Coaching movement that might affect SLU

[Franchise_08]

There is nothing to see here. UMC is a joke. Boone County is a joke. Stock has plummeted. 

[HoosierPal]

Amazingly Washington announced Romar is returning. One less candidate for Mizzou  

Matta returning to The OSU. Does that mean Archie stays at Dayton?  

 

[billikenfan05]

21 minutes ago, kshoe said:

+1.

Seems like most of the Ford isn't happy here chatter is coming from Billikenfan05. He's obviously got some beef going with the Athletic Department and I sure hope its more than just them messing up his ticket request, but this junk he keeps posting doesn't do any good and only feeds on the narrative that the MU's and Illinois of the world want recruits to believe.

1. I'm not making sh1t up. And it's certainly not junk. 

2. My "beef" with the athletic department has nothing to do with Ford being happy or unhappy at SLU.

3. I never said Ford was leaving this year. He has nowhere to go...

[Glorydays2013]

Well I guess I don't really know Ford or his ambitions but these things are a fact.

Ford has something to prove.

Saint Louis area has some of the top recruits in the nation.

Ford is a recruiter. 

These things go together like Toasted Ravs and Marinara. Ford will have to spend 5+ years to build something to go elsewhere and guess what, if he has done a good enough job in 5 years to leave to a program like Kentucky, well you better bet that we have been doing spectacularly and would be a target for other top coaches. 

Also SLU has the money to build this athletic department up significantly, they just need smarter people in charge of finances. 

 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, ACE said:

Stop dealing with "mights" on this topic. Since Ford started killing it on the recruiting trail, SPUMAC and Illinois who are bitter about his success, are already floating out the "he won't be around here long" narrative... we don't need our own fans repeating this nonsense. Ford has been on the job for less than a year. Chill out. Is this his dream job? Probably not, but so what. I'm sure it would be Kentucky and he would likely have a few others that he would love to have, but that's not to say Ford can't have a long and successful run here. With the staff he has put together and the recruiting success that he has had in a short period of time, there is no reason he can't string together multiple NCAA runs here. 

At this point most Power 5 programs will view him as a "retread." It will likely be a while before he gets an offer he can't refuse. I think there is enough opportunity/challenge with this job to build a Gonzaga/Xavier type program that it should keep him energized for a while. 

Good points - he really hasn't accomplished anything yet on the bottom line.  Yes he has turned the roster around quickly but do we really know if they will be that good? - we all hope but lots of good recruiting class don't pan out.  I have high hopes but if you are a power 5 school do you really think that Ford has done enough to wash the stink of OKS off yet - probably not.  I agree he will not retire from here but he isn't going anywhere just yet.

[Glorydays2013]

4 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Good points - he really hasn't accomplished anything yet on the bottom line.  Yes he has turned the roster around quickly but do we really know if they will be that good? - we all hope but lots of good recruiting class don't pan out.  I have high hopes but if you are a power 5 school do you really think that Ford has done enough to wash the stink of OKS off yet - probably not.  I agree he will not retire from here but he isn't going anywhere just yet.

Maybe this is why I am not a basketball coach since I don't understand, but why not make your own legacy at a school instead of trying to follow an older one (Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas). To me, you're expected to be a top 15 team year after year and is just expected, anything short of that is a disappointment. Why can't Ford be his own McDermott like at Creighton?

[billikenfan05]

32 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Well I guess I don't really know Ford or his ambitions but these things are a fact.

 

Also SLU has the money to build this athletic department up significantly, they just need smarter people in charge of finances. 

 

Where are you getting the idea that SLU has all this extra money? 

[Glorydays2013]

5 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Where are you getting the idea that SLU has all this extra money? 

We have a 1 billion endowment. Yes I know that it is complicated, but that is not chump change. Schools of similar size have about half that. 

[CBFan]

26 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Maybe this is why I am not a basketball coach since I don't understand, but why not make your own legacy at a school instead of trying to follow an older one (Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas). To me, you're expected to be a top 15 team year after year and is just expected, anything short of that is a disappointment. Why can't Ford be his own McDermott like at Creighton?

Are you saying McDermott did not follow a coach that had success with Creighton Basketball?

