Maybe one day we can get where Loyola has gotten

[JMM28]

10 minutes ago, ACE said:

What I want is sustained success, which is elusive for most programs. I'm much more interested in the two plus decades of continuous success of Xavier and Gonzaga than I am in what may just be "one shining moment."

We could have had that if there were any sort of succession plan after Majerus. Unfortunately May lacked any sort of foresight and we wound up with a tired guy who had to be convinced to even take a job under Majerus. That is one of May's largest leadership failures, in my opinion, among many major failures. 

[ACE]

2 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

We could have had that if there were any sort of succession plan after Majerus. Unfortunately May lacked any sort of foresight and we wound up with a tired guy who had to be convinced to even take a job under Majerus. That is one of May's largest leadership failures, in my opinion, among many major failures. 

No disagreement from me. 

[Spoon-Balls]

11 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

We could have had that if there were any sort of succession plan after Majerus. Unfortunately May lacked any sort of foresight and we wound up with a tired guy who had to be convinced to even take a job under Majerus. That is one of May's largest leadership failures, in my opinion, among many major failures. 

The easy excuse at the time was that "it would have looked bad to not give Crews an extension" after his two years of success. That attitude was precisely the problem with how Chris May bungled the whole thing. He didn't have the balls to say, "Thank you for your service, Jim Crews, but we're moving on." Instead Crews gets a 5 year contract. In my opinion, May still doesn't get enough blame for the catastrophe of SLU basketball 2014-2016. Most universities would have fired their AD's after something of the sort. 

[brianstl]

28 minutes ago, ACE said:

I would be on board if the title read - Maybe one day we can be Gonzaga or Xavier.

I'm rooting for Porter and have over the years stopped and watched a bit of his teams when I run across them on the tv. It's great what he has done this year, but until he strings a few NCAA appearances together, it will just be viewed as another cute "Cinderella" story. They were a number #11 seed and may not have even gotten in without winning their conference tournament. Fortunately, they have been able to pull out a couple of buzzer beaters in the Dance this year. But if this is where the ride ends for Loyola and they are out of the Tourney the next couple of years, I'd prefer our three-year run - three at-large bids (#9 seed, #4 seed and #5 seed) plus breaking the Top 25 rankings in some of those years and winning a Tourney game each of those years. It's more legit than a Cinderella story.

What I want is sustained success, which is elusive for most programs. I'm much more interested in the two plus decades of continuous success of Xavier and Gonzaga than I am in what may just be "one shining moment."

Of course I would rather be Gonzaga or X.  That said, I think I would trade the three year tournament run for a single Sweet 16 run.  

 

[Cowboy]

10 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Of course I would rather be Gonzaga or X.  That said, I think I would trade the three year tournament run for a single Sweet 16 run.  

 

-this is interesting, I've never thought of it in these terms until now, there are benefits to both, pretty even to me in a quick analysis but since luck and match-ups have so much to do with advancing, I might lean to 3 year run

[billiken_roy]

32 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

We could have had that if there were any sort of succession plan after Majerus. Unfortunately May lacked any sort of foresight and we wound up with a tired guy who had to be convinced to even take a job under Majerus. That is one of May's largest leadership failures, in my opinion, among many major failures. 

you think rickma would have allowed anyone to set up a succession plan for himself that he didnt approve?   crews was his succession plan.   he was the man hand selected to serve as the interim coach when rickma got sick by rickma himself.  unfortunately the team was so well prepared by rickma (who was indeed a basketball genius) that crews couldnt fail with that team.   my 89 year old mother could have coached that team and won.   then we were pretty much stuck with crews from that point.  

[slu72]

May could have brought back Moser after that year of Dead's being the interim coach. Moser did help recruit a lot of those players for Rick. The problem was in the fall of 2012 Moser didn't have much of a winning resume. Yes, Dead winning the COY made it a tough call, but AD's have to make tough calls to keep their jobs. Does anyone really thing May's the driving force in our hoops program these days? Seems to me it's more in Dr. C's hands than Mays.  

