PGA Pros loving St.Louis

[slufanskip]

25 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Not all that many year ago, a 240 yard drive was good. Nicklaus revolutionized the game with his strength and distance.  Then Tiger did the same. Now 336 yard drives over the sand traps by Koeptke!  Yes the equipment needs to be re-examined

My question though is have the courses changed? Are they longer now than 40-50 years ago?

[Old guy]

The answer to that is yes and no. The TPC courses have generally longer holes, but the degree of difficulty of a hole may be increased successfully by narrowing the fairways, growing large trees close to the fairways, using traps and doglegs. The greens may have all kinds of bumps and variations in level to make putting a lot more difficult. I read a couple of years ago that a major tournament was scheduled for a pretty old course with smaller length holes. It turned out that the pros had a very hard time at that particular course because of a combination of the factors I mentioned. It was a pretty  low scoring tournament. However, the viewing public prefers visible action and drama (lots of birdies, etc...). This presumably will lead to regulations limiting the club technology and to steady growth of the length of the holes.

The short answer to your question is yes, there has been steady growth of the length of the holes.

[slu72 fan]

12 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

My question though is have the courses changed? Are they longer now than 40-50 years ago?

Yes, much longer. Bellerive used to be considered a monster. 

[slufanskip]

Thanks for the answer guys. So at least the length and possibly the difficulty of the courses has increased with the advances in equipment.

[Old guy]

Sulfan, I think the PGA restricts the club and balls technological advances not because the new technology will make the courses more difficult but because it will make them easier to play. If they allow the use of unrestricted technological advances, then the only solution they have to maintain the difficulty of courses is indeed the very expensive reconstruction of courses to make them forever longer and add obstacles. As long as club technology is restricted to certain levels, course growth needs may be kept to a doable level. Just consider this, you simply cannot expand a course size beyond the limits imposed by the capital available, and the availability of land to expand into. Take Belrive, it is a large and very nice club surrounded by expensive real estate. How are they going to expand beyond their current size?

Nope, the advances in club and ball technology will be kept in check, and player performance will become more dependent upon player conditioning, strength and training. Both Koepke and Tiger are large sized and very strong, Tiger has the disadvantage of age and physical wear and tear which is counteracted by experience. Koepke is young and has yet to  reach his peak, but has less experience than Tiger does. Interesting situation. Woodland apparently could not deal successfully with the strains (physical and mental) of the competition this year.

What this means to say is that the differences between the pros and the common golfers will continue growing, and technology that could help amateurs to play more like a pro will either not be available or will be highly restricted. 

[slufanskip]

29 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Sulfan, I think the PGA restricts the club and balls technological advances not because the new technology will make the courses more difficult but because it will make them easier to play. If they allow the use of unrestricted technological advances, then the only solution they have to maintain the difficulty of courses is indeed the very expensive reconstruction of courses to make them forever longer and add obstacles. As long as club technology is restricted to certain levels, course growth needs may be kept to a doable level. Just consider this, you simply cannot expand a course size beyond the limits imposed by the capital available, and the availability of land to expand into. Take Belrive, it is a large and very nice club surrounded by expensive real estate. How are they going to expand beyond their current size?

Nope, the advances in club and ball technology will be kept in check, and player performance will become more dependent upon player conditioning, strength and training. Both Koepke and Tiger are large sized and very strong, Tiger has the disadvantage of age and physical wear and tear which is counteracted by experience. Koepke is young and has yet to  reach his peak, but has less experience than Tiger does. Interesting situation. Woodland apparently could not deal successfully with the strains (physical and mental) of the competition this year.

What this means to say is that the differences between the pros and the common golfers will continue growing, and technology that could help amateurs to play more like a pro will either not be available or will be highly restricted. 

Did you actually think I thought they were restricting club and ball technological advances because it will make the course more difficult? Yep, that's what I thought better clubs and balls will make the course harder. Thanks for clearing that up

[gobillsgo]

16 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Did you actually think I thought they were restricting club and ball technological advances because it will make the course more difficult? Yep, that's what I thought better clubs and balls will make the course harder. Thanks for clearing that up

Old guy is a bit too smart for his own good. It seems to make him think the rest of us have the brain capacity of the Bony-Eared Assfish (real thing, apparently). 

