slufan13 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 How do we feel about bringing in transfers to maybe fill out a roster spot or two if we can't fill them with high school seniors that we feel will make an impact? I'm not talking about immediately eligible guys here either because we never get those guys. Are we willing be down a player or two next year if we think they could make an impact in 2016-17? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 We have the do something...#MOARRRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 How do we feel about bringing in transfers to maybe fill out a roster spot or two if we can't fill them with high school seniors that we feel will make an impact? I'm not talking about immediately eligible guys here either because we never get those guys. Are we willing be down a player or two next year if we think they could make an impact in 2016-17? It depends on how many scholarships are open this spring and the quality of the transfer available. I would definitely do it for a player who could make an impact in 2016-17 after sitting out a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 How do we feel about bringing in transfers to maybe fill out a roster spot or two if we can't fill them with high school seniors that we feel will make an impact? I'm not talking about immediately eligible guys here either because we never get those guys. Are we willing be down a player or two next year if we think they could make an impact in 2016-17? -it doesn't matter what we think but what the coach thinks -if you think he wants to roll the dice that he will be here in 16-17 then he might do that -as to the players I would think they would look at this season and wonder if they sat out and the season was bad would the staff remain -I HOPE there is more urgency to fixing our issues for 15-16, time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Question is how do we fix 15-16? Given what we know today, it's difficult to see that next year will only be marginally better. I'm sure players will improve over the summer, ie get stronger, work on weaknesses, etc. But being realistic improvement from FR to SO is marginal at best. It's rare to get a guy like we had in Vouyukas who made a quantum leap from his SO to JR year after he played a summer of Junior ball in Greece. And BC got a little better every year until he made the big leap his SR year. Look at last year's seniors; they all improved from their FR to SO year, but not to the extent they did from their SO to JR and SR years. It would seem the best we could hope for would be to land a couple of JUCO studs at PG and PF. But we all know how difficult that route has been for SLU. HS sleepers who have blossomed are still going to be FR, and any late blooming or spring signing 4 or 5 stars are not going to have SLU at the top of their list once the majors, who have holes to fill, come calling. Who knows, maybe we have our sights on a couple of foreigners. Would love to land a hidden gem like Fordham got from Germany and wonder why we can't. I wonder if JC has ever reached out to RL, CE, and BC for any help in recruiting kids from down under. Of course, there's a period of adjustment for those guys as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 True PG, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 How do we feel about bringing in transfers to maybe fill out a roster spot or two if we can't fill them with high school seniors that we feel will make an impact? I'm not talking about immediately eligible guys here either because we never get those guys. Are we willing be down a player or two next year if we think they could make an impact in 2016-17? Let's say 3 scholarships open up, one from each class (say Jolly, Tanner and McBroom for example). I think you probably do the following: - Leave one open or find an immediately eligible 5th year senior. You absolutely have to keep 2 scholarships available for the 2016 class. As you point out, we never seem to get the immediately eligible players so this is where Grandy could be in play (if all bridges haven't already been burned). If you'd rather leave it open than have Grandy again then so be it. - Get the best highschool freshman available. As many have pointed out, we need help everywhere so best available. PG is an obvious need and Center is another need but no impactful centers are going to be available at this point. - Get the best transfer available with a strong preference for one that just completed his freshmen season. He would eventually be a part of what would be a 3 man freshman class, making it a 4 man class. If you bring in a current sophomore, he eventually becomes a part of the existing freshmen class of 5, making 6 and we still have this class balance issue. If any additional scholarships open up from the freshmen or sophomore classes you need to get the best freshmen or juco players available and should focus on positional needs more at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Speaking of JUCOs, any scuttlebutt on whether SLU is seriously tracking any particular JUCO player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Let's say 3 scholarships open up, one from each class (say Jolly, Tanner and McBroom for example). I think you probably do the following: - Leave one open or find an immediately eligible 5th year senior. You absolutely have to keep 2 scholarships available for the 2016 class. As you point out, we never seem to get the immediately eligible players so this is where Grandy could be in play (if all bridges haven't already been burned). If you'd rather leave it open than have Grandy again then so be