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Fred Thatch article

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Isolated myopathy? Paging @Old guy

im so proud of Fred no matter what happens 

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Prayers and best wishes for a full recovery, Fred. 

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I can’t tell from the article if it’s permanent and you just manage it or if this is supposed to eventually go away?

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So they know what it is but don’t really have a treatment plan?  I’m still very concerned. I’m assuming this is something he will have for the rest of his life. I guess the time off helped him?

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7 minutes ago, Westy03 said:

So they know what it is but don’t really have a treatment plan?  I’m still very concerned. I’m assuming this is something he will have for the rest of his life. I guess the time off helped him?

Had the same thoughts/questions after reading the story. 

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It is not Fred that is failing the test, it is his muscles. As per the article he has a fairly rare muscle condition and his mitochondria are involved. Muscle biopsies were used in the diagnosis. The findings are not benign, even if he is allowed back into play. I know his heart is in it, I know he really wants to play, and I also know that probably no one knows how his legs will react to a full game. If I was Ford I would keep him on a program that gradually increases playing time until the Dayton game and then, if he shows he can take it, give him a full battle test against the toughest opponent we have left ahead. Thatch is really not required to win against Duquesne, U Mass, GW, and probably not even against Richmond.

There is no reason to really push him into play, not until the Dayton game. Using him initially against lesser opponents for limited but increasing amounts of time, would be a way to test how he holds against lesser opponents. If he does well with limited initial play, he can be eased into longer minutes of play. There is really no reason to rush this transition back into full play status. I would not throw him into the court and expect him to last t he full game and help us win until he has shown he can take mild to moderate doses of playing minutes, and a full practice schedule. If he shows he is ready and can take it, then I would cut him loose against our opponents. Of course the key to the whole process will be Fred himself, no one can tell how much pain and discomfort he has during or after play, and since he does want to play he may tend to keep any pain and discomfort to himself. Ford must trust that he will be truthful when he reports he is fine after playing for X amount of time. This will not be easy for Fred to do.

Let's get serious about this, the only group of disorders I can come up with from the information provided in the article is the group of disorders called "Mitochondrial Myopathies." If this is indeed the case, these disorders are genetic in nature, varied in manifestations, generally rare, and have no cure, at least not so far. All that is available currently for treatment is control of the symptoms and prevention of permanent damage. The level of exertion demanded from the muscles is the central determinant factor in these disorders. Basketball players have extremely high exertional demand levels during play. What I wrote above is my opinion as to how he could be eased into play, but the main question to be answered is can play regularly or not?

You can check the Mitochondrial Myopathy fact sheet published by the  NIH here: https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Mitochondrial-Myopathy-Fact-Sheet

Sorry Slu72, there is no full recovery for these disorders. I assume Fred has been made aware of this by now.

I will pray for Fred, since as we all know miracles do happen at least occasionally.

 

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2 minutes ago, Old guy said:

It is not Fred that is failing the test, it is his muscles. As per the article he has a fairly rare muscle condition and his mitochondria are involved. Muscle biopsies were used in the diagnosis. The findings are not benign, even if he is allowed back into play. I know his heart is in it, I know he really wants to play, and I also know that probably no one knows how his legs will react to a full game. If I was Ford I would keep him on a program that gradually increases playing time until the Dayton game and then, if he shows he can take it, give him a full battle test against the toughest opponent we have left ahead. Thatch is really not required to win against Duquesne, U Mass, GW, and probably not even against Richmond.

There is no reason to really push him into play, not until the Dayton game. Using him initially against lesser opponents for limited but increasing amounts of time, would be a way to test how he holds against lesser opponents. If he does well with limited initial play, he can be eased into longer minutes of play. There is really no reason to rush this transition back into full play status. I would not throw him into the court and expect him to last t he full game and help us win until he has shown he can take mild to moderate doses of playing minutes, and a full practice schedule. If he shows he is ready and can take it, then I would cut him loose against our opponents. Of course the key to the whole process will be Fred himself, no one can tell how much pain and discomfort he has during or after play, and since he does want to play he may tend to keep any pain and discomfort to himself. Ford must trust that he will be truthful when he reports he is fine after playing for X amount of time. This will not be easy for Fred to do.

Let's get serious about this, the only group of disorders I can come up with from the information provided in the article is the group of disorders called "Mitochondrial Myopathies." If this is indeed the case, these disorders are genetic in nature, varied in manifestations, generally rare, and have no cure, at least not so far. All that is available currently for treatment is control of the symptoms and prevention of permanent damage. The level of exertion demanded from the muscles is the central determinant factor in these disorders. Basketball players have extremely high exertional demand levels during play. What I wrote above is my opinion as to how he could be eased into play, but the main question to be answered is can play regularly or not?

You can check the Mitochondrial Myopathy fact sheet published by the  NIH here: https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Mitochondrial-Myopathy-Fact-Sheet

Sorry Slu72, there is no full recovery for these disorders. I assume Fred has been made aware of this by now.

I will pray for Fred, since as we all know miracles do happen at least occasionally.

 

That doesn't sound great. Kind of seems like Fred will be on a restricted program and if he eventually pushes too hard it'll flair up again? 

