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2 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

This was a tough game, but look at what is happening to TN right now vs KY. It is just not that outlandish to lay an egg like this in the road against a rival, even when that team is as bad as Dayton or KY.

You’re right. BUT the context is important. Tennessee has no need for urgency. SLU, of course, does. Last night’s disaster was excusable.  

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Did we watch the same game last night?
Smothering defense by UD? Sorry I didn’t see that. instead I saw a lot of missed wide-open shots and layups. 

UD is a better team than us?  Last night, most definitely, but on the season?  No way

I also saw a lot of selfish play by our wings who missed alot of wide open shots, who then tried to drive and score in the paint but who failed and who then forced things and who then made alot of turnovers leading to easy buckets the other way.  
i watched our playmakers not make plays and, along with our wings, make almost zero attempts  to get the ball inside to our bigs  

i also saw very few FT attempts by us - mostly our bigs   Yes, I know the refs did not blow the whistle for us quite a bit, however, if the outside shooting is is not working, whether due to our own failures or the other team’s defense, why no pounding the ball inside?  We attempted 70 shots  but only 5 by Has (3-5 & who missed his only free-throw), 2 by Linsenn (2-2 & who made both of his free throws) and 1 by Bell (0-1 & who took no free throws)  

Bully Ball used to include Has and/ or bigs. Last night was not Bully ball. Last night was selfish ball  I do not believe coach Ford was on the sidelines yelling “don’t run the offense”, “don’t work the ball inside for a high percentage shot”, “just launch another outside shot because you don’t want to work for something better” and “And if your shot doesn’t fall then put your head down and drive into the paint and it will go in.”  

 

 

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28 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

This was a tough game, but look at what is happening to TN right now vs KY. It is just not that outlandish to lay an egg like this in the road against a rival, even when that team is as bad as Dayton or KY.

Tennessee was being taken to the woodshed by Kentucky for the same reasons as our beating last night.  Stay at home on TN's two shooters and form a wall around the rim with your bigs.  Panic, forced shots and turnovers ensue.  

There are two great teams in the country who have proven they can beat any team playing any kind of defense.  Every other game's outcome is determined on a case by case basis.  A team ranked 50 spots higher than another does not necessarily have the upper hand in that matchup.

 

 

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I'm bummed because it feels like our NCAA bubble just popped.  We could get it back but I think to be sure, we have to get to the A10 Final.  A10 Final is in that *(&%# hole town so that does not bode well for us.  It's extra bitter because we weren't expecting to be in this spot.  Once upon a time SLU was riding high, ranked in the top 25 then biggity bam the M'fers rubble.

Win the next one and optimism is restored.  Lose and someone may need to send me the # to one of those hotlines because  I'm going to need help.

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1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I'm bummed because it feels like our NCAA bubble just popped.  We could get it back but I think to be sure, we have to get to the A10 Final.  A10 Final is in that *(&%# hole town so that does not bode well for us.  It's extra bitter because we weren't expecting to be in this spot.  Once upon a time SLU was riding high, ranked in the top 25 then biggity bam the M'fers rubble.

Win the next one and optimism is restored.  Lose and someone may need to send me the # to one of those hotlines because  I'm going to need help.

Lucky for us every bubble team but UNC and Richmond (who we get to play ) seems to have lost today. Beat VCU and were right back in it

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6 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Did we watch the same game last night?
Smothering defense by UD? Sorry I didn’t see that. instead I saw a lot of missed wide-open shots and layups. 

UD is a better team than us?  Last night, most definitely, but on the season?  No way

I also saw a lot of selfish play by our wings who missed alot of wide open shots, who then tried to drive and score in the paint but who failed and who then forced things and who then made alot of turnovers leading to easy buckets the other way.  
i watched our playmakers not make plays and, along with our wings, make almost zero attempts  to get the ball inside to our bigs  

i also saw very few FT attempts by us - mostly our bigs   Yes, I know the refs did not blow the whistle for us quite a bit, however, if the outside shooting is is not working, whether due to our own failures or the other team’s defense, why no pounding the ball inside?  We attempted 70 shots  but only 5 by Has (3-5 & who missed his only free-throw), 2 by Linsenn (2-2 & who made both of his free throws) and 1 by Bell (0-1 & who took no free throws)  

Bully Ball used to include Has and/ or bigs. Last night was not Bully ball. Last night was selfish ball  I do not believe coach Ford was on the sidelines yelling “don’t run the offense”, “don’t work the ball inside for a high percentage shot”, “just launch another outside shot because you don’t want to work for something better” and “And if your shot doesn’t fall then put your head down and drive into the paint and it will go in.”  

 

 

This isn’t the same team (or line ups) that patented bills bully ball.  Bell started and played a ton last year.  I think it freed up Has to play more that pure power forward position.  Offense and defense.. And we had to grind.

this year it seems we maybe want to be a run and gun team.. but don’t get enough fast breaks..  maybe we want to be a high scoring, shoot you out of the gym team.. but not consistent enough from outside..

don’t have an identity yet except a team that plays mediocre defense and CAN beat good teams IF we shoot well.