If you are saying that I can help you, Dana Altman's record with Creighton is 327-176 in 16 years as a coach.

I am sure Creighton had high expectations for their next coach when Altman went to Oregon.

SLU on the other hand is different and if coach Ford could win like Altman in 16 years at Creighton then he would have his own.

[johnbj14]

5 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

We have a 1 billion endowment. Yes I know that it is complicated, but that is not chump change. Schools of similar size have about half that. 

From my limited understanding of the endowment, a good portion of it is tied up in illiquid assets. 

[Bobby Metzinger]

2 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

We have a 1 billion endowment. Yes I know that it is complicated, but that is not chump change. Schools of similar size have about half that. 

I'm not an expert on endowments, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but a very very small sliver of that endowment would go to athletics. In fact, to counter this, many of the top NCAA programs have established "athletic endowments" that provide scholarships, etc. Many of these schools established "endowments" in the wake of the SMU Death Penalty, which enabled these programs to legitimize and be accountable for athletic revenue spent recruiting and retaining top-flight athletes.

[Glorydays2013]

9 minutes ago, CBFan said:

SLU on the other hand is different and if coach Ford could win like Altman in 16 years at Creighton then he would have his own.

I guess I mean that it doesn't seem like McDermott is trying to build a resume and leave. I think Ford has a unique opportunity to create a legacy at SLU rather than chase one somewhere else 

[Bobby Metzinger]

10 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Are you saying McDermott did not follow a coach that had success with Creighton Basketball?

If you are saying that I can help you, Dana Altman's record with Creighton is 327-176 in 16 years as a coach.

I am sure Creighton had high expectations for their next coach when Altman went to Oregon.

SLU on the other hand is different and if coach Ford could win like Altman in 16 years at Creighton then he would have his own.

Mark Few is the better analogy.

[Glorydays2013]

1 hour ago, CBFan said:

I am sure Creighton had high expectations for their next coach when Altman went to Oregon.

Ford wasn't replacing Jim Crews. Ford was replacing Rick M. 

[prebilliken]

16 hours ago, slu72 fan said:

How about you being the scapegoat today, I'll be tomorrow, someone else on Wednesday. 

Im curious, you complain nonstop about every facet of the athletic department, you're a big fan. What's the deal, CM turn you down for a job or JO mistreat you during one of your immature performances at a game?

The athletic department needs all the help it can get. Join the Billiken Club, donate some money, go to the golf tournament. Do something positive. 

So if I'm a bi-annually donating alumnus who has never applied for a job in the AD I can blame Chris May?

Ok, good. I will. 

[brianstl]

McDermott isn't a bad analogy.  McDermott left the MVC for the Big 12.  It didn't work out for him in the Big 12 and he returned to the MVC.  Ford left the A10 for the Big 12.  It didn't work out for him and he returned to the A10.  Travis had more success in the Big 12, but McDermott had more success prior to taking the Big 12 job.

[slu72 fan]

33 minutes ago, prebilliken said:

So if I'm a bi-annually donating alumnus who has never applied for a job in the AD I can blame Chris May?

Ok, good. I will. 

Awesome, the Athletic Department needs all the contributors it can get. More money will solve some of the issues. 

 

[3star_recruit]

Agree that McDermott is a good analogy. We've reached a point where coaches can make make millions of dollars coaching in high mid-major programs. If Ford makes the Dance 5 times in a decade, that makes him the most succesful coach in Billiken history. If he does that at say, NC State, that gets him fired.

[CBFan]

Brian in the context of how you are comparing Coach Ford and McDermott then yes it works.

In the context of McDermott building a winning legacy at Creighton when Dana Altman already did was my point.

Bobby Metzinger has the best comparison of someone that built his own and that is Gonzaga.

I am hoping with Glorydays that Coach Ford stays for a long time and builds a winning tradition at SLU that will be his.

I believe that St. Louis is a good place and if men's basketball is in the NCAA tournament every year that coach Ford can be paid a competitive salary that the BCS conference schools can offer.

[brianstl]

18 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Brian in the context of how you are comparing Coach Ford and McDermott then yes it works.

