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31 minutes ago, courtside said:

Wait, what? You had no trouble posting death estimates repeatedly when you incorrectly thought there would be less than 26k deaths. Since we will not be remotely close to that already preposterously high number...Now the talking points are nothing could have prevented this? Racism? Systemic racism, as well as a racist administration is a big part of why we're here. Accountability matters. 70 days wasted of lack of preparation, lack of response, lack of execution, gross indifference.  I keep missing your posts that address that part. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/04/coronavirus-government-dysfunction/

I don’t give a shiite about the politics of this.  The fact that so many on both sides seem only to obsess about the politics is f’ing disgusting.
 

I never actually posted a a specific number as a prediction on the actual death count.  I did say, at one point, I thought 26,000 would be closer than the higher earlier estimates. I was wrong. I didn’t want to admit what we are actually facing.  
 

I am not posting talking points to support a political position you disagree with. Hell, I was on here early laying out why we needed to take drastic measures to flatten the curve.  I was ridiculed for saying Missouri needed to be more proactive.  I, still, think both of those things were correct.

You have proven yourself along with a select few other posters on both sides of our political divide to be a really awful human being in this thread. When you get done getting  your rocks off on the politics of this all, read the research study published in Science linked earlier in this thread.  It help changed my perspective on this. Until then, go f yourself.

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Brianstl, JMM28, basketbill, 3star. We live quite well with no vaccine against HIV, even though this is a terrible disease that wastes people before it kills them. We accept this, just as out of mind as we accept the deaths from influenza, and the deaths from neurodegenerative disorders. Face it, no one lives forever, we all die some day or the other, sooner or later for one cause or the other. Corona will become one of those events that kills people, perhaps a large number of people, each year with no one noticing. Believe me there. WHAT WE TOTALLY< COMPLETELY AND ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO DO IS TO AVOID WW3. That will end things pretty fast and without a solution.

Give this epidemic a chance to work out, give people a chance to get back to  work, and get the attitude that we can and will have normal lives and our children can and will have normal lives, even if a lot of people die each year of this bug. More people die of cancer, heart attack, traffic accidents, and HIV each year, right in this country. We will not live having to wear masks and gloves, that is complete BS. Population immunity will grow and deter new corona epidemics from having the effects it is showing now. Partial immunity, not complete immunity to the strain du jour, will lower the death toll to a more acceptable level as time goes by. We will have sports and rallies. All we really have to do is to calm down and not go to war. Being tough is not lashing out, or panicking, being tough is taking it and moving on. We can do it.

Mickey Pearson told me to pass along the following message: “Go fuok yourself you self indulgent piece of sh!t.”

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6 hours ago, moytoy12 said:

I heard Bill Gates is trying to implant chips into all of us.  Can we really believe what he says? 

I got mine. my first non apple product. hope it works.

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Calling everything political is part of the problem. If someone is inept or a danger to the world as the person in charge how is one supposed to express that and do something about it if it is dismissed as political. It is life before it is political. We lost 500K in useless war in Vietnam, it would of lasted even longer if we hadn't protested and for those that weren't around us protesting weren't greeted with open arms. We're we being political?  As wrongheaded as I find anti abortion folks I don't consider them being political. They are fighting for their believes in the arena of politics because that is where thing are decided. 

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27 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Mickey Pearson told me to pass along the following message: “Go fuok yourself you self indulgent piece of sh!t.”

It is amazing how much patience Steve has for the vulgarity expressed in this thread.  It is disgraceful this thread is allowed to continue. 

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14 minutes ago, almaman said:

Calling everything political is part of the problem. If someone is inept or a danger to the world as the person in charge how is one supposed to express that and do something about it if it is dismissed as political. It is life before it is political. We lost 500K in useless war in Vietnam, it would of lasted even longer if we hadn't protested and for those that weren't around us protesting weren't greeted with open arms. We're we being political?  As wrongheaded as I find anti abortion folks I don't consider them being political. They are fighting for their believes in the arena of politics because that is where thing are decided. 