it. - Get the best highschool freshman available. As many have pointed out, we need help everywhere so best available. PG is an obvious need and Center is another need but no impactful centers are going to be available at this point. - Get the best transfer available with a strong preference for one that just completed his freshmen season. He would eventually be a part of what would be a 3 man freshman class, making it a 4 man class. If you bring in a current sophomore, he eventually becomes a part of the existing freshmen class of 5, making 6 and we still have this class balance issue. If any additional scholarships open up from the freshmen or sophomore classes you need to get the best freshmen or juco players available and should focus on positional needs more at that point. The at least 2 scholarships for 2016 is the most important thing to me. Yes you could only have one going into the year and it's probably likely that a frosh or soph next year would leave, but if you have Cook and Tatum wanting to commit in November, it'd be awfully awkward for the guys on the team if we only had one scholarship open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Question is how do we fix 15-16? Given what we know today, it's difficult to see that next year will only be marginally better. I'm sure players will improve over the summer, ie get stronger, work on weaknesses, etc. But being realistic improvement from FR to SO is marginal at best. It's rare to get a guy like we had in Vouyukas who made a quantum leap from his SO to JR year after he played a summer of Junior ball in Greece. And BC got a little better every year until he made the big leap his SR year. Look at last year's seniors; they all improved from their FR to SO year, but not to the extent they did from their SO to JR and SR years. Claggett made a huge jump between his freshman and sophomore years. Even Reed got quite a bit better his sophomore year, on everything but free throws. So did Mitchell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Claggett made a huge jump between his freshman and sophomore years. Even Reed got quite a bit better his sophomore year, on everything but free throws. So did Mitchell. I'm afraid the difference between those guys and our guys is the coach. That's not to say these guys can't make a huge jump. But I think it'll be harder for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 You don't worry about keeping an extra scholarship open for 2016. That will take care of itself by the time it rolls around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Ok, I do not reside in STL...but from an outsider's perspective...this message board looks to live in a complete dream world by seriously speculating that two locals the caliber of Tatum and Cook are going to play at SLU. I thought I remembered that Cook even made it known that he wanted to leave the area. We were just the last place team in the 8th(ish) best conference with an RPI of 280ish. We need to focus on system guys who can get the team back to the 17-18 win range. If we are concentrating on these 2 stars at the expense of pursuing 3 star recruits (or 2 stars that are a good fit), then that is a huge mistake IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 2016 local class is loaded with talent, not just Tatum and Cook. The key will be not to reach with the openings. If we can't land someone decent save them for 2016 even if we have to be a couple short next year. We're already bringing in at least one questionable talent next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 You don't worry about keeping an extra scholarship open for 2016. That will take care of itself by the time it rolls around. It only takes care of itself if we over subscribe on fall signings. To date, we have never done that. Otherwise you are limiting yourself to only one 2016 signing if one of the juniors leave and we fill that scholarship. Are you advocating over-subscribing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 It only takes care of itself if we over subscribe on fall signings. To date, we have never done that. Otherwise you are limiting yourself to only one 2016 signing if one of the juniors leave and we fill that scholarship. Are you advocating over-subscribing? Maybe. What I don't want to see is us passing on someone now who could help the program for a player you may or may not sign months from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 We're already bringing in at least one questionable talent next year. yup. is it too late to tell welmer... ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 2016 local class is loaded with talent, not just Tatum and Cook. The key will be not to reach with the openings. If we can't land someone decent save them for 2016 even if we have to be a couple short next year. We're already bringing in at least one questionable talent next year.Once you get past Xavier Sneed I question whether three of the next four best local kids (Brendon Gooch, Zeke Moore, Jordan Barnes) are physically ready to be more than 10 min a game guys their freshman year. They're all skinny kids, especially Gooch. Illinois class is weak, particularly at the point guard position. If we're going to find an impact player at that position in 2016, it's going to take a cross country search.If Tarkus Ferguson could blossom into a scorer over the next year, that would be ideal. He's the closest to being physically ready. But developing into a scorer with all that talent on Althoff's team is going to be tough. There's only one ball. If physical maturity was not an issue, I'd probably take Zeke Moore over any of them, including Sneed. I'm