As for Moser's future at Loyola, you have to wonder if he might draw attention from some of the P5's looking for a HC. He still may not have the body of work they're looking for but if Loyola follows this up w/ another good year, I could see him becoming a hot property after next season.

[billiken_roy]

4 minutes ago, slu72 said:

May could have brought back Moser after that year of Dead's being the interim coach. Moser did help recruit a lot of those players for Rick. The problem was in the fall of 2012 Moser didn't have much of a winning resume. Yes, Dead winning the COY made it a tough call, but AD's have to make tough calls to keep their jobs. Does anyone really thing May's the driving force in our hoops program these days? Seems to me it's more in Dr. C's hands than Mays.  

As for Moser's future at Loyola, you have to wonder if he might draw attention from some of the P5's looking for a HC. He still may not have the body of work they're looking for but if Loyola follows this up w/ another good year, I could see him becoming a hot property after next season.

the problem with everyone in hindsight now saying may should have axed crews at the end of the interim season, there were very few of us crews haters making that request.   most people were under the spell of that great emotional season and were all about giving crews the chance.   the real time to overrule the crews "promotion" was at the very beginning and not have even allowed him to serve as interim.   

[wgstl]

Im just joining in, and didnt read any post.  Just answering off of title. 

 

I dont care about being Loyola.  What they did is cool, but if your trying to be a team that makes one run every 20-30 years thats not good.  Slu has been to the round of 32 three times in the last 6 years, one of those without a stable head coach. 

 

The worst part about being a slu fan, if knowing how close SLU is to breaking through and being at the big boys table.  Every resource a program would ever need SLU has, expect one little thing, the help from the university itself. 

[cheeseman]

25 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

The easy excuse at the time was that "it would have looked bad to not give Crews an extension" after his two years of success. That attitude was precisely the problem with how Chris May bungled the whole thing. He didn't have the balls to say, "Thank you for your service, Jim Crews, but we're moving on." Instead Crews gets a 5 year contract. In my opinion, May still doesn't get enough blame for the catastrophe of SLU basketball 2014-2016. Most universities would have fired their AD's after something of the sort. 

I was one who did not want to hire Crews - I thought the above position was just stupid.  I have come to think that maybe Crews hiring was Biondi's idea.  He knew he could get Crews cheap and was never crazy about paying RM all that money and living up to the promises he had made regarding the program to RM.  During the 2 years Crews got to the Dance, Biondi came to think that hey I can go cheap and still get to the Dance - wrong!  This had always been his way of thinking and he never learned that he was just not right.  I am not sure we should be putting all the blame on May - after all, once Biondi lost power what happened, he fired Crews and got the money from donors to pay Crews off along with getting the money to hire Ford. One of the problems with Biondi being around was that he controlled the money raising from boosters to the point that the AD had to get permission to do so and if Biondi had some other pet project he wanted to do then the answer was no because he wanted to tap those donors for his thing.

[WUH]

20 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

One of the problems with Biondi being around was that he controlled the money raising from boosters to the point that the AD had to get permission to do so and if Biondi had some other pet project he wanted to do then the answer was no because he wanted to tap those donors for his thing.

This is the norm not the exception.

[RiseAndGrind]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

Of course I would rather be Gonzaga or X.  That said, I think I would trade the three year tournament run for a single Sweet 16 run.  

 

No way 

[JMM28]

46 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

you think rickma would have allowed anyone to set up a succession plan for himself that he didnt approve?   crews was his succession plan.   he was the man hand selected to serve as the interim coach when rickma got sick by rickma himself.  unfortunately the team was so well prepared by rickma (who was indeed a basketball genius) that crews couldnt fail with that team.   my 89 year old mother could have coached that team and won.   then we were pretty much stuck with crews from that point.  

I don’t think Rick would have liked/embraced it. But...do it. The guy had a life threatening condition that was known about the day he was hired. 

