Basketball spending

[billikenfan05]

Win and spend money, it doesn’t have to be one or the other. 

[ARon]

24 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Disagree, we got the arena only because one man, Chaifetz, got a hold of us and gave us a dream and a pile of money to do it with. No Chaifetz, no arena. If the day after tomorrow Mr. of Ms X comes out of the woodwork with a pile of money in hand and a dream, I am pretty sure SLU will find the way to accommodate  his or her desires. Find the guy or gal, then you can build his or her dream, whatever the dream may be.

I am not sure what came first the idea of building a new arena and get a top 50 program, or Chaifetz. At any rate we built a great arena, the part of the top 50 program has not been achieved as yet. I am pretty sure that the current arena would not have been built without Chaifetz's intervention. Looking at future plans, upfront investing out of the budget into issues like these is not feasible given the level of our current endowment, income, and expenses. Pestello has been very clear about this in the near past.

What SLU really needs is a big donor with a big athletic related dream involving SLU. If we do not get that but manage to get a really good team that wins consistently we may also raise enough money to do this, even without the big donor. 

90% of this is not accurate.

What is correct is that no one should expect a significant increase in expenditures without significant growth in donor $$$. Higher education in this country is in a bubble right now, and all of these institutions are preparing themselves to be able to survive that bubble popping.  SLU’s endowment and operating budget are already under enough pressure, the arena is not yet paid for, and significant new spending on athletics would be imprudent and not go over well with the faculty.

[Quality Is Job 1]

35 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Disagree, we got the arena only because one man, Chaifetz, got a hold of us and gave us a dream and a pile of money to do it with. No Chaifetz, no arena. If the day after tomorrow Mr. of Ms X comes out of the woodwork with a pile of money in hand and a dream, I am pretty sure SLU will find the way to accommodate  his or her desires. Find the guy or gal, then you can build his or her dream, whatever the dream may be.

I am not sure what came first the idea of building a new arena and get a top 50 program, or Chaifetz. At any rate we built a great arena, the part of the top 50 program has not been achieved as yet. I am pretty sure that the current arena would not have been built without Chaifetz's intervention. Looking at future plans, upfront investing out of the budget into issues like these is not feasible given the level of our current endowment, income, and expenses. Pestello has been very clear about this in the near past.

What SLU really needs is a big donor with a big athletic related dream involving SLU. If we do not get that but manage to get a really good team that wins consistently we may also raise enough money to do this, even without the big donor. 

This doesn't ring true.  The arena was Biondi's vision, and he kicked off the fundraising for it years before Chaifetz made his naming-rights donation.  Chaifetz's donation wasn't even half of the funds raised for the building, so you can't give him all of the credit.  Were you here when they were doing the bricks thing, and the board members were talking about popping for a billikens.com brick?

I will give Dr. Chaifetz a lot of credit regarding luring Coach Majerus, but Biondi had said over 10 years prior to that that he wanted SLU to be a Top 50 program.  But he really was clueless about how to accomplish that.

[willie]

46 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

This doesn't ring true.  The arena was Biondi's vision, and he kicked off the fundraising for it years before Chaifetz made his naming-rights donation.  Chaifetz's donation wasn't even half of the funds raised for the building, so you can't give him all of the credit.  Were you here when they were doing the bricks thing, and the board members were talking about popping for a billikens.com brick?

I will give Dr. Chaifetz a lot of credit regarding luring Coach Majerus, but Biondi had said over 10 years prior to that that he wanted SLU to be a Top 50 program.  But he really was clueless about how to accomplish that.

Biondi promised a top 50 program 30 years ago but was unwilling to raise the money until the Doisey research center was funded. Chaifetz was very much a late comer to the arena. He put the fundraising over the top but was far from the instigator of the arena. I believe the arena was supposed to cost 50 million. What was Doc’s contribution? 6 mil. Thanks to a Doc for all he does but let’s not make him out to be T Boone Pickens. 

[Old guy]

14 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

This doesn't ring true.  The arena was Biondi's vision, and he kicked off the fundraising for it years before Chaifetz made his naming-rights donation.  Chaifetz's donation wasn't even half of the funds raised for the building, so you can't give him all of the credit.  Were you here when they were doing the bricks thing, and the board members were talking about popping for a billikens.com brick?

I will give Dr. Chaifetz a lot of credit regarding luring Coach Majerus, but Biondi had said over 10 years prior to that that he wanted SLU to be a Top 50 program.  But he really was clueless about how to accomplish that.