Huh?

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2 hours ago, Basketbill said:

additional studies are looking good.  Next study results anticipated in may hearsay fro U Chicago has patients with severe disease going home quickly.

I don’t know how I missed this earlier, this is great news.  Just read reading about this and was checking to make sure it wasn’t posted already.

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1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Here is a follow up to the story you posted....

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/early-peek-at-data-on-gilead-coronavirus-drug-suggests-patients-are-responding-to-treatment/

Small sample size ( 125) but even with that,  results look promising.... Next up, another phase III study ( last phase) with 4000 patients...results should come quickly.(weeks not months)

Thanks for linking this.  STAT has been a really good source for information.

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1 hour ago, brianstl said:

I don’t give a shiite about the politics of this.  The fact that so many on both sides seem only to obsess about the politics is f’ing disgusting.
 

I never actually posted a a specific number as a prediction on the actual death count.  I did say, at one point, I thought 26,000 would be closer than the higher earlier estimates. I was wrong. I didn’t want to admit what we are actually facing.  
 

I am not posting talking points to support a political position you disagree with. Hell, I was on here early laying out why we needed to take drastic measures to flatten the curve.  I was ridiculed for saying Missouri needed to be more proactive.  I, still, think both of those things were correct.

You have proven yourself along with a select few other posters on both sides of our political divide to be a really awful human being in this thread. When you get done getting  your rocks off on the politics of this all, read the research study published in Science linked earlier in this thread.  It help changed my perspective on this. Until then, go f yourself.

You literally nitpicked a poster twice whether or not we'd reach 26k in 5 or 6 days, as if it mattered. You have repeatedly supported the posts of one of the most incorrect posters here, Old Guy. And, isn't political to be anti-racist. It isn't political to have accountability and understanding of why we are here. Lots and lots of panicked, unhinged posts from you Brian. What has transpired thus far did not have to happen. That matters. That's important. Your unwillingness to acknowledge it speaks volumes 

 

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9 hours ago, Old guy said:

Internist but as I have mentioned I worked at corporate level estimating life expectancies, disability and patterns of death.

Bwahahahahahaha. This is ridiculous. It’s obvious you have no clue what you’re talking about.  

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1 hour ago, HenryB said:

It is amazing how much patience Steve has for the vulgarity expressed in this thread.  It is disgraceful this thread is allowed to continue. 

Right? I can’t believe Steve still allows Troll Guy to post.  Also, and let’s be honest here, you‘ve really been a solid troll for the last couple of years.  

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13 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

I think we should avoid discussion of legal liability and the president’s powers. I honestly think we are in a situation which really can involve new laws and new interpretations. Everyone should just focus on doing the thing that reduces death the most. You can hedge any statement of immunity to things that are ”later determined to not be ‘grossly negligent.’”
 

But the line ‘a reasonable approach will save lives.’ I do not trust that this has been properly answered and considered. Even Bill Gates interview notes side effects and needing to determine the effects, but what if the effect of waiting is 500-600 thousand deaths whereas an immediate release of a vaccine is 500 thousand people with chronic liver disease. What are the odds of a major long term disease? Is there an example we can look at for a failed vaccine launch?

I am highly skeptical that we can contain this virus with testing at this point, either by its scope in the US or simply by our incompetence. If we can’t, then we either need a vaccine or herd immunity. If we choose herd immunity, there is a potential we could get there with reduced fatalities, but even then it is above 350 thousand. Based on our incompetence so far, I think it would be over 1 million people.  A vaccine would solve all of our problems, and I just starting to think we may run into a time where we have to roll the dice. If so, then we need a vaccine where hundreds to maybe even thousands have received the vaccine and then exposure to Covid19 to test its efficacy, and we really do not have time to waste.

Sorry, I thought you asked a question which I attempted to answer.  If you were not interested in a possible answer then you should not have asked the question.  Clearly you have a preconceived position which is your right but there is no point is arguing about it then.