In the context of McDermott building a winning legacy at Creighton when Dana Altman already did was my point.

Bobby Metzinger has the best comparison of someone that built his own and that is Gonzaga.

I am hoping with Glorydays that Coach Ford stays for a long time and builds a winning tradition at SLU that will be his.

I believe that St. Louis is a good place and if men's basketball is in the NCAA tournament every year that coach Ford can be paid a competitive salary that the BCS conference schools can offer.

Few didn't actually build Gonzaga.  Dan Fitzgerald and Don Monson built Gonzaga.  Few took over Gonzaga the year after Monson took the Zags to the Elite Eight.

[gobillsgo]

1 hour ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Ford wasn't replacing Jim Crews. Ford was replacing Rick M. 

Huh? Gillmann and Neufeld on the roster would seem to indicate that he was indeed replacing Crews. 

[Glorydays2013]

3 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Huh? Gillmann and Neufeld on the roster would seem to indicate that he was indeed replacing Crews. 

 I view Crews as an interim coach while we were waiting for something better. Ford wasn't looking at SLU as a program under Crews, rather one started back up by Rick M. 

[ACE]

12 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Few didn't actually build Gonzaga.  Dan Fitzgerald and Don Monson built Gonzaga.  Few took over Gonzaga the year after Monson took the Zags to the Elite Eight.

It's hard to say Fitzgerald built Gonzaga. He only made one NCAA Tourney trip in 15 years. Monson was only their for 2 years. First year was NIT, second was the Elite 8 and then he bolted. We'll never know if Monson would have been able to sustain that success, but Few certainly came in at a good time and took the program to another level of consistency. Really remarkable what Few has been able to do for so long. Monson's one NCAA Tourney trip would have just been a blip if Few hadn't taken the program to another level.

[gobillsgo]

5 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

 I view Crews as an interim coach while we were waiting for something better. Ford wasn't looking at SLU as a program under Crews, rather one started back up by Rick M. 

Hmm nah I don't buy that. Rick showed the program's potential, but the program had the stink of CrewsPlatt all over it when Ford took over. Wasn't just interim. It was Crews' program at that point. 

[cgeldmacher]

16 hours ago, bonwich said:

I think something that was said often on this board needs to be repeated: May was not hired to be a leader. No one that Biondi hired was meant to be a leader. There Can Be Only One. 

And I think if you look closely, Biondi is also almost solely responsible for the state of the athletic department. He grossly underestimated what a "Top 40" program really entailed. He found his angel in Dr. Chaifetz, but he didn't figure out how to raise enough to take care of all the nitty gritty, like, um, marketing. Not to mention he was willing to spend millions on a dream coach, but then to nickel and dime on things like charter flights. And like a whole lot of stuff that happens in St. Louis in general, he went for the big ticket and the quick fix without making sure the foundation was in place for the long term. 

My limited interactions with May lead me to believe he's an administrator, and a consensus-builder -- but in no possible way a risk-taker. And I've I said before, I don't think we have a clear idea of where Dr. Pestello puts athletics in the overall pecking order. 

Finally, regarding the budget issues: They're certainly not unique to SLU, and they won't be anywhere near solved even if Biondi re-ropes some of the locals and then corrals more overseas money. (BTW I know several potential high-ticket donors who swore they'd never give the U any money as long as Biondi was still in charge.)

I'm confused.  You say several donors swore they wouldn't give while Biondi was in charge.  I've also heard that one of the big problems with the financial situation right now is that donations are way down since Biondi left and Pestello took over and that they are bringing Biondi back to get the donors back that bailed.  Maybe the donors you are referring to all graduated with social work degrees (meaning not really donors at all).

Didn't Biondi get run out of town by the faculty, staff, and students because he was trying to institute tenure rules that would keep costs down?  So, Biondi wants to put measures in place to keep control over costs, he gets chased, we get Pestello, and a few years later we have a financial crisis.  It's been a long time since I graduated from the Business School, but I think the facts add up pretty well.

Now, your trying to twist those facts to make it sound like donors swearing off Biondi was the problem.  If that was the case, then we should have seen rise in donations in recent years.  I don't think that is what happened.