2023-2024 Season

[SLU_Lax]

Ezewiro also has only left due to coaching changes (or at least that is the timing as I don’t know all his reasoning). The WVU kid also just left this time during a coaching change, but the previous wasn’t. The LSU change was especially messy. 
 

Who knows what the NCAA is or is not thinking though. Plenty of things the NCAA could highlight as special circumstances if they felt like it due to the mess that LSU was due to infractions getting Will Wade ultimately canned. 

[HoosierPal]

14 hours ago, SLU_Lax said:

Ezewiro also has only left due to coaching changes (or at least that is the timing as I don’t know all his reasoning). The WVU kid also just left this time during a coaching change, but the previous wasn’t. The LSU change was especially messy. 
 

Who knows what the NCAA is or is not thinking though. Plenty of things the NCAA could highlight as special circumstances if they felt like it due to the mess that LSU was due to infractions getting Will Wade ultimately canned. 

In his June 29 interview on 590 Ford said Brad has two years left no matter how his waivers situation is resolved. He is listed as a Junior on our roster.  He played the 21-22 season at LSU and the 22-23 season at Georgetown.  Sitting out a year doesn’t count as a year played. 

[wgstl]

I don’t know for certain, but the way things sound coaches are able to ask for details about kids, and if they’re going to have a tough time getting a waiver or not.  

[Compton]

3 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

This is beyond bizarre.  Looks like his NIL deal was tied to pay for play, if he is forfeiting it.  And nothing in the write-up about continuing his education and obtaining a degree. 

 

2 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

 

The one difference I can see is that Silverio had only 1 year of eligibility left, Ezewiro had 2, so if Ezewiro is denied this year, he still has a year next year. The NIL for Silverio confuses me, NIL is NOT supposed to be tied to pay for play ever, so he should still get it theoretically. What we are seeing is the reality, all this NIL stuff is nothing but pay for play.

This lends some credibility to the approach the Billiken NIL program is rumored to have taken - providing "support" to players that stick around and graduate as a Billiken. It avoids getting caught up in circumstances like this where a player feels like the rug got pulled out from them by the NCAA.

But what makes folks think pay-for-play is prohibited? The schools can't pay for play, but if some non-profit NIL organization, or carwash, or Imo's, or clothing line, or anyone else enters a contract with a player for certain marketing services or whatever, that also requires them to play or even just suit up for a certain number of games, then that's between them. Hard to see how that right to contract between the player and the non-profit/business would be restricted.

[HoosierPal]

More on Silverio

Major Madness

 

@low_madness

 

The NCAA had nothing to do with him forfeiting his NIL money. Nothing about Omar's Name Image or Likeness has changed He should still profit off of HIS NIL But the company who promised him the money won't pay up because he's ineligible? So they would only PAY if he could PLAY?

[WVBilliken]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

More on Silverio

Major Madness

 

@low_madness

 

The NCAA had nothing to do with him forfeiting his NIL money. Nothing about Omar's Name Image or Likeness has changed He should still profit off of HIS NIL But the company who promised him the money won't pay up because he's ineligible? So they would only PAY if he could PLAY?

Companies write contracts to spell out terms.  If I were contracting with a college athlete for his NIL, I'd have the contract say the player must be a member of the team ..... duh.

[JMM28]

8 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Companies write contracts to spell out terms.  If I were contracting with a college athlete for his NIL, I'd have the contract say the player must be a member of the team ..... duh.

That is against the (very few) rules of NIL. 

Realistically, none of these guys sign any contract before they're on campus anyways. He didn't have to forfeit anything. The deal fell apart because his name image and likeness isn't as valuable as it would be if he were a member of that team. He also may not be able to fulfill terms of a potential contract, like appearances, if he is not in Morgantown as a resident. 

[TheChosenOne]

I think we should ignore any NIL rules per the NCAA. NIL has already become exactly what the rules say it cannot be (it didn't even take one full football recruiting cycle for it to become a farce).

Oddly those of us in St. Louis are seeing some local college athletes making $ how it was intended (Luther Burden with his own Old Vienna chips and doing some local advertisements, a Schnucks frozen pizza with some Mizzou guys on it, and Brady Cook having a deal with IMO’s like Burden), but that does not appear to be the norm.

[billiken_roy]

while i detest everything about NIL, both what it already is and what it is progressing towards, this is not a time to take a high and mighty position.   this is survival imo.   if we dont also partake, it is just a matter of time before we will be left so far behind in division one athletics, we might as well go down to D2 or D3.   personally i wont spend the money for that.   i wont support another D1 program, i'd be done with college athletics.  but it is time to wake up and see what it's become and realizing the toothpaste isnt going back in the tube.   

[TheChosenOne]

I think it is important that those who are contributing to and running the SLU NIL understand the landscape. If they want to limit their contributions to players on the roster and thus, presumably not make offers to recruits, I think that is going to be a tough sell to get kids into the program at least for major prospects. Maybe recruiting International prospects is part of the answer (and under the radar kids), but from what I am reading prospects and programs are starting to find workarounds there as well.