Let's see, where was I at the time? I moved to St. Louis in 2002 into a new job and after my divorce. I really had little contact with SLU or the basketball program until 2007 when I first met the gal that became my second wife. After meeting her and going with her regularly to the basketball games, I developed my interest and fandom of SLU. I never went to any games in the Savin Center or any of the other places SLU played at. So I am a relatively recent fan even though my wife is an alum of SLU (bachelor's and two masters from SLU).

I want to make two points: 1. Wherever the idea of being a top 50 program came from, it has not been realized yet. and 2. Without Chaifetz money and enthusiasm, it is  possible that a new arena might have been built by SLU but it would never have been the Chaifetz arena, they would have done with a considerably lower budget than what they did it with. 

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, willie said:

Biondi promised a top 50 program 30 years ago but was unwilling to raise the money until the Doisey research center was funded. Chaifetz was very much a late comer to the arena. He put the fundraising over the top but was far from the instigator of the arena. I believe the arena was supposed to cost 50 million. What was Doc’s contribution? 6 mil. Thanks to a Doc for all he does but let’s not make him out to be T Boone Pickens. 

Willie, who among SLU's big donors is closer to T Bone Pickens than Chaifetz?

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, Old guy said:

Let's see, where was I at the time. I moved to St. Louis in 2002 into a new job and after my divorce. I really had little contact with SLU or the basketball program until 2007 when I first me the gal that became my first wife. After meeting her and going with her regularly to the basketball games, I developed my interest and fandom of SLU. I never went to any games in the Savin Center or any of the other places SLU played at. So I am a relatively recent fan even though my wife is an alum of SLU (bachelor's and two masters from SLU).

I want to make two points: 1. Wherever the idea of being a top 50 program came from, it has not been realized yet. and 2. Without Chaifetz money and enthusiasm, it is  possible that a new arena might have been built by SLU but it would never have been the Chaifetz arena, they would have done with a considerably lower budget than what they did it with. 

I don't believe that. We were getting close in fundraising and Dr C came in at the end and made his gift. The arena was being built and it would have been just as nice. My memory is Dr C was about 10% of the budget. Obviously a lot of money but it was being done regardless, he just got the ball rolling sooner

[thetorch]

Construction cost of the arena was way more than they had anticipated.  There were unforeseen issues on site, specifically an underground creek.  This caused the building plans to be changed for a while.  There was a time during construction where SLU was worried if they had enough money but some 11th hour donations helped shore it up.  If my memory serves me the original building was designed to hold over 12k.  It was drawn down to reduce costs but then an influx of money led SLU to expand on the plans for offices and practice center.

[willie]

6 hours ago, thetorch said:

Construction cost of the arena was way more than they had anticipated.  There were unforeseen issues on site, specifically an underground creek.  This caused the building plans to be changed for a while.  There was a time during construction where SLU was worried if they had enough money but some 11th hour donations helped shore it up.  If my memory serves me the original building was designed to hold over 12k.  It was drawn down to reduce costs but then an influx of money led SLU to expand on the plans for offices and practice center.

  If my memory is correct the building was originally planned to be 12k. To do this size they  would have to have 2  concourses. Levick was also advocating for a practice court and offices. They struck a compromise to downsize and build the offices. Great decision in my mind. I also think this is about the time Doc came in. Former Blues owner Mike Shanahan was the original head of fundraising. 

[Old guy]

There are issues that happen frequently during construction of major projects like cost overruns and unforeseen difficulties with whatever it may be, from site to permits. Delays and higher costs of construction, as well as modifications of the  plans to fit the available budget are common. Sometimes the projects are abandoned or re-purposed. Now ask yourselves, what do you think would have happened to our arena without Chaifetz's contribution? 

Biondi, by nature, was a grandiose man who thought in grandiose terms. Many of the goals set by such men are never achieved. He was planning an arena with 12K seating with a budget that, without  Chaifetz's contribution, might have seated 5K (not counting the cost overruns due to having to modify the project). Our current arena is smaller than what was originally planned. Without Chaifetz's contribution and push it could well have been a lot smaller than what it is now, or in a more extreme case the funds for it might have been diverted  to do something else.

You may donate, with all your best intentions, X amount of money to SLU's (or anyone else's) building campaign. You really like the project and think the plans are great. When the time comes to build that project, what is actually built may be vastly different than the original plans. Look at what the plans were for the new law school building campaign and what actually happened. The moral of the story is that once you donate your money it is not yours any more. The school will do with this money whatever is deemed best for the school. Internal budgetary politics play a major part in whatever it is that is actually built.  

