NIT Game Thread SMU at ISU

[Soderball]

4 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Avila can't guard athletic big men underneath.  Defense will need to be better. But gutty win from Sycamores.  I was pulling for them.  Good crowd.

I feel for the ISU fans worked up over all this but they hired away a coach who brought a player with him from Lincoln Memorial.  Plus they have multiple transfers.  This is how it is now.  Maybe it'll work out for SLU for once.  A few demonizing the Chaifetzes they wish they had a Chaifetz.

Dr Chaifetz rules.

[DOC]

8 minutes ago, Soderball said:

Dr Chaifetz rules.

The fact someone said they wouldn’t apologize for ridiculing Dr.C since he was involved in Ford’s extension is laughable. He bailed us out big time! 

[billiken_roy]

14 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Avila can't guard athletic big men underneath. 

The A10 doesn't have a lot of quality athletic inside players.  And even if he gives up 20+ pts in a game he'll score double figures and the get 5+ assists.   I.e. he will hold his own against the best bigs in the A10 and the majority of the time he will be the best big on the floor. 

[Soderball]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

The A10 doesn't have a lot of quality athletic inside players.  And even if he gives up 20+ pts in a game he'll score double figures and the get 5+ assists.   I.e. he will hold his own against the best bigs in the A10 and the majority of the time he will be the best big on the floor. 

He has good hands and skills. Some of those assists were straight nasty. We haven't had a big guy with finesse for a long time.

[VeniceMenace]

If Blake Ahearn were the coach, that final score would have been 101-42.

[TheA_Bomb]

3 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

The A10 doesn't have a lot of quality athletic inside players.  And even if he gives up 20+ pts in a game he'll score double figures and the get 5+ assists.   I.e. he will hold his own against the best bigs in the A10 and the majority of the time he will be the best big on the floor. 

Yeah I agree with this but could be an issue in non-con or post season. Help D and a serviceable 4 could mitigate this issue. (assuming Schertz come with some of his guys).

Good part about 5 out is that he pulls the other possibly more athletic rim protector out of the paint to open up the lane for cutters.

Schertz D was ranked around 100 on KenPom they gave up some points to a very hot shooting SMU. Maybe with better athletes the D will be better.

[gobillsgo]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

ALL THINGS HOOSIER!  Good stuff Sycamores.  Keep rolling into Hinkle.  

 

I know it’s kind of your thing to be Devil’s Advocate on this board, and I respect the willingness to “commit to the bit”, but we obviously don’t want to have to wait until April to name Schertz coach.  Maybe you don’t care who our coach is, but potential transfers and recruits do. 

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

I know it’s kind of your thing to be Devil’s Advocate on this board, and I respect the willingness to “commit to the bit”, but we obviously don’t want to have to wait until April to name Schertz coach.  Maybe you don’t care who our coach is, but potential transfers and recruits do. 

Gobillsgo, you have absolutely no choice, and no one else has a choice either. We  have to wait until the coach ends leading the ISU team. That means they have to lose a game to some other school. Only then will he come. The Wiz did a rapid check in the NIT contestants and came to the conclusion that Nova could beat ISU. Not so, VCU ended Nova's run tonight. You have no choice but wait.

[almaman]

2 hours ago, juniorbill76 said:

Do you know what gophers can do to a golf course?

spit take when I saw post & ur avatar

[HoosierPal]

10 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

I know it’s kind of your thing to be Devil’s Advocate on this board, and I respect the willingness to “commit to the bit”, but we obviously don’t want to have to wait until April to name Schertz coach.  Maybe you don’t care who our coach is, but potential transfers and recruits do. 

I acknowledge your opinion and grant that you certainly have a valid point.  For me, this is much bigger than Billiken basketball.  If you saw the game last night, you saw 6400 passionate fans cheering on their team to a great comeback win.  I mentally compared that to our NIT, no-Collins game in 2022 where 3500 fans pretty much sat on their hands.  Indiana State deserves anything and everything they can get in this tourney run.  I was hoping for a Butler v ISU match, but that isn't going to happen. The Big East traveling to Terre Haute would have been interesting for me.  Minnesota will be a challenge for the Sycamores.  I will be rooting for them to win.  (An ISU v Cincy quarterfinals game would be intriguing, but that is too far ahead to think about.)

The NIT final is on April 4. That is two weeks from today.  If Schertz is in fact Billiken Plan A, hiring him on the following Monday won't impact SLU's next campaign on iota.  "Oh the Portal, we need to jump on it now."  Today there are 670 in the portal.  I will guarantee you that on April 5 there will be more than 670 still in the portal.  The number of P6 players in the portal is relatively small right now.  It will jump in the next two weeks. Their will be plenty of quality players still available (waiting on the highest bidder).  If as reported in the media, Schertz will bring 1, 2 or 3 of his players with him, then the timing becomes even more irrelevant for a Schertz hire.  His players won't be jumping into the portal prior to finishing out their NIT run.