partial to kids who have to score a ton and hit the boards in order for their teams to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Claggett made a huge jump between his freshman and sophomore years. Even Reed got quite a bit better his sophomore year, on everything but free throws. So did Mitchell. Claggett was that good as a freshman he "sat" behind Julian Winfield and Grawer's son as the grand experiment failed as Winfield could not protect the ball and barely dribbled and apparently was promised the point guard spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The program is not in good enough shape to be taking on transfers. Any open scholarships need to go to guys who will contribute next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Question is how do we fix 15-16? Given what we know today, it's difficult to see that next year will only be marginally better. I'm sure players will improve over the summer, ie get stronger, work on weaknesses, etc. But being realistic improvement from FR to SO is marginal at best. It's rare to get a guy like we had in Vouyukas who made a quantum leap from his SO to JR year after he played a summer of Junior ball in Greece. And BC got a little better every year until he made the big leap his SR year. Look at last year's seniors; they all improved from their FR to SO year, but not to the extent they did from their SO to JR and SR years. It would seem the best we could hope for would be to land a couple of JUCO studs at PG and PF. But we all know how difficult that route has been for SLU. HS sleepers who have blossomed are still going to be FR, and any late blooming or spring signing 4 or 5 stars are not going to have SLU at the top of their list once the majors, who have holes to fill, come calling. Who knows, maybe we have our sights on a couple of foreigners. Would love to land a hidden gem like Fordham got from Germany and wonder why we can't. I wonder if JC has ever reached out to RL, CE, and BC for any help in recruiting kids from down under. Of course, there's a period of adjustment for those guys as well. As Joe Strauss implied on his column after the Richmond game, if this team is only "marginally" improved next season Crews will be out. Everything will be on the table for 16-17 if that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Let's say 3 scholarships open up, one from each class (say Jolly, Tanner and McBroom for example). I think you probably do the following: - Leave one open or find an immediately eligible 5th year senior. You absolutely have to keep 2 scholarships available for the 2016 class. As you point out, we never seem to get the immediately eligible players so this is where Grandy could be in play (if all bridges haven't already been burned). If you'd rather leave it open than have Grandy again then so be it. - Get the best highschool freshman available. As many have pointed out, we need help everywhere so best available. PG is an obvious need and Center is another need but no impactful centers are going to be available at this point. - Get the best transfer available with a strong preference for one that just completed his freshmen season. He would eventually be a part of what would be a 3 man freshman class, making it a 4 man class. If you bring in a current sophomore, he eventually becomes a part of the existing freshmen class of 5, making 6 and we still have this class balance issue. If any additional scholarships open up from the freshmen or sophomore classes you need to get the best freshmen or juco players available and should focus on positional needs more at that point. Really?? Fat chance of all of that happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Really?? Fat chance of all of that happening What don't you think will happen? We WILL have transfers. We WILL sign other guys. Whether the guys we sign are good enough to contribute in a meaningful manner is the real question but its not like we are going to have 3 transfers and then let 3 schollys sit unused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 What don't you think will happen? We WILL have transfers. We WILL sign other guys. Whether the guys we sign are good enough to contribute in a meaningful manner is the real question but its not like we are going to have 3 transfers and then let 3 schollys sit unused. I might be in favor of letting them stay open. It would really cut down on the mass substitution madness we saw this year. JC might have been better off just playing 8 guys in some semblance of a normal rotation rather than the helter skelter substitution approach he took. Now, if we do indeed have 3 openings and we fill them with players that are equivalent to what we already have, will he again take the roll of the dice approach where he throws everyone in the mix w/ the hope he hits on the right combination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Since this is all hypothetical since right now nobody has said they are transferring and JC has not said anybody won't be back yet - I know it is still early, this team needs help now and so you have to get players for next year. Now I do understand the problem if you end up with 5 new players for next year - you still have imbalance class wise, and if one is a junior transfer than that does create the problem of only 1 schollie for 2016 and that would not be good. I do think we have to keep at least 1 and maybe 2 depending on who might leave open for 2016. Sometimes you just have to keep riding the horse you got and hope the way is downhill for them so they can go faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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