Mizzou lobbied for legislation that would allow them to compensate prospective in-state student athletes once they sign any agreement essentially committing to Mizzou and apparently are using that heavily in their pitch to two in state top 25 football recruits (one decides today and the other in December). I somewhat questioned why that would matter if the total offer is the offer and it is merely an issue of timing, but I am not in their (the recruit and their family) situation. This would be the opposite of what folks are saying SLU is planning. If the two kids being referenced commit to Mizzou, I would hope that is something that is being explored as 2025 appears to have a solid group of players in the state especially when you add Link to that.

[cgeldmacher]

19 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

This is beyond bizarre.  Looks like his NIL deal was tied to pay for play, if he is forfeiting it.  And nothing in the write-up about continuing his education and obtaining a degree. 

 

For anyone who is still under the delusion that NIL is not purely pay for play, see above.  If he was signed to a deal for his "Name, Image, and Likeness" what does that have to do with his eligibility to play this year.  He still attends that school and will play next season.  I remember arguing about unintended consequences with those who were worried about the rights of these poor kids who were being given room and board and a free college education for four years that this is exactly what would happen from NIL.  I assume that we can all agree that this has turned college sports into a giant mess.

[Taj79]

NIL is simply pay for play.  Let's take The Chosen One's Mizzou example ---- neither of those kids are going to have enough cachet in the bank to make money off using their name, image or likeness to sell one damn thing.  That's a lot different than a known athlete pushing Imos.  Or Mizzou-clad football players on frozen pizza boxes.  Yuri pushing his 'Unknown' brand gets him little to nothing unless some big corporation steps in and helps with the advertising, production, whatever.  Is anybody going to sign up for Fred Thatch's basketball camp this year?  Will he even have one?  It's all PAY for PLAY/ENROLL.  Stop the delusion.

What is EA Sports giving each college player?  If they go with a 2023-24 NCAA Basketball edition, use real team names, and copy real players' images, that's where the kid deserves a cut of the action.  Otherwsie I can see camps, autograph sessions, and personal visits.  But I doubt anyone is going to the local Chevy dealer to meet and greet with Yao Zhang or Step van Brusselsprout.

[TheChosenOne]

The 5-star DE from Lee's Summit committed to Mizzou today, but the most interesting thing for me was hearing Clint Cosgrove who is a national recruiting guy talk about the impact of the commitment. He got into the state legislation allowing prospects to start getting $ once they commit to Mizzou and how he has heard some of the more highly regarded prospects from across the river are transferring to the Missouri side. I have no idea if true or who those guys would be, but something noteworthy.

[wgstl]

8 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

The 5-star DE from Lee's Summit committed to Mizzou today, but the most interesting thing for me was hearing Clint Cosgrove who is a national recruiting guy talk about the impact of the commitment. He got into the state legislation allowing prospects to start getting $ once they commit to Mizzou and how he has heard some of the more highly regarded prospects from across the river are transferring to Missouri side. I have no idea if true or who those guys would be, but something noteworthy.

Drink played a huge role, and even showed up in Jeff city a few times for it. Missouri is one of just a few(?) that always kids to get paid the sec they commit 

[willie]

25 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

The 5-star DE from Lee's Summit committed to Mizzou today, but the most interesting thing for me was hearing Clint Cosgrove who is a national recruiting guy talk about the impact of the commitment. He got into the state legislation allowing prospects to start getting $ once they commit to Mizzou and how he has heard some of the more highly regarded prospects from across the river are transferring to Missouri side. I have no idea if true or who those guys would be, but something noteworthy.

While I think the Missouri law is repugnant it’s the law and we should try to take advantage of it. I don’t follow recruiting enough to tell you who they are but we should be out there offering the top players NIL deals while they are still in high school. 

[TheChosenOne]

26 minutes ago, willie said:

While I think the Missouri law is repugnant it’s the law and we should try to take advantage of it. I don’t follow recruiting enough to tell you who they are but we should be out there offering the top players NIL deals while they are still in high school. 

Completely agree (so dumb and I hate it, but it is what Mizzou lobbied for and gives a potential advantage). I assume those calling the shots are aware of the new state law about to go into effect, but I put it on here on the off chance they are not and seeing that Mizzou is potentially benefiting from it in a big way. If it somehow helps us with local recruits, we need to be aware of it and seeing the list of 2025 in-state recruits it seems relevant.

[JMM28]

2 hours ago, willie said:

While I think the Missouri law is repugnant it’s the law and we should try to take advantage of it. I don’t follow recruiting enough to tell you who they are but we should be out there offering the top players NIL deals while they are still in high school. 

Only thing is you have to have boosters that are ok with some losses. Inevitably there will be guys who bounce to a different commitment by the time they’re supposed to be on campus. 

[willie]

41 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Only thing is you have to have boosters that are ok with some losses. Inevitably there will be guys who bounce to a different commitment by the time they’re supposed to be on campus. 

