.  Like I said before watch "Pony Excess" money has been involved a while. Circa 1997, I see Jeff Harris at the car wash on Forrest Park and I'm thinking man that's a pretty nice car for a college student....

 

 

Maybe he had an “after hours” job?

[billikenfan05]

The first move in NIL should have been to allow schools to open online shops that allows student athletes to sell merchandise from them. If students wanted to front the cost of production this could have included adding merch to arena shops and bookstores. They just went straight to "there's no reeling this in"

[kshoe]

A bunch of people have said it, so this isn't exactly a new point, but to me the only way this makes sense is if the NCAA thinks the current NIL process is going to get destroyed by Title IX concerns. I never like NIL because it was clearly always going to be pay for play, but the one aspect I liked was it allowed a work-around for Title IX. At the end of the day, I don't believe a women's lacrosse player should get paid as much as a football player if players are going to get paid.

But this new proposal is an attempt to get the non-revenue sports a modicum of pay for play and the suggested starting price is $30k per player.  There is no way the football schools like this proposal UNLESS they know the courts are going to blow it all up so might as well try and get in front of it before that happens.

[billikenfan05]

13 minutes ago, kshoe said:

A bunch of people have said it, so this isn't exactly a new point, but to me the only way this makes sense is if the NCAA thinks the current NIL process is going to get destroyed by Title IX concerns. I never like NIL because it was clearly always going to be pay for play, but the one aspect I liked was it allowed a work-around for Title IX. At the end of the day, I don't believe a women's lacrosse player should get paid as much as a football player if players are going to get paid.

But this new proposal is an attempt to get the non-revenue sports a modicum of pay for play and the suggested starting price is $30k per player.  There is no way the football schools like this proposal UNLESS they know the courts are going to blow it all up so might as well try and get in front of it before that happens.

Mark Titus mentioned today that at some point he thinks the workaround will be essentially a licensing agreement between the schools and the “football team” they can wear the schools name but they aren’t “a part of the school” 

[billiken_roy]

Just now, billikenfan05 said:

Mark Titus mentioned today that at some point he thinks the workaround will be essentially a licensing agreement between the schools and the “football team” they can wear the schools name but they aren’t “a part of the school” 

i.e. not even students?   Just mercenaries more or less?   this gets crazier by the day.   

[billikenfan05]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

i.e. not even students?   Just mercenaries more or less?   this gets crazier by the day.   

If you’re looking for a legal workaround for IX that’s about as good as it gets. Think of it like New York Red Bulls except it’s not an energy drink, it’s a university sponsoring it. 

[Lord Elrond]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

i.e. not even students?   Just mercenaries more or less?   this gets crazier by the day.   

Actually, it solves a lot of their problems. Most fans of the P5 teams don’t really care if they are rooting for students. They get the revenue from football, then all the other sports get treated like they are now.

[ARon]

11 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Mark Titus mentioned today that at some point he thinks the workaround will be essentially a licensing agreement between the schools and the “football team” they can wear the schools name but they aren’t “a part of the school” 

That oddly might make it feel more pure since it at least acknowledges that many of the players are not there for the education.

[Soderball]

33 minutes ago, kshoe said:

A bunch of people have said it, so this isn't exactly a new point, but to me the only way this makes sense is if the NCAA thinks the current NIL process is going to get destroyed by Title IX concerns. I never like NIL because it was clearly always going to be pay for play, but the one aspect I liked was it allowed a work-around for Title IX. At the end of the day, I don't believe a women's lacrosse player should get paid as much as a football player if players are going to get paid.

But this new proposal is an attempt to get the non-revenue sports a modicum of pay for play and the suggested starting price is $30k per player.  There is no way the football schools like this proposal UNLESS they know the courts are going to blow it all up so might as well try and get in front of it before that happens.

6 million or whatever is a lot even for P5 football. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than the NIL budget for several P5 schools. I think you hit the nail on the head here. Title IX ends up being the issue and non-revenue sports. Track & field and all this stuff are just pure costs; paying for classes, food, housing, you name it.

The only way the blue bloods back something like this is if they think the courts are about to stick them with the bill regardless; at which point SLU will have to eat it just like everyone else OR give up sports entirely.

NIL could very well actually kill collegiate athletics in the end; but for now this is our mercenary world.

[Dr Bird]

7 minutes ago, ARon said:

That oddly might make it feel more pure since it at least acknowledges that many of the players are not there for the education.

It would become a novelty if a player actually attended the school on the jersey.

 

[Soderball]

11 minutes ago, Dr Bird said:

It would become a novelty if a player actually attended the school on the jersey.

 

Already been happening. Remember the "shadow curriculum" of UNC? Cardinal Rules? Basketball 101?

[billikenfan05]

30 minutes ago, ARon said:

That oddly might make it feel more pure since it at least acknowledges that many of the players are not there for the education.

"We just sponsor the team, as a part of the sponsorship, members can 'apply' for reduced tuition."

[kshoe]

27 minutes ago, Soderball said:

6 million or whatever is a lot even for P5 football. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than the NIL budget for several P5 schools. I think you hit the nail on the head here. Title IX ends up being the issue and non-revenue sports. Track & field and all this stuff are just pure costs; paying for classes, food, housing, you name it.

The only way the blue bloods back something like this is if they think the courts are about to stick them with the bill regardless; at which point SLU will have to eat it just like everyone else OR give up sports entirely.

NIL could very well actually kill collegiate athletics in the end; but for now this is our mercenary world.

I think about it this way:

- A couple years ago the Supreme Court said there is a lot of revenue in college sports so you need to share it with the players.

- NCAA comes up with NIL as a way to share revenue with players that generate the revenue.

- Lawyers are now saber-rattling that sharing the revenue only with players that participate in sports that generate the revenue violates Title IX.

- NCAA is so concerned about Title IX they are willing to potentially pay every athlete $30k, in addition to scholarships, room and board, etc.

 

It'll be a very unique program that doesn't cut it's Olympic sports to the bone if this all goes through. Nothing more than is required than to stay eligible for D1.

[Soderball]

3 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I think about it this way:

- A couple years ago the Supreme Court said there is a lot of revenue in college sports so you need to share it with the players.

- NCAA comes up with NIL as a way to share revenue with players that generate the revenue.

- Lawyers are now saber-rattling that sharing the revenue only with players that participate in sports that generate the revenue violates Title IX.

- NCAA is so concerned about Title IX they are willing to potentially pay every athlete $30k, in addition to scholarships, room and board, etc.

 

It'll be a very unique program that doesn't cut it's Olympic sports to the bone if this all goes through. Nothing more than is required than to stay eligible for D1.

Especially with enrollments nationwide going down and a lot of universities getting hit with decreasing revenue and piles of fixed costs.. and then it will get harder and harder to land D1 "buy" games(which for many schools are NECESSARY to pay for facilities and so on).. and.. and..

I don't think this is as rosy for the P5 as people are making it out to be. I think this is a fear reaction. The lawyers are coming, the lawyers are coming.

[Lord Elrond]

It is amazing just how throughly and completely the people running D1 sports have totally and completely screwed everything up. 

[brianstl]

43 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

"We just sponsor the team, as a part of the sponsorship, members can 'apply' for reduced tuition."

That will never work.  For state schools that would take special legislation and that just isn’t going to fly with voters.  Even in Alabama it would be a really tough sell for a state legislator to go to voters explaining that he voted for that bill so they could get around having to pay the girls.

[Aquinas]

A min 30k wage for every sport will make all none paying schools second class citizens in every sport. All of the good players in every sport will go to the 30k schools. The mess that is div 1 men's bb will spread to every  sport.