Let ISU have their moment of glory.  The vast majority of basketball fans/pundits figure that Schertz is leaving Terre Haute, be it for St. Louis or some other destination.  He has to.  This is his window of opportunity. Let him end it his way.

If in fact Schertz is SLU Plan A, and if you don't want to wait this out, I suggest you advocate for Plan B.  SLU will be fine with Plan A, Plan B, or even Plan C.

[3star_recruit]

11 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Yeah I agree with this but could be an issue in non-con or post season. Help D and a serviceable 4 could mitigate this issue. (assuming Schertz come with some of his guys).

Good part about 5 out is that he pulls the other possibly more athletic rim protector out of the paint to open up the lane for cutters.

Schertz D was ranked around 100 on KenPom they gave up some points to a very hot shooting SMU. Maybe with better athletes the D will be better.

If Avila, Kent, Conwell and Swope come, those guys are all starting.  The defense is what it is.  The team formerly known as Indiana State will have to outscore teams to win in the A10 just like they did in the MVC.  Improving the defense will have to be a long-time project that starts after these guys graduate.

[slu72]

8 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If Avila, Kent, Conwell and Swope come, those guys are all starting.  The defense is what it is.  The team formerly known as Indiana State will have to outscore teams to win in the A10 just like they did in the MVC.  Improving the defense will have to be a long-time project that starts after these guys graduate.

All in favor of a high powered offense, but would really like to see a defense that is ranked somewhere between 100-150. Offense is fickle as a team is bound to have off nights. Good D tends to be a stabilizing force that can keep you in games when your O is misfiring. It’s why Rick always said to win defend and rebound. 

[3star_recruit]

22 minutes ago, slu72 said:

All in favor of a high powered offense, but would really like to see a defense that is ranked somewhere between 100-150. Offense is fickle as a team is bound to have off nights. Good D tends to be a stabilizing force that can keep you in games when your O is misfiring. It’s why Rick always said to win defend and rebound. 

Indiana St. is already ranked 102.  Just for context, the 97th and 98th ranked teams are St. Joseph's and Fordham.  Dayton is 105.  It's probably where we were during the Claggett and Highmark days.  So you don't need to be a top tier defensive team to get to the NCAA tournament.  But if you can't get stops against good teams, your stay will be short.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/defensive-efficiency

[cheeseman]

50 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I acknowledge your opinion and grant that you certainly have a valid point.  For me, this is much bigger than Billiken basketball.  If you saw the game last night, you saw 6400 passionate fans cheering on their team to a great comeback win.  I mentally compared that to our NIT, no-Collins game in 2022 where 3500 fans pretty much sat on their hands.  Indiana State deserves anything and everything they can get in this tourney run.  I was hoping for a Butler v ISU match, but that isn't going to happen. The Big East traveling to Terre Haute would have been interesting for me.  Minnesota will be a challenge for the Sycamores.  I will be rooting for them to win.  (An ISU v Cincy quarterfinals game would be intriguing, but that is too far ahead to think about.)

The NIT final is on April 4. That is two weeks from today.  If Schertz is in fact Billiken Plan A, hiring him on the following Monday won't impact SLU's next campaign on iota.  "Oh the Portal, we need to jump on it now."  Today there are 670 in the portal.  I will guarantee you that on April 5 there will be more than 670 still in the portal.  The number of P6 players in the portal is relatively small right now.  It will jump in the next two weeks. Their will be plenty of quality players still available (waiting on the highest bidder).  If as reported in the media, Schertz will bring 1, 2 or 3 of his players with him, then the timing becomes even more irrelevant for a Schertz hire.  His players won't be jumping into the portal prior to finishing out their NIT run.

Let ISU have their moment of glory.  The vast majority of basketball fans/pundits figure that Schertz is leaving Terre Haute, be it for St. Louis or some other destination.  He has to.  This is his window of opportunity. Let him end it his way.

If in fact Schertz is SLU Plan A, and if you don't want to wait this out, I suggest you advocate for Plan B.  SLU will be fine with Plan A, Plan B, or even Plan C.