Don’t disagree but maybe you can structure it to negate that  

 

[brianstl]

On 8/13/2023 at 5:43 PM, HoosierPal said:

This is beyond bizarre.  Looks like his NIL deal was tied to pay for play, if he is forfeiting it.  And nothing in the write-up about continuing his education and obtaining a degree. 

 

Sounds better than the deal Michael Oher signed.

[VeniceMenace]

4 hours ago, willie said:

While I think the Missouri law is repugnant it’s the law and we should try to take advantage of it. I don’t follow recruiting enough to tell you who they are but we should be out there offering the top players NIL deals while they are still in high school. 

Agree the law is repugnant, as is talking about a Mizzou recruit’s NIL on a thread about the 2023-2024 season!

[TheChosenOne]

10 hours ago, willie said:

Don’t disagree but maybe you can structure it to negate that  

 

There is language in the law that allows for the contract to require the individual attend the University: shall have the right to condition payment of that compensation on a student athlete’s attendance at a particular postsecondary educational institution.

I am legitimately posting all of this on the off chance those in charge at SLU aren’t aware of the legislation about to go into effect. We all know they lurk on this board even posting at times to calm the troops like when they intimated Jalen Rucker and Malcolm Dandridge were on their way…

[wgstl]

1 hour ago, TheChosenOne said:

There is language in the law that allows for the contract to require the individual attend the University: shall have the right to condition payment of that compensation on a student athlete’s attendance at a particular postsecondary educational institution.

I am legitimately posting all of this on the off chance those in charge at SLU aren’t aware of the legislation about to go into effect. We all know they lurk on this board even posting at times to calm the troops like when they intimated Jalen Rucker and Malcolm Dandridge were on their way…

I doubt we do much of this considering the player can get paid and still leave(decommit) before signing day.  Thats the really risky thing about this.  Im sure a bulk of williams(mizzou football) NIL money comes after signing day, but he is for sure seeing money as soon as today likely. 

[TheChosenOne]

1 hour ago, wgstl said:

I doubt we do much of this considering the player can get paid and still leave(decommit) before signing day.  Thats the really risky thing about this.  Im sure a bulk of williams(mizzou football) NIL money comes after signing day, but he is for sure seeing money as soon as today likely. 

Well, once the legislation goes into effect which is later this month. The language in the law allows anyone making a NIL deal with the athlete to include a provision that makes it contingent upon the athlete ultimately attending the University, so that would eliminate the risk you are laying out at least if you are viewing the risk as financial. While I would assume only a small % of the total deal is being paid out prior to him being on campus (I have no idea how these deals are structured, so no idea what the length of any of these are), Nwaneri will be able to be paid when the legislation goes into effect later this month and those who are paying will presumably have a clause protecting them if he were to decommit. I assume he could still decommit, but presumably he would owe back whatever $ he had received. One might argue this locks him in a bit more than in the past, but obviously that could be worked out (see Jeremiah Tilmon when he decommitted from Illinois). Mizzou essentially wrote the law, it would be wise to assume that the legislation serves to benefit Mizzou when recruiting players from the state and that clauses are built into the legislation that limit risk.

My main point of bringing any of this up and even before he committed, is that an in-state school that has a very mediocre football program just landed a top 5 recruit in the country and up until a couple of months ago they were the courtesy addition to his finalists. That all changed when he took his visit and that visit began with a visit to Jefferson City where this new legislation was laid out for them. The local and national recruiting folks have pointed to this legislation being a game changer in this one recruitment and potentially in the recruitment of Wingo from SLUH, another top 25 recruit. Whether it will remain so, I have no idea, but hopefully those at SLU are doing their due diligence. 2025 appears to have some solid prospects in the state, so any advantage we can gain needs to be explored. Obviously, the legislation is just one step with the other step being getting the financial commitments to actually have the NIL deal in place.

[wgstl]

interesting, I was just going off what mizzou beat writers were saying and it was said that once they commit, they can start making money.  Its what separates Missouri from most states with NIL. 

[JMM28]

31 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Well, once the legislation goes into effect which is later this month. The language in the law allows anyone making a NIL deal with the athlete to include a provision that makes it contingent upon the athlete ultimately attending the University, so that would eliminate the risk you are laying out at least if you are viewing the risk as financial. While I would assume only a small % of the total deal is being paid out prior to him being on campus (I have no idea how these deals are structured, so no idea what the length of any of these are), Nwaneri will be able to be paid when the legislation goes into effect later this month and those who are paying will presumably have a clause protecting them if he were to decommit. I assume he could still decommit, but presumably he would owe back whatever $ he had received. One might argue this locks him in a bit more than in the past, but obviously that could be worked out (see Jeremiah Tilmon when he decommitted from Illinois). Mizzou essentially wrote the law, it would be wise to assume that the legislation serves to benefit Mizzou when recruiting players from the state and that clauses are built into the legislation that limit risk.

 

Good luck enforcing any sort of clawback provision in a contract signed by a minor. That is rife with issues. I like that the guys can get paid as high school athletes, but there is no legal way to recoup lost money if 17 year old Charlie decides to go to Florida instead of SLU.