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32 minutes ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

Don’t have an identity yet except a team that plays mediocre defense and CAN beat good teams IF we shoot well.

That's a description of at least half of division 1 teams.

It seems like we have the horses to defend and rebound at a high level and that SHOULD be enough to win the A10.  Our inflated expectations were based on that AND finally having some outside shooting.  When none of the above are true we see another Dayton debacle.........

 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

This isn’t the same team (or line ups) that patented bills bully ball.  Bell started and played a ton last year.  I think it freed up Has to play more that pure power forward position.  Offense and defense.. And we had to grind.

this year it seems we maybe want to be a run and gun team.. but don’t get enough fast breaks..  maybe we want to be a high scoring, shoot you out of the gym team.. but not consistent enough from outside..

don’t have an identity yet except a team that plays mediocre defense and CAN beat good teams IF we shoot well.

It does feel like a more “run and gun” approach now than it has been in the last few years.  Ford is betting on our players to out run and out score the other team.  If we all agree this is one of the most talented teams we’ve ever had, can you blame this approach?

I agree Bell could be the better anchor right now in our defense.  For some bizarre reason, Has has been virtually non existent defensively.  Arguably his best attribute in his 3 years developing at SLU was his ability to lock up your opposing big and alter everything that can into the paint.  He causes no discomfort at the rim right now and I don’t understand it because he was an elite run protector.

We will see what happens.  French was preseason 2nd team all conference and one of the best bigs in SLU history.  This team goes as Jordan Goodwin goes, but he needs his sidekick.

 

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Just now, Fraz said:

It does feel like a more “run and gun” approach now than it has been in the last few years.  Ford is betting on our players to out run and out score the other team.  If we all agree this is one of the most talented teams we’ve ever had, can you blame this approach?

I agree Bell could be the better anchor right now in our defense.  For some bizarre reason, Has has been virtually non existent defensively.  Arguably his best attribute in his 3 years developing at SLU was his ability to lock up your opposing big and alter everything that can into the paint.  He causes no discomfort at the rim right now and I don’t understand it because he is an elite run protector.

We will see what happens.  French was preseason 2nd team all conference and one of the best bigs in SLU history.  This team goes as Jordan Goodwin goes, but he needs his sidekick.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

This isn’t the same team (or line ups) that patented bills bully ball.  Bell started and played a ton last year.  I think it freed up Has to play more that pure power forward position.  Offense and defense.. And we had to grind.

this year it seems we maybe want to be a run and gun team.. but don’t get enough fast breaks..  maybe we want to be a high scoring, shoot you out of the gym team.. but not consistent enough from outside..

don’t have an identity yet except a team that plays mediocre defense and CAN beat good teams IF we shoot well.

2 years ago, we took 50 shots in our close win against Dayton with Bully Ball   Last year we took 61 shots in our OT loss to Dayton. Friday night we launched 70 shots and yet many on this Board wanted us to to increase the tempo. Why?

Friday our 3 bigs played 44 minutes  Has (18), Linssen (15) and  Bell (11) which means we only had 2 bigs on the floor together for 4 minutes   
 

Two years later, we have more bigs, a deeper bench, we have a pass first point guard who is to run the offense  and distribute to all, although not score (1-4 with no FTs for 3 points) and yet our bigs take only 8 of our 70 shots   Has 3-5 and 0-1 FT with 6 points, Linssen 2-2 w 2 FTs for 6 points and Bell 0-1 with no FTs  

I cannot believe that Coach Ford‘s game plan is for the offense to ignore our bigs and have our wings take 85% of our shots. Bring back Bully Ball and you can take Selfish Ball or run and gun ball. 

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

2 years ago, we took 50 shots in our close win against Dayton with Bully Ball   Last year we took 61 shots in our OT loss to Dayton. Friday night we launched 70 shots and yet many on this Board wanted us to to increase the tempo. Why?

Friday our 3 bigs played 44 minutes  Has (18), Linssen (15) and  Bell (11) which means we only had 2 bigs on the floor together for 4 minutes   
 

Two years later, we have more bigs, a deeper bench, we have a pass first point guard who is to run the offense  and distribute to all, although not score (1-4 with no FTs for 3 points) and yet our bigs take only 8 of our 70 shots   Has 3-5 and 0-1 FT with 6 points, Linssen 2-2 w 2 FTs for 6 points and Bell 0-1 with no FTs  

I cannot believe that Coach Ford‘s game plan is for the offense to ignore our bigs and have our wings take 85% of our shots. Bring back Bully Ball and you can take Selfish Ball or run and gun ball. 

Since we have a deeper bench with a pass-first PG, we should increase the tempo to get more shots throughout the game. Slowing down plays into the hands of less-talented opponents because it increases potential variance.