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7 hours ago, courtside said:

You literally nitpicked a poster twice whether or not we'd reach 26k in 5 or 6 days, as if it mattered. You have repeatedly supported the posts of one of the most incorrect posters here, Old Guy. And, isn't political to be anti-racist. It isn't political to have accountability and understanding of why we are here. Lots and lots of panicked, unhinged posts from you Brian. What has transpired thus far did not have to happen. That matters. That's important. Your unwillingness to acknowledge it speaks volumes 

 

I never defended his behavior.  All I did was point out that I knew the guy had the credentials to know what he was talking about. He was wrong, but the fact he has those credentials was true then and it is true now.  His behavior after that was abhorrent. The personal attacks towards two posters was particularly disgusting.  

I didn’t think that needed to be pointed out. It was obvious just as the disgusting behaviors of others in this thread. I don’t like old guy. He has always come across as a pompous ass lacking any charm or humor.  So much so that for a longtime I thought he was most likely another poster putting on an act.

 

 

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7 hours ago, moytoy12 said:

Right? I can’t believe Steve still allows Troll Guy to post.  Also, and let’s be honest here, you‘ve really been a solid troll for the last couple of years.  

My vocabulary doesn't include the F word.  Guess repeatedly using that makes you a real man.

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3 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Sorry, I thought you asked a question which I attempted to answer.  If you were not interested in a possible answer then you should not have asked the question.  Clearly you have a preconceived position which is your right but there is no point is arguing about it then.

I don’t think I was rude. My response was not meant to be rude, and I apologize if it came across that way. I am trying to keep the ball rolling on this.

I am trying to drill down on a point though. The medical community is simply saying that we cannot have a quick vaccine because the risks are too high and it may cause problems. However, I think that unless it is shown that the risks have a decent or high chance of killing 500 thousand people, then the risks outweigh the status quo.  I do not believe the medical community as a whole is geared towards making that kind of determination, and I am not seeing evidence that any vaccine is being pushed to a large group, like 2000 to 4000 people so that we can make a final determination on its efficacy. I think we should do this now.

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1 hour ago, AnkielBreakers said:

I don’t think I was rude. This was not a finite question, and I am keeping the ball rolling.

I am trying to drill down on a point though. The medical community is simply saying that we cannot have a quick vaccine because the risks are too high and it may cause problems. However, I think that unless it is shown that the risks have a decent or high chance of killing 500 thousand people, then the risks outweigh the status quo.  I do not believe the medical community as a whole is geared towards making that kind of determination, and I am not seeing evidence that any vaccine is being pushed to a large group, like 2000 to 4000 people so that we can make a final determination on its efficacy. I think we should do this now.

Actually, here is a very straight forward question/proposition. Today, at least one vaccine is going through human trials. From what I read, this would be provided to 50 people and its effects noted. Later this would go through a second phase and then a third phase. Basically ramping up the amount of people who would receive the vaccine.

Why are we following this procedure? Why not administer the vaccine to the final number (let’s say 4,000 people) that will receive it in its final phase now? I understand that all 4,000 might have negative effects. They might all die. However, if we cut 6 months off of the vaccine development timeline, how many people will live, 400,000? So, if we take the top 7 vaccine options, through which manufacturing is being ramped up immediately and funded by Bill Gates, and we push them into this final phase, let’s say 28,000 people are put at risk. If this can save 372,000 lives, why wouldn’t we do it?

This may sound harsh or inhumane, but in my mind we are at war with this virus. We need to start thinking of this as a war, because it does not look like there is a cheap way to exit this thing.

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I just want to say I have viewed Brian as apolitical and not taking any sides. His amount of optimism and pessimism has varied, but I’d say that is normal both given the oddity of the times and the flow of new information. 
 

Brian has brought great articles and interest to this topic to me. The studies showing some blood types may do better was fascinating. 

