GDT: SLU v. Dartmouth

[TheA_Bomb]

31 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

the money folks will need to also ensure that our NIL is competitive to make the program enticing for the next head coach. 

For a coach to be successful at SLU it'll have to be someone that can inspire donations to NIL. I don't think we have donors that will just give no matter what like some places.  Someone will need to excite them and advocate for money.  The lack of enthusiasm right now is why we're not getting money. 

[cheeseman]

3 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

For a coach to be successful at SLU it'll have to be someone that can inspire donations to NIL. I don't think we have donors that will just give no matter what like some places.  Someone will need to excite them and advocate for money.  The lack of enthusiasm right now is why we're not getting money. 

This why keeping him was mistake - if this year goes the way many think they can't afford to keep him.  Once you lose your fan base and donors it is very hard to get them back

[TRN]

48 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

I think most of us will agree Ford’s greatest asset is his recruiting. He is the best recruiter we have had since Romar and is probably Romar’s equal in that aspect. NIL may have eliminated, and at least substantially diminished that asset.This season he has to coach this lesser talented team up. If he can’t, why keep him?

Majerus recruited better than Ford.  He actually knew how to construct a roster on top of coaching.

[TheA_Bomb]

5 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

This why keeping him was mistake - if this year goes the way many think they can't afford to keep him.  Once you lose your fan base and donors it is very hard to get them back

I think it was a mistake but I'm coming to the realization that our hands were tied by the horrible contract.  We can't afford the buy out.  Until it gets really bad no one is going to put up the money. That horrible contract is the more concerning issue because it reveals an organizational problem with SLU. A coach under achieving, OK fire the coach hire a new one. The AD, presumably with the BoT support,  offering such a contract is a harder issue to fix.  

Why such a large salary? Why such guarantees? No one was coming for Ford.

That issue plus mismanagement of compliance and other issues makes me think we need a change. 

Running list of grievances with the regime at SLU (feel free to add):

Mismanagement of Title IX investigations

New Billiken design debacle

Mishandling the Band

Lame game day stuff (cringey cheers, cliche music)

The state of the BVF

Ford's hiring/contract/extensions

Inability or refusal to take advantage of MO NIL law, or NIL in general 

Compliance debacle

Consistent lack of detail in announcements, social media

Gus Phillips

Weak Alumni/fan engagement 

 

 

[TheBand]

Concerns that I have, and I hope we all share; is this trend toward irrelevancy.   Aside from the 4500 (announced) crowd (clearly much smaller)  and those on this thread, who is paying any attention? (Thank god the Blues are bad)

While explaining this to the wife on way home, I instantly thought of this scene from Major League:

Also, I heard no less than 5 ppl walking out at end last nite that either referenced SIUE or Edwardsville game from last year.

[TheChosenOne]

57 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

For a coach to be successful at SLU it'll have to be someone that can inspire donations to NIL. I don't think we have donors that will just give no matter what like some places.  Someone will need to excite them and advocate for money.  The lack of enthusiasm right now is why we're not getting money. 

Very true, it needs to be an emphasis within the program and athletic department. It is so frustrating to me that it has seemingly not been since day #1.

[TheChosenOne]

51 minutes ago, TRN said:

Majerus recruited better than Ford.  He actually knew how to construct a roster on top of coaching.

This is so true. He knew how to evaluate talent and what attributes he wanted on his roster. He wasn't worried about how many stars a kid had. And then once he got that talent on campus he was very intentional with development and teaching his system.

[slu92]

I’m telling you if Chris May is allowed to hire his third head mbb coach I’m out until he’s gone. SLU needs to get fresh leadership knows how to raise NIL money strategically. Hired Crews, hired Ford, messed up Big East deal (should’ve been fired then). Those three mess ups alone would get any other AD fired. Not at SLU. Outside of key donors in the SLU bubble, who May has wrapped around his finger, not many people like the guy. When is enough going to be enough? Guy uses same boring talking points no matter what the situation or subject, same old mindless AD speak and catch phrases for years. Broken record and entire program is stale. I really hope change comes after this season, I’ve seen and heard enough for years. However, it will be typical slu fashion to let this AD hire his third head coach, a lazy hire like a Justin Tatum who is coaching a “pro” team in Australia, coached at CBC, played at SLU, son in NBA,  then rinse and repeat within 3/5 years starting at square one, all because Larry Hughes told Chris May to do it because his kid is on the team. Like they are running an AAU travel team. Meanwhile slu falls even further into the abyss in being irrelevant in college D1 basketball. Time is truly running out and SLU leadership better realize it sooner than later. 

[Slu let the dogs out?]

1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

For a coach to be successful at SLU it'll have to be someone that can inspire donations to NIL. I don't think we have donors that will just give no matter what like some places.  Someone will need to excite them and advocate for money.  The lack of enthusiasm right now is why we're not getting money. 

Speak for yourself. Every time I hear Ford talk about buying into #TeamBlue I have this overwhelming urge to empty our bank accounts into BFV. Had to turn over full control of our finances to my wife last year because of this. 