[Old guy]

No, I do not think that is the case. I happen to know a lot about golf technicalities and was just sharing them. This balances my total ignorance about basketball coaching, positioning of players and strategies on how best to use players in the court. I think it is a fair deal. If there is anyone in this board that has the basketball IQ of the Bony-Eared Assfish, that is probably me. I appreciate reading what you guys have to say about basketball strategy and moves with no feeling of being put down by anyone. I think you should appreciate what I said about Golf. However, if you feel I am dumping on you I will just restrain myself from sharing knowledge with you all. Is this a good deal?

Oh, and please remember I am one of those people who does not understand or use sarcasm as a tool.

[Old guy]

2 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Thanks for the answer guys. So at least the length and possibly the difficulty of the courses has increased with the advances in equipment.

Sorry Sulfan, I misinterpreted what you were saying here, I thought you were saying that advances in equipment helped increase the length and difficulty of the courses. My bad, and my sincere apologies to you.

[almaman]

45 minutes ago, Old guy said:

No, I do not think that is the case. I happen to know a lot about golf technicalities and was just sharing them. This balances my total ignorance about basketball coaching, positioning of players and strategies on how best to use players in the court. I think it is a fair deal. If there is anyone in this board that has the basketball IQ of the Bony-Eared Assfish, that is probably me. I appreciate reading what you guys have to say about basketball strategy and moves with no feeling of being put down by anyone. I think you should appreciate what I said about Golf. However, if you feel I am dumping on you I will just restrain myself from sharing knowledge with you all. Is this a good deal?

Oh, and please remember I am one of those people who does not understand or use sarcasm as a tool.

we may give you a bit of grieve but at least with me prefer you to keep on posting as you do. If not informative we can still goof on it as part of what you bring to the board. 

[rgbilliken]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

No, I do not think that is the case. I happen to know a lot about golf technicalities and was just sharing them. This balances my total ignorance about basketball coaching, positioning of players and strategies on how best to use players in the court. I think it is a fair deal. If there is anyone in this board that has the basketball IQ of the Bony-Eared Assfish, that is probably me. I appreciate reading what you guys have to say about basketball strategy and moves with no feeling of being put down by anyone. I think you should appreciate what I said about Golf. However, if you feel I am dumping on you I will just restrain myself from sharing knowledge with you all. Is this a good deal?

Oh, and please remember I am one of those people who does not understand or use sarcasm as a tool.

Never change, Old guy!!! Easily one of the most entertaining posters on this board.

[Old guy]

Almaman, I do not mind getting grief and having people acting like I am some kind of Mr. Magoo. However I am not willing to take crap from an intellectually challenged/insecure buffoon like GoBillsGo who feels personally put down by what I said.

At this time all I have to say to GoBillsGo is: "If the shoe fits wear it." I already have you on ignore and request that you do likewise with me. 

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Sorry Sulfan, I misinterpreted what you were saying here, I thought you were saying that advances in equipment helped increase the length and difficulty of the courses. My bad, and my sincere apologies to you.

No apology necessary. You're good in my book. 

[Old guy]

And you are good in mine as well.

[Cowboy]

14 hours ago, Old guy said:

The PGA is known to examine equipment and make rules that eliminate the use of certain improvements that would produce significant advantage. For example in Hogan's time (I am really not that old), there were no drivers. To tee off  the pros used #1 and #2 irons, try and find one nowadays. The shafts were wood, and the balls were made with gutapercha (perhaps this was even earlier on than Hogan) and then the modern balls were developed with their rubber/plastic layers, dimpling, and surface compounds. Some types of balls are not legal for competition nowadays but you can use them for daily play. When drivers were developed they were made out of wood, later on they were made out of metal. The size of the driver heads, small initially, grew up until the PGA placed a limit at 460 cc, they still make larger driver heads but they are not legal for competition. The MOI (Moment of Inertia, measures resistance to twisting of the club when hitting out of center) of clubs was refined until the PGA put a limit to this improvement. The grooves on the wedges progressed a lot, increasing the levels of backspin possible, until some kind of fancy grooves were barred from competition. And so  on and so forth. The drivers used by Tiger and by Koepke are not what you  can buy in a store, they are specially made for them and painstakingly tuned during manufacturing to suit the pro. When you see the add saying XXX won using a Titleist (or any other brand) driver, this is not what you are going to buy in the store. For that matter if you managed to buy an old driver used by Tiger in competition, you would never ever would be able to swing it like he does. This custom crafting and tuning applies to putters or any other clubs professionals use. Finally, during the championship Adam Scott was using a putter with the long shaft that rests against your chest. I believe the PGA is considering banning those from competition. 