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Chinese government admits to undercounting , added 50% to Wuhan death totals on Friday, for a grand total 3,869. So it's probably 5 times that.  In fact, Wuhan residents think it's closer to 40,000 considering all the funeral and cremation services.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/beijing-admits-to-under-counting-coronavirus-deaths-raises-wuhan-death-toll-by-exactly-50-percent/

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All of this political nonsense is fine, death counts, whatever.  Here is, for me, a real issue.  China is blocking movement of PPE, made in China by US companies, as they say they may still need them.  This article is from the NY Post, but the same news is on many websites.  After this is over, we need to move all these jobs back here.  So we pay a little more, but we aren't at the mercy of the Chinese or any other country.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/08/healthcare-workers-suing-china-for-hoarding-ppe/

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2 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

I don’t think I was rude. My response was not meant to be rude, and I apologize if it came across that way. I am trying to keep the ball rolling on this.

I am trying to drill down on a point though. The medical community is simply saying that we cannot have a quick vaccine because the risks are too high and it may cause problems. However, I think that unless it is shown that the risks have a decent or high chance of killing 500 thousand people, then the risks outweigh the status quo.  I do not believe the medical community as a whole is geared towards making that kind of determination, and I am not seeing evidence that any vaccine is being pushed to a large group, like 2000 to 4000 people so that we can make a final determination on its efficacy. I think we should do this now.

I never said you were rude.  

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54 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

All of this political nonsense is fine, death counts, whatever.  Here is, for me, a real issue.  China is blocking movement of PPE, made in China by US companies, as they say they may still need them.  This article is from the NY Post, but the same news is on many websites.  After this is over, we need to move all these jobs back here.  So we pay a little more, but we aren't at the mercy of the Chinese or any other country.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/08/healthcare-workers-suing-china-for-hoarding-ppe/

You're assuming that "being at the mercy of Chinese" outweighs "let's make the most money for our shareholders" in the cost/benefit analysis of corporate decision makers.  If the corporations were that patriotic, they never would have moved all those jobs offshore in the first place.

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1 hour ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Actually, here is a very straight forward question/proposition. Today, at least one vaccine is going through human trials. From what I read, this would be provided to 50 people and its effects noted. Later this would go through a second phase and then a third phase. Basically ramping up the amount of people who would receive the vaccine.

Why are we following this procedure? Why not administer the vaccine to the final number (let’s say 4,000 people) that will receive it in its final phase now? I understand that all 4,000 might have negative effects. They might all die. However, if we cut 6 months off of the vaccine development timeline, how many people will live, 400,000? So, if we take the top 7 vaccine options, through which manufacturing is being ramped up immediately and funded by Bill Gates, and we push them into this final phase, let’s say 28,000 people are put at risk. If this can save 372,000 lives, why wouldn’t we do it?

This may sound harsh or inhumane, but in my mind we are at war with this virus. We need to start thinking of this as a war, because it does not look like there is a cheap way to exit this thing.

I see what you are saying but I think the real problem is that a vaccine needs to be tested on a healthy individual. Realistically, it's very hard to find 4,000 people willing to be tested on a totally unproven vaccine. Maybe at the end of the day you just need to provide financial incentives to get them to do so, because it's unlikely you can find ready volunteers in that quantity. And you can't draft people into doing this, and least not in a post draft era U.S.  China probably would.

Drug treatments are a completely different story as a sick person will take anything if they think it increases the chances of living. 

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14 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I see what you are saying but I think the real problem is that a vaccine needs to be tested on a healthy individual. Realistically, it's very hard to find 4,000 people willing to be tested on a totally unproven vaccine. Maybe at the end of the day you just need to provide financial incentives to get them to do so, because it's unlikely you can find ready volunteers in that quantity. And you can't draft people into doing this, and least not in a post draft era U.S.  China probably would.

Drug treatments are a completely different story as a sick person will take anything if they think it increases the chances of living. 

Relevant: SLU has one of a handful nationally recognized and federally funded vaccine research and development centers. I believe that they will be participating in COVID vaccine development soon. I encourage anyone in the area who's healthy to check them out, not necessarily just for COVID. They pay well too - you could make a few grand per study.

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