[Taj79]

@willie:  Yes, there was a press in the first half.  Highmark commented on multiple occasions that the Dartmouth guard dribbled into the same spot for the half court trap like four or five times in a row.  But that was the first half.  I don't recall many if any going the other way in the second half.  As someone noted, where did Medley and Thames go?  The entire offense is the weave ..... sure, it is more noticeable when they start the big passes and weaves exaggerated at the top of the key but the principles don't go away when you start lower and use less guys.  All we do is run around like chickens with our heads cut off.  There is no real attack at the basket unless Hargrove or Dalger says 'fuok it" and dribbles into the post.  I swear Jimerson is not only held the whole game, but his own teammates miss him more times than not.  

The second half was abysmal.  What did we score?  Total of 25 points?  We didn't press and cause turnovers.  We ran an offense that doesn't get us good looks for our limited personnel.  We shortened the bench because our coach puckers typically in this manner in any close games.  And we went to slow ball to walk it up and milk the clock to a win.  If you want to add all that up --- hey, it worked.

There is very little coordinated talent as assembled by our great recruiter.  NIL is killing the dinosaurs and Ford is one of them.  

[slu92]

Only reason I bring Larry Sr into conversation is that he was very vocal at the end of last season supporting Travis Ford. Hey everybody loves their children, but where was Larry Sr before his kids needed places to play? And will he stick around after they are done? TBD. Maybe he has his own selfish reasons too? I’m just saying hiring a guy like Tatum would be a very typical SLU move by the current AD to appease a guy like Larry Hughes. Not because it’s the right move, but because a guy like Larry has some pull, gives AD some top cover, combine that with an AD already afraid of his own shadow, trying to keep his job no matter what. It’s not far fetched at all, Tatum would be cheap too. 

[mrjoelabs]

14 hours ago, slu72 said:

Travis is the worst coach in College BB. 

good to see people seeing the light

[TRN]

24 minutes ago, slu92 said:

I’m telling you if Chris May is allowed to hire his third head mbb coach I’m out until he’s gone. SLU needs to get fresh leadership knows how to raise NIL money strategically. Hired Crews, hired Ford, messed up Big East deal (should’ve been fired then). Those three mess ups alone would get any other AD fired. Not at SLU. Outside of key donors in the SLU bubble, who May has wrapped around his finger, not many people like the guy. When is enough going to be enough? Guy uses same boring talking points no matter what the situation or subject, same old mindless AD speak and catch phrases for years. Broken record and entire program is stale. I really hope change comes after this season, I’ve seen and heard enough for years. However, it will be typical slu fashion to let this AD hire his third head coach, a lazy hire like a Justin Tatum who is coaching a “pro” team in Australia, coached at CBC, played at SLU, son in NBA,  then rinse and repeat within 3/5 years starting at square one, all because Larry Hughes told Chris May to do it because his kid is on the team. Like they are running an AAU travel team. Meanwhile slu falls even further into the abyss in being irrelevant in college D1 basketball. Time is truly running out and SLU leadership better realize it sooner than later. 

Not getting into the Big East is on Biondi.  He was off traversing Europe while that was all going down.  Those discussions are on the University Presidents, the AD is a glorified secretary in the process.  We had a lord in his own little fiefdom that was outmaneuvered big time by Creighton and Butler.

But, I do agree that May’s tenure has run its course.  We can be tops in all other sports but it doesn’t matter if the revenue provider / cash cow is failing.  And by the end of this season it will be apparent with a 20% full arena and losing record, again.

[NextYearBill]

I’d wait for the next road loss and fire him on the tarmac 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I think it was a mistake but I'm coming to the realization that our hands were tied by the horrible contract.  We can't afford the buy out.  Until it gets really bad no one is going to put up the money. That horrible contract is the more concerning issue because it reveals an organizational problem with SLU. A coach under achieving, OK fire the coach hire a new one. The AD, presumably with the BoT support,  offering such a contract is a harder issue to fix.  

Why such a large salary? Why such guarantees? No one was coming for Ford.

That issue plus mismanagement of compliance and other issues makes me think we need a change. 

Running list of grievances with the regime at SLU (feel free to add):

Mismanagement of Title IX investigations

New Billiken design debacle

Mishandling the Band

Lame game day stuff (cringey cheers, cliche music)

The state of the BVF

Ford's hiring/contract/extensions

Inability or refusal to take advantage of MO NIL law, or NIL in general 

Compliance debacle

Consistent lack of detail in announcements, social media

Gus Phillips

Weak Alumni/fan engagement 

 

 

What I am saying is you can not afford not to buy him out.  People keep talking about taking advantage of the MO NIL law - are they refereeing to the high school piece because if that is true I thought it only applied to signing with a State school?

[VeniceMenace]

28 minutes ago, slu92 said:

Only reason I bring Larry Sr into conversation is that he was very vocal at the end of last season supporting Travis Ford. Hey everybody loves their children, but where was Larry Sr before his kids needed places to play? And will he stick around after they are done? TBD. Maybe he has his own selfish reasons too? I’m just saying hiring a guy like Tatum would be a very typical SLU move by the current AD to appease a guy like Larry Hughes. Not because it’s the right move, but because a guy like Larry has some pull, gives AD some top cover, combine that with an AD already afraid of his own shadow, trying to keep his job no matter what. It’s not far fetched at all, Tatum would be cheap too. 