[Taj79]

I too thought the hiring of Crews was a mistake, but kind of sort of understood where the school was coming from.  If that was Bionid, so be it, it sounds like one of his "do it on the cheap" schemes he might have been in favor of.  But I really don't know.  The national pundits were all over the "Hire Jim Crews" movement.  Guided team through tough times ... blah, blah, blah ...... came out of fired/retirement to help a friend ... blah,blah blah ...... guided team to best finish ever ...... blah, blah, blah.  But no one really knew how poorly he would do when he had to recompete roster and recruit on hi sown without the benefit of Majerus' foot soldiers. 

This has always been the problem with the school IMO .. not understanding the depth of a certain level of commitment.  Does Chris May know what that is?  I don't know.  I think the SLU Athletic Department as a whole is hamstrung by restrictions placed from on high.  And I don't know that either, just saying.  The history is not good .... from Jim Bakken to Ron Ekker to Tony Yates to Doug Woolard to Cheryl Levrick to now Chris May. I won't say I'm impressed despite breaking bread with some of the more recent ones.   I guess advancement came to Debbi eYow, Woolard, and Levrick -- Levrick after she bolted from the Biondi/Majerus hire. 

I don't know how one can easily say "Chris may didn't have the balls."  Maybe he didn't.  I just have wonder if any of us could have pulled that trigger when the time came.  Just don't know.  But many privately said Crews was not it.  I'll give all credit to cheese if need be.  Still, hindsight is 20/20.  For all of May's supposed failure with Crews, did he redeem some of that with Ford?  Could any o fus pulled the Crews trigger back then?

[Spoon-Balls]

46 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I was one who did not want to hire Crews - I thought the above position was just stupid.  I have come to think that maybe Crews hiring was Biondi's idea.  He knew he could get Crews cheap and was never crazy about paying RM all that money and living up to the promises he had made regarding the program to RM.  During the 2 years Crews got to the Dance, Biondi came to think that hey I can go cheap and still get to the Dance - wrong!  This had always been his way of thinking and he never learned that he was just not right.  I am not sure we should be putting all the blame on May - after all, once Biondi lost power what happened, he fired Crews and got the money from donors to pay Crews off along with getting the money to hire Ford. One of the problems with Biondi being around was that he controlled the money raising from boosters to the point that the AD had to get permission to do so and if Biondi had some other pet project he wanted to do then the answer was no because he wanted to tap those donors for his thing.

I do agree that Biondi was a large part of the problem (especially with his control of his beloved old money donors), but I just think that May shouldn't just be taken as nothing more than a "yes man"  who's simply in his position to serve as a placeholder. If that were the case then why even have an athletic director? The key is to have a person with a longterm vision who isn't afraid to present tough decisions and ideas to the BoT. May just isn't that person. I honestly just don't know that he could handle the responsibilities that come with being in a conference like the Big East...

Maybe I'm out of line, but it just seems to me that May has gotten a free pass on a myriad of major failures over the past 10 years. Most of the "successes" were not really his doing, but were primarily the result of efforts from Doc C. 

[Taj79]

By the way, I was searching for a list of SLU Athletic Directors when it bounced me to UMSL.  Is their athletic director our former compliance lady ------- Lori Flanagan (or whatever she was here)?

[billikenblue]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

you think rickma would have allowed anyone to set up a succession plan for himself that he didnt approve?   crews was his succession plan.   he was the man hand selected to serve as the interim coach when rickma got sick by rickma himself.  unfortunately the team was so well prepared by rickma (who was indeed a basketball genius) that crews couldnt fail with that team.   my 89 year old mother could have coached that team and won.   then we were pretty much stuck with crews from that point.  

Rick did not bring in Crews as his replacement. He actually did him a favor as he felt bad he had been fired from Army and over the years they had developed a relationship having dinner together and Rick saw him as a good guy . Alex Jensen was Rick's pick but they had a falling out right before Rick's health took a turn for the worse. To the Crews debacle May was told by many people including chaifetz crews can't and won't recruit the right players and we should look elsewhere. The only 20/20 is that May blew it by not doing the right thing and making the easy choice for him.