The process as far as the PGA appears to be concerned is to allow some degree of innovation and improvement of the equipment but not so much that an unfair advantage is gained by some players, or to the level that golf courses will have to be redesigned for competition. How about reaching a 1000 yd. par 4 for competitive play?

-just to clarify, the rules of golf, including conforming equipment standards, are issued by the USGA and R&A

-the PGA of America owned and conducted the event last week at Bellerive 

[kappy96]

On 8/12/2018 at 7:23 PM, billikenfan05 said:

The PGA basically said they aren’t going back to bellerive. They didn’t like how easy the course played. They wanted the champion to be around -3 not -16

The PGA's questions as it relates to Bellerive as a major venue in the future have nothing to do with the scoring...it is the challenges that the footprint (or lack of) the course and surrounding area poses for the massive infrastructure a tournament of this size demands.  Bellerive is certainly still in the mix for future events but they will need to address that. 

[Old guy]

Thank you Cowboy, I stand corrected as to the origin of the rules.

[billiken_roy]

while spoon indeed sent attendance through the roof, let's not forget it was during a time when the football cardinals had left and the Rams hadnt come yet.  I believe there is an amount of sports viewing dollars that will go out someway somehow and i am sure that the billikens were a bigtime benefactor of those football fans wanting to do and spend something.   dont get me wrong, spoon legitimately brought the folks in.   though the claggett highmark and waldman teams deserved the attention.   they were fantastic entertainment. 

but we will never see those butts in the seats numbers again.  especially since chaifetz doesnt have that kind of capacity.   shame because otherwise this team we are about to experience would have likely at least approached the spoon golden years if there was room for the bandwagon jumpers.   personally i dont care who gets in.   i got my seats.  

[SluSignGuy]

Out of curiosity, what was the typical ticket cost to get into the championship.  I was sitting watching on TV Sunday questioning if I would regret not going to what was probably my only easy chance to see Tiger.

[billikenfan05]

29 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

Out of curiosity, what was the typical ticket cost to get into the championship.  I was sitting watching on TV Sunday questioning if I would regret not going to what was probably my only easy chance to see Tiger.

I paid 125 + fees for Saturday on stubhub . PGA offers up to 4 free u17 admissions per paid adult. So I was able to take my little cousin who golfs

[Slu let the dogs out?]

This article was pretty good. I also want to take Janet to a game this year:

https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2018/8/13/17680740/tiger-woods-2018-pga-championship-st-louis-bellerive

 

[SluSignGuy]

52 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I paid 125 + fees for Saturday on stubhub . PGA offers up to 4 free u17 admissions per paid adult. So I was able to take my little cousin who golfs

Thanks.

[gobillsgo]

3 hours ago, Old guy said:

Almaman, I do not mind getting grief and having people acting like I am some kind of Mr. Magoo. However I am not willing to take crap from an intellectually challenged/insecure buffoon like GoBillsGo who feels personally put down by what I said.

At this time all I have to say to GoBillsGo is: "If the shoe fits wear it." I already have you on ignore and request that you do likewise with me. 

old guy can’t take a little ribbing so he’s taking his ball and going home   

Relax chief, I was giving you a little grief. I like your posts

[billikenfan05]

15 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

old guy can’t take a little ribbing so he’s taking his ball and going home   

Relax chief, I was giving you a little grief. I like your posts

Old guy is an act

[slufan13]

1 minute ago, billikenfan05 said:

Old guy is an act

Am I the only one who has never found old guy's act enjoyable or entertaining?

I just wish I knew which poster he was. I have my suspicions