This is what you get for staying home and then supporting your son’s decision to do the same.

[cheeseman]

39 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

@willie:  Yes, there was a press in the first half.  Highmark commented on multiple occasions that the Dartmouth guard dribbled into the same spot for the half court trap like four or five times in a row.  But that was the first half.  I don't recall many if any going the other way in the second half.  As someone noted, where did Medley and Thames go?  The entire offense is the weave ..... sure, it is more noticeable when they start the big passes and weaves exaggerated at the top of the key but the principles don't go away when you start lower and use less guys.  All we do is run around like chickens with our heads cut off.  There is no real attack at the basket unless Hargrove or Dalger says 'fuok it" and dribbles into the post.  I swear Jimerson is not only held the whole game, but his own teammates miss him more times than not.  

The second half was abysmal.  What did we score?  Total of 25 points?  We didn't press and cause turnovers.  We ran an offense that doesn't get us good looks for our limited personnel.  We shortened the bench because our coach puckers typically in this manner in any close games.  And we went to slow ball to walk it up and milk the clock to a win.  If you want to add all that up --- hey, it worked.

There is very little coordinated talent as assembled by our great recruiter.  NIL is killing the dinosaurs and Ford is one of them.  

Thames was in foul trouble

[Lord Elrond]

4 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

What I am saying is you can not afford not to buy him out.  People keep talking about taking advantage of the MO NIL law - are they refereeing to the high school piece because if that is true I thought it only applied to signing with a State school?

The law applies to any school within the state of Missouri, not just state schools

[cheeseman]

1 minute ago, Lord Elrond said:

The law applies to any school within the state of Missouri, not just state schools

Thanks for the clarification. 

[Westy03]

The BVF’s stated goals are first and foremost pay the seniors and players will graduate as Billikens. This seems like a major concern attracting impact freshmen. 

[Dr. Holly Hills]

1 hour ago, TheBand said:

Concerns that I have, and I hope we all share; is this trend toward irrelevancy.   Aside from the 4500 (announced) crowd (clearly much smaller)  and those on this thread, who is paying any attention? (Thank god the Blues are bad)

While explaining this to the wife on way home, I instantly thought of this scene from Major League:

Also, I heard no less than 5 ppl walking out at end last nite that either referenced SIUE or Edwardsville game from last year.

Chris May: “how would like to coach the Billikens next year!”

potential future coach:  “I’ll have to call you back. Got a guy on the other line interested in some white walls.”

[cheeseman]

33 minutes ago, TRN said:

Not getting into the Big East is on Biondi.  He was off traversing Europe while that was all going down.  Those discussions are on the University Presidents, the AD is a glorified secretary in the process.  We had a lord in his own little fiefdom that was outmaneuvered big time by Creighton and Butler.

But, I do agree that May’s tenure has run its course.  We can be tops in all other sports but it doesn’t matter if the revenue provider / cash cow is failing.  And by the end of this season it will be apparent with a 20% full arena and losing record, again.

Biondi was not liked by any of the Presidents so the same thing would have happened whether he was her or not

[TRN]

5 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Biondi was not liked by any of the Presidents so the same thing would have happened whether he was her or not

Either way it’s his fault.  No one liked him, except for maybe a few donors and the golf cart repair shop.

[majerus mojo]

3 hours ago, kmbilliken said:

I think most of us will agree Ford’s greatest asset is his recruiting. He is the best recruiter we have had since Romar and is probably Romar’s equal in that aspect. NIL may have eliminated, and at least substantially diminished that asset.This season he has to coach this lesser talented team up. If he can’t, why keep him?

100%. Ford’s greatest asset has been rendered moot by NIL. He was a great recruiter until the “bad” recruiters were able to throw out $$ and get kids to sign. If we aren’t going to be competitive with NIL then we need an X & O’s coach to recruit under-the-radar kids who fit a system a la Majerus. 

Ford’s advantage of out-recruiting the rest of the conference and then rolling the ball out (not super successive in itself!) is over. In order to get a quality or known HC to replace him, I’m assuming that candidate would want assurances we’re going to step it up in the NIL dept.

I’m sure I can talk myself into the program turning around under the next HC, no matter who it is, but things are pretty bleak right now 

[TheA_Bomb]

@slu92 I don't agree with your conclusions. The Tatum stuff was wild speculation, message board fodder.   As for Hughes, he's an ambassador of the program. He was often in attendance before his son started playing.  Perhaps he knows this whole thing is a house of cards about to come down and he doesn't want his kid to go through that at SLU. I don't fault him. 

@cheeseman I agree it's almost like we can't afford to not fire Ford.  Maybe that group of boosters that approached May to make a change last season is selling off their Doge coin now for the buy out.  I hope so and I hope the AD is canned too.

I think Pestello is clueless. What can we do to raise the profile of these issues?