[Pistol]

14 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

By the way, I was searching for a list of SLU Athletic Directors when it bounced me to UMSL.  Is their athletic director our former compliance lady ------- Lori Flanagan (or whatever she was here)?

Yes. Former associate AD. She's the worst.

[billiken_roy]

19 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

I do agree that Biondi was a large part of the problem (especially with his control of his beloved old money donors), but I just think that May shouldn't just be taken as nothing more than a "yes man"  who's simply in his position to serve as a placeholder. If that were the case then why even have an athletic director? The key is to have a person with a longterm vision who isn't afraid to present tough decisions and ideas to the BoT. May just isn't that person. I honestly just don't know that he could handle the responsibilities that come with being in a conference like the Big East...

Maybe I'm out of line, but it just seems to me that May has gotten a free pass on a myriad of major failures over the past 10 years. Most of the "successes" were not really his doing, but were primarily the result of efforts from Doc C. 

you mean that same BoT that totally allowed S2 to get out of control?  yeah that was going to happen   They have such a great history of supporting Billiken Athletics.  

[billiken_roy]

5 minutes ago, billikenblue said:

Rick did not bring in Crews as his replacement. He actually did him a favor as he felt bad he had been fired from Army and over the years they had developed a relationship having dinner together and Rick saw him as a good guy . Alex Jensen was Rick's pick but they had a falling out right before Rick's health took a turn for the worse. To the Crews debacle May was told by many people including chaifetz crews can't and won't recruit the right players and we should look elsewhere. The only 20/20 is that May blew it by not doing the right thing and making the easy choice for him.

i agree he wasnt originally brought in, but at the time of rickma's illness it was his only choice.   crews was indeed hand picked by rickma to be his interim.  

[Taj79]

Anybody following the interest UMBC garnered due to their UVa upset?  Twitter hits out the roof.  School gear sales need 24/7 attention.  Potential student interest/applications on the rise?  A move to patent and copyright their "Retriever" trademark.  Run that by Freddy and the BoT gang when discussing visibility achieved by an athletic program. 

[willie]

Sure seems like a lot of revisionist history going on here. I seem to remember this board wondering why May was taking so long in offering the job to Crews. How do you not hire the NCAA coach of the year? 

[cheeseman]

56 minutes ago, WUH said:

This is the norm not the exception.

You misunderstood - my point was that Biondi would not let anybody raise money unless it was his project and he had little interest in athletics generally speaking.

[cheeseman]

35 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

I do agree that Biondi was a large part of the problem (especially with his control of his beloved old money donors), but I just think that May shouldn't just be taken as nothing more than a "yes man"  who's simply in his position to serve as a placeholder. If that were the case then why even have an athletic director? The key is to have a person with a longterm vision who isn't afraid to present tough decisions and ideas to the BoT. May just isn't that person. I honestly just don't know that he could handle the responsibilities that come with being in a conference like the Big East...

Maybe I'm out of line, but it just seems to me that May has gotten a free pass on a myriad of major failures over the past 10 years. Most of the "successes" were not really his doing, but were primarily the result of efforts from Doc C. 

You have a very limited view of the history in this matter.  Dr. C did not show up and say I want this or that and everybody jumped.  He is the supporter of the things he likes that they bring up to him.  If they went to him and said we want to hire Ford what do you think and can you help financially he will either say yea or nay.  He did not call up May or Dr. P and say I want to hire Ford and nobody else.  May raised the money for the locker room because Dr. P said OK even though he was in the midst of a big fundraising effort for the school.  Biondi would have told May forget it not until I get my money then we can maybe talk.  May was a yes man under Biondi and that was the only way to survive.  Look at what happened to Levick.

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, willie said:

Sure seems like a lot of revisionist history going on here. I seem to remember this board wondering why May was taking so long in offering the job to Crews. How do you not hire the NCAA coach of the year? 

i agree willie.   and by the time the season ended i had reluctantly joined that crowd.   but initially, i was all about resisting crews as the coach.   but once the season was the great success it turned out to be, there was no way anyone was going to stand up to hiring crews imo.   we had to hire him.