[willie]

24 minutes ago, Old guy said:

There are issues that happen frequently during construction of major projects like cost overruns and unforeseen difficulties with whatever it may be, from site to permits. Delays and higher costs of construction, as well as modifications of the  plans to fit the available budget are common. Sometimes the projects are abandoned or re-purposed. Now ask yourselves, what do you think would have happened to our arena without Chaifetz's contribution? 

Biondi, by nature, was a grandiose man who thought in grandiose terms. Many of the goals set by such men are never achieved. He was planning an arena with 12K seating with a budget that, without  Chaifetz's contribution, might have seated 5K (not counting the cost overruns due to having to modify the project). Our current arena is smaller than what was originally planned. Without Chaifetz's contribution and push it could well have been a lot smaller than what it is now, or in a more extreme case the funds for it might have been diverted  to do something else.

You may donate, with all your best intentions, X amount of money to SLU's (or anyone else's) building campaign. You really like the project and think the plans are great. When the time comes to build that project, what is actually built may be vastly different than the original plans. Look at what the plans were for the new law school building campaign and what actually happened. The moral of the story is that once you donate your money it is not yours any more. The school will do with this money whatever is deemed best for the school. Internal budgetary politics play a major part in whatever it is that is actually built.  

Old Guy your timing is incorrect. The arena was completed in April of 2008. Chaifetz was  given naming rights Feb 28th 2007. The arena was being built. I am not trying to disparage the good Doc and I am glad he's here but the arena was being built with or without him. 

[Old guy]

 You are probably correct, the question then becomes where would the SLU endowment be without the money provided by Chaifetz?

[billiken_roy]

37 minutes ago, Old guy said:

 You are probably correct, the question then becomes where would the SLU endowment be without the money provided by Chaifetz?

$1 billion minus $6 million?  you need to give this one up old guy.  

[TFord and TRavs]

I’m sure ford has brought far more money into the program than crews. The inside of chaifetz looks far more modern than it did 4 years ago

[Basketbill]

9 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

$1 billion minus $6 million?  you need to give this one up old guy.  

Actually need to subtract 12 million and then subtract another 15 for his donation this year

“Saint Louis University announced today that its new 10,600-seat multipurpose Arena will be named in honor of University alumnus Dr. Richard A. Chaifetz (SHAY-fetz), who has made a $12 million naming rights gift to the Arena. The Chaifetz Arena will open in March 2008 and will be home to Billiken men's and women's basketball and a host of other events.”

 

[billikenfan05]

2 minutes ago, TFord and TRavs said:

I’m sure ford has brought far more money into the program than crews. The inside of chaifetz looks far more modern than it did 4 years ago

Hot take alert

[TheOne]

15 hours ago, willie said:

Biondi promised a top 50 program 30 years ago but was unwilling to raise the money until the Doisey research center was funded. Chaifetz was very much a late comer to the arena. He put the fundraising over the top but was far from the instigator of the arena. I believe the arena was supposed to cost 50 million. What was Doc’s contribution? 6 mil. Thanks to a Doc for all he does but let’s not make him out to be T Boone Pickens. 

Didn’t Chaifetz do $12m for the arena?  Not including the $15m he recently did for the Business school to bring total giving to $27m?

 

13 hours ago, Old guy said:

Willie, who among SLU's big donors is closer to T Bone Pickens than Chaifetz?

I’m not sure of Picken’s involvement, but I would assume Chaifetz is more active than Pickens - attending home games, traveling with the team, etc.

[billiken_roy]

6 minutes ago, Basketbill said:

Actually need to subtract 12 million and then subtract another 15 for his donation this year

“Saint Louis University announced today that its new 10,600-seat multipurpose Arena will be named in honor of University alumnus Dr. Richard A. Chaifetz (SHAY-fetz), who has made a $12 million naming rights gift to the Arena. The Chaifetz Arena will open in March 2008 and will be home to Billiken men's and women's basketball and a host of other events.”

 

compared to the overall slu endowment fund that still is not an impact.   

 

and compared to the total cost of the arena and the fact the arena was already in construction progress, as willie detailed, getting dr chaifetz's donation did not build the arena.   make the financial future of chaifetz a little easier, but the arena was going up regardless.  

[JMM28]

I am sure SLU built the arena knowing that they had some significant money in the pipeline for big money donations when it broke ground. Chaifetz just didn't fall from the sky one day. They had been working it. After years of broken promises on the arena (as a freshman in 2002 we were going to be the first class to graduate in what would become Chaifetz Arena, I believe the class before us and before us were told the same), I am sure a lot of donors were more than happy to wait for actual progress.