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More or less, yes, that is the question here. The other question is how to  adjust his supplements in order to keep him out of trouble. Please check the link I gave, this is not a simple disorder, it is a whole variety of disorders linked by the mitochondrial problems. For all I know he can play, with proper care, for a fairly significant amount of time, or maybe not. There is a lot of unanswered questions to be dealt with. That is, assuming the PD information is basically correct.

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one comment, i have always said it takes more to practice than play a game.   i.e. practices are typically 2-3 hours of all out exertion.   a game is 20-30 minutes with rest breaks.   so the gradual increases in game minutes i assume old guy you also are saying there is a a correspondent increase in practice time?

question, why is this first showing up now if this is a genetic condition?

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As much as I would not like to say this but he may end up finishing school on some other type of schollie liked the kid - his name escapes me now - with all the knee problems a few years ago.  Tough break for Fred.  

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4 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

one comment, i have always said it takes more to practice than play a game.   i.e. practices are typically 2-3 hours of all out exertion.   a game is 20-30 minutes with rest breaks.   so the gradual increases in game minutes i assume old guy you also are saying there is a a correspondent increase in practice time?

question, why is this first showing up now if this is a genetic condition?

I would guess this is not something you test for routinely.  Doctors are taught that when they hear hoof beats you think horses not zebras which makes all the sense in the world.  

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2 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

As much as I would not like to say this but he may end up finishing school on some other type of schollie liked the kid - his name escapes me now - with all the knee problems a few years ago.  Tough break for Fred.  

Femi John. I unfortunately had the same thought 

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18 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

As much as I would not like to say this but he may end up finishing school on some other type of schollie liked the kid - his name escapes me now - with all the knee problems a few years ago.  Tough break for Fred.  

Can’t disagree with this take.

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22 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

one comment, i have always said it takes more to practice than play a game.   i.e. practices are typically 2-3 hours of all out exertion.   a game is 20-30 minutes with rest breaks.   so the gradual increases in game minutes i assume old guy you also are saying there is a a correspondent increase in practice time?

question, why is this first showing up now if this is a genetic condition?

In addition to what cheeseman said, he likely didn’t experience any noticeable symptoms/issues until recently (within the last 6 months). 

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5 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

In addition to what cheeseman said, he likely didn’t experience any noticeable symptoms/issues until recently (within the last 6 months). 

which is what confuses me.    i of course have zero medical knowledge even though my wife and daughter in law are RN's, my son is a nuclear medicine guy, and my daughter is a bio medical engineer, i am the dumb one.   family dinners i get lost in the conversations.  but it would seem to me a genetic disorder as this is described in stu's article would have shown up long before his second year in college for a career basketball player.    why?  remember, lecturers, i am the dumb one.  a true MBM

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From what I can tell from the article, the treatment is drinking tons of water and an altering of Fred's diet.  After that, they're playing it by ear.   Fred was already one of my favorite Billikens but his indomitable will in the face of a life-altering condition has made him one of my favorite people .  He's a better man than me.

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5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

which is what confuses me.    i of course have zero medical knowledge even though my wife and daughter in law are RN's, my son is a nuclear medicine guy, and my daughter is a bio medical engineer, i am the dumb one.   family dinners i get lost in the conversations.  but it would seem to me a genetic disorder as this is described in stu's article would have shown up long before his second year in college for a career basketball player.    why?  remember, lecturers, i am the dumb one.  a true MBM

I'm with you when it comes to the medical profession. Who knows the reasons why illnesses/diseases suddenly happen, but we see it a lot with family, friends, et al. One day a person appears in peak physical condition and the next day they discover he/she's got cancer, heart disease, or some other unknown malady. Fred's problem sounds rather mysterious and serious, since Old Guy said at present time there is no known cure or the best way to treat it. It must really be a rare genetic disorder given how much time and money is spent these days on finding cures and treatments for the various diseases that plague the human race. The best we can hope for is that it disappears as mysteriously as it appeared. I know that's probably unrealistic, but as Old Guy said miracles do happen. 

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Autoimmune disease is in my family and I am told that this typically rears its ugly head around ages 18 to 22.  Of course there are exceptions and differences.  And not saying what Fred has is even the same - as it appears different.  Though possibly the timing is similar.  

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I am just a guy who doesn’t know anything but I think it’s kind of common for certain diseases/conditions to pop up later in life.

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Scary stuff.  Just information here, but Fred averaged just under 20 mpg last season, and peaked at 37 minutes against Oregon State. 

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55 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Femi John. I unfortunately had the same thought 

Sort of eerie coincidence because I always thought that Fred seemed like a similar type player as Femi.  Femi was 6-4, 215lbs and known mostly for his defense.  Fred 6-3, 215lbs and again D was his calling card.  Both were local players (or close to it in Fred's case).  I assumed with Fred we'd finally get to see that type of player blossom over 4 years with good health.

I'm going to stay positive for now and hope that Fred has / will learn to manage his condition enough to play at a high level.  This is going to make for a great personal interest story during the CBS feature on Fred when we make our Final Four run next season.

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-hope Fred is able to be a full 100% very soon, if he can continue with bball that's just a nice plus

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Many diseases (including genetic disorders) are triggered by a viruses in someone who is genetically disposed to the disorder.  There is so much in medicine that is not clearly understood.  The diagnosis is apparently based on a pathologist reading of a muscle biopsy.  It sounds as if Thatch is improving.  Hopefully he can fully recover and be able to play college basketball

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