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2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

2 years ago, we took 50 shots in our close win against Dayton with Bully Ball   Last year we took 61 shots in our OT loss to Dayton. Friday night we launched 70 shots and yet many on this Board wanted us to to increase the tempo. Why?

Friday our 3 bigs played 44 minutes  Has (18), Linssen (15) and  Bell (11) which means we only had 2 bigs on the floor together for 4 minutes   
 

Two years later, we have more bigs, a deeper bench, we have a pass first point guard who is to run the offense  and distribute to all, although not score (1-4 with no FTs for 3 points) and yet our bigs take only 8 of our 70 shots   Has 3-5 and 0-1 FT with 6 points, Linssen 2-2 w 2 FTs for 6 points and Bell 0-1 with no FTs  

I cannot believe that Coach Ford‘s game plan is for the offense to ignore our bigs and have our wings take 85% of our shots. Bring back Bully Ball and you can take Selfish Ball or run and gun ball. 

Believe it or not we played at a slightly faster pace in the OT game last year than we played Friday night.  The reason for the big discrepancy in field goal attempts in the two games is that in last year’s game we got to the free throw line a lot more.

Friday night Dayton took a our bigs out of the game with their defense and the fact we couldn’t make enough open looks from the perimeter when we got them to force them to spread the floor defensively to open up things for a bigs.  The goal of getting out and running for a while on Friday would have been to get our guys some easy shots in transition and it wasn’t to play selfish ball.

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What clock is not recognizing  is the degree of  contested shots the billikens took Friday night vs uncontested shots dayton had.   We stood around and watched our seniors take difficult opportunities, then went to the other end and rest while dayton took their wide open shots.

I believe we exert more pressure  on defense and in turn turn the above scenario around with easier fast break opportunities  off missed shots and turnovers.  Totally different  outcome with 10 layups vs 10 missed contested 3's.

Faster on both ends would have changed  the game.

That wrong decision lost the game.

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53 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

What clock is not recognizing  is the degree of  contested shots the billikens took Friday night vs uncontested shots dayton had.   We stood around and watched our seniors take difficult opportunities, then went to the other end and rest while dayton took their wide open shots.

I believe we exert more pressure  on defense and in turn turn the above scenario around with easier fast break opportunities  off missed shots and turnovers.  Totally different  outcome with 10 layups vs 10 missed contested 3's.

Faster on both ends would have changed  the game.

That wrong decision lost the game.

We got beat down the floor way too often. We gave up 25 fast break points and we had only 3. Our effort was questionable. 

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2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

What clock is not recognizing  is the degree of  contested shots the billikens took Friday night vs uncontested shots dayton had.   We stood around and watched our seniors take difficult opportunities, then went to the other end and rest while dayton took their wide open shots.

I believe we exert more pressure  on defense and in turn turn the above scenario around with easier fast break opportunities  off missed shots and turnovers.  Totally different  outcome with 10 layups vs 10 missed contested 3's.

Faster on both ends would have changed  the game.

That wrong decision lost the game.

Roy. I totally agree with you. I am not giving Dayton very much credit. Most of our outside shots were wide open. All the ones in the lane were extremely contested. All the bunnies were also very much contested. Easy and open shots by our wings (those playing the 2, 3 and 4 positions) in the lane were not allowed. That’s normal for league play on the road. But I recall JGood pulling up and attempting a high percentage, wide-open 10 footer from the baseline and simply missing it.  I recall wide open three-pointers by Perkins and Jimerson which were simply missed.  I recall a really bad turnover by Jacobs driving into the lane which led to a UD layup. I am not looking to play a slow down tempo where we drain the shot clock down to zero. 
What I am looking for is to pass up the easy outside shot, especially when it is not falling, and spend some effort running the offense to get a higher percentage shot, sometimes on the interior.  Why did Jacobs shoot 6 times (2 of 6) in 16 minutes and Linssen shoot only 2 times (2 of 2) in 15 minutes?  
And while some feel I am too negative on Yuri, I get that he was injured, probably should not have played but did so because he is a warrior and knew he was needed against Dayton, am glad he is on our team, recognize that he only played 22 minutes before possibly re-injuring  ankle and recognize that he only gets assists if the wings make their shots, but again ask the question, why are we not feeding the low post? And why are we not feeding the low post especially if the shooting by our wings is off?

Run and gun, lazy, take the first open shot, selfish ball.  Call it what you want but our PGs took only 5 shots in 24 minutes (Yuri was 1-4 in 22 minutes and Russell was 1-1 in 2 minutes) and our bigs took only 8 shots in 44 minutes which means our wings filling 3.5 positions for the game took the rest - 57 of 70 shots - and missed most of them.

 

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So clock you think the billikens played good defense snd there wasnt much more they could have done.   

 

We're done discussing then.   You watched a different game than i saw. 

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14 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

So clock you think the billikens played good defense snd there wasnt much more they could have done.   

 

We're done discussing then.   You watched a different game than i saw. 

Reporter: Coach Ford what do you think of the execution of your defense?

Coach Ford:  I'm all for it

 

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