 

[Slu let the dogs out?]

37 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I am sure SLU built the arena knowing that they had some significant money in the pipeline for big money donations when it broke ground. Chaifetz just didn't fall from the sky one day. They had been working it. After years of broken promises on the arena (as a freshman in 2002 we were going to be the first class to graduate in what would become Chaifetz Arena, I believe the class before us and before us were told the same), I am sure a lot of donors were more than happy to wait for actual progress.

 

Right, you don't just break ground on a large scale project with a $12M gap in your financing. Or maybe that's exactly how they do it at universities? I'm pretty ignorant on the financing of Chaifetz but were there any outside sources (besides Dr. C's $ and the TIFs of course  ) ?

[willie]

39 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I am sure SLU built the arena knowing that they had some significant money in the pipeline for big money donations when it broke ground. Chaifetz just didn't fall from the sky one day. They had been working it. After years of broken promises on the arena (as a freshman in 2002 we were going to be the first class to graduate in what would become Chaifetz Arena, I believe the class before us and before us were told the same), I am sure a lot of donors were more than happy to wait for actual progress.

 

Actually if I remember the story correctly he did just kind of fall in from the sky. As I stated before once the Doisey Research center was funded Biondi committed to the arena. Chaefetz wanted to give back to the U. Biondi then said I need some money for my arena. The rest is history. 

[willie]

54 minutes ago, TheOne said:

Didn’t Chaifetz do $12m for the arena?  Not including the $15m he recently did for the Business school to bring total giving to $27m?

 

I’m not sure of Picken’s involvement, but I would assume Chaifetz is more active than Pickens - attending home games, traveling with the team, etc.

Pickens  was very involved at least early on. Funny story: Pickens was the head of the Okie athletic booster club. He and friends gave multi millions of dollars to the club. They took the money and bought life insurance on themselves naming the club as beneficiary. The problem was no one died and they ran out of money to pay the elevated premiums as they aged. I believe it was 60 minutes who did a report on this. All in all he gave well over 100 million to Oklahoma State. 

[Old guy]

OK guys, when you have a major project and not enough cash to finance it, you borrow, or take the money out of the endowment to  pay for the project. We all know 2007 was not a good time to  borrow large amounts of money. The credit markets and interest rates sank in 2008 to unheard of levels and have not fully recovered yet. However debt assumed in 2007, unless it was refinanced successfully later on, stayed at the same interest rate level (not true if it was borrowed in a variable rate type of deal). As far as the endowment goes, whatever it was at in 2007 you can be certain that it went lower in 2008 and 2009. It is a major triumph for SLU to have a billion dollar endowment. 

I want to point out that endowments of hundreds of millions of dollars or billions of dollars may appear inexhaustible. Not so by a long shot. It all depends on how large an institution you are and how much money you spend.

Harvard for example appears to have inexhaustible funds at its disposal. Harvard has the largest University endowment in the US at $ 36.7 B, and it collects around $ 5+ B in their fund drives. Of course the endowment is invested and yields profits. It should be evident that Harvard operates in a very different financial league than SLU does. You may think that with this kind of money and donors like these, Harvard has no financial problems. Nope, under the Faust administration, which ends this year, Harvard regularly spent all the money collected in their fund drives, plus all the profits made by the endowment, plus had to dip into the endowment principal at the tune of a few hundred million a year to pay expenses. Harvard operates at a deficit and can continue to do so for a long time. SLU on the other hand cannot afford to operate at such a deficit. 

It really does not matter how much money you have in the endowment. What matters is how much money you spend, this includes payments for all kinds of debt you have incurred. Central to the spending issue are the goals the administration has for the University. If SLU wants to  improve both the academic standing of the University and grow their endowment, something has to  give. SLU may be able to operate with a modest deficit but cannot allow the deficit to grow out of control.

[Old guy]

Pickens, the Hunts, and all kinds of other very rich people may believe their money is inexhaustible but it really is not. No one can predict the future. Pickens found this out eventually, apparently things did not work for him as he thought they would.

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Right, you don't just break ground on a large scale project with a $12M gap in your financing. Or maybe that's exactly how they do it at universities? I'm pretty ignorant on the financing of Chaifetz but were there any outside sources (besides Dr. C's $ and the TIFs of course  ) ?

I think the original plan was to make up most of the gap through the sale of arena naming rights if a donor hadn't emerged.