I understand your biases and you are certainly entitled to them but if you expect us to feel sorry for ISU you are a bit naive.  Nobody ever felt sorry for us, and I doubt any ISU fan ever even thought about us.  For them to think that Shertz would be staying at ISU if not for us then they are delusional.  Now as far as us waiting for him for 2 weeks being just fine is also a bit naive.  As he keeps winning the price goes up and others enter into the fray - supply and demand simply.  As dominos begin to fall the entire landscape changes.  For SLU the sooner Shertz is free of ISU if he is in fact our Plan A then the better for us - after all, this is a Billiken fan board not a Sycamore one or a state of IN one either.  If we knew that a deal was truly in place then fine but given we don't know anything for certain we have to be concerned with our needs not ISU.  As far as Plan B or C being fine for us - you really don't know that so your opinion on that is simply that your opinion which as they use to say - a quarter and your opinion will buy you a cup of coffee.  Now as far as the portal goes you are correct there will be more players entering but any delay in working it cannot be in our best interest.  None of us know how hard or long it will be to talk/buy a player to come to SLU.

[TheA_Bomb]

29 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If Avila, Kent, Conwell and Swope come, those guys are all starting.  The defense is what it is.  The team formerly known as Indiana State will have to outscore teams to win in the A10 just like they did in the MVC.  Improving the defense will have to be a long-time project that starts after these guys graduate.

2 of those 4 are only Sophomores.  6'10 C, Avila is only a sophomore so he could get better physically and develop better defense. 

Schertz used a short bench normally only 7 players and was #359 in bench minutes (KenPom).

Starting 5 by most used line up

PG Larry Jr

SG Swope Jr.

SF Conwell So.

PF Kent Jr.

C Avila So.

If Jimmerson stays he's in the starting 5, he doesn't improve the defense. Thames, with coaching could crack that line up and be better on D. Medley is probably back up PG if he stays but not better for the D.

So if that's who plays we may see marginal improvement but there is a slight step up in competition so the defense maybe about the same as this ISU season KenPom ranked 112. 

But I don't know what the portal will do. So with the data now. I agree we're looking at a serviceable defense next year. Marked defensive improvement will take time.

[almaman]

23 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I understand your biases and you are certainly entitled to them but if you expect us to feel sorry for ISU you are a bit naive.  Nobody ever felt sorry for us, and I doubt any ISU fan ever even thought about us.  For them to think that Shertz would be staying at ISU if not for us then they are delusional.  Now as far as us waiting for him for 2 weeks being just fine is also a bit naive.  As he keeps winning the price goes up and others enter into the fray - supply and demand simply.  As dominos begin to fall the entire landscape changes.  For SLU the sooner Shertz is free of ISU if he is in fact our Plan A then the better for us - after all, this is a Billiken fan board not a Sycamore one or a state of IN one either.  If we knew that a deal was truly in place then fine but given we don't know anything for certain we have to be concerned with our needs not ISU.  As far as Plan B or C being fine for us - you really don't know that so your opinion on that is simply that your opinion which as they use to say - a quarter and your opinion will buy you a cup of coffee.  Now as far as the portal goes you are correct there will be more players entering but any delay in working it cannot be in our best interest.  None of us know how hard or long it will be to talk/buy a player to come to SLU.

U drip empathy 

[gobillsgo]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I acknowledge your opinion and grant that you certainly have a valid point.  For me, this is much bigger than Billiken basketball.  If you saw the game last night, you saw 6400 passionate fans cheering on their team to a great comeback win.  I mentally compared that to our NIT, no-Collins game in 2022 where 3500 fans pretty much sat on their hands.  Indiana State deserves anything and everything they can get in this tourney run.  I was hoping for a Butler v ISU match, but that isn't going to happen. The Big East traveling to Terre Haute would have been interesting for me.  Minnesota will be a challenge for the Sycamores.  I will be rooting for them to win.  (An ISU v Cincy quarterfinals game would be intriguing, but that is too far ahead to think about.)

The NIT final is on April 4. That is two weeks from today.  If Schertz is in fact Billiken Plan A, hiring him on the following Monday won't impact SLU's next campaign on iota.  "Oh the Portal, we need to jump on it now."  Today there are 670 in the portal.  I will guarantee you that on April 5 there will be more than 670 still in the portal.  The number of P6 players in the portal is relatively small right now.  It will jump in the next two weeks. Their will be plenty of quality players still available (waiting on the highest bidder).  If as reported in the media, Schertz will bring 1, 2 or 3 of his players with him, then the timing becomes even more irrelevant for a Schertz hire.  His players won't be jumping into the portal prior to finishing out their NIT run.

Let ISU have their moment of glory.  The vast majority of basketball fans/pundits figure that Schertz is leaving Terre Haute, be it for St. Louis or some other destination.  He has to.  This is his window of opportunity. Let him end it his way.

If in fact Schertz is SLU Plan A, and if you don't want to wait this out, I suggest you advocate for Plan B.  SLU will be fine with Plan A, Plan B, or even Plan C.

While I do feel for the ISU fans, I care about SLU basketball, and what is best for us.  You've been here a long time, you know that what can go wrong, often does go wrong for our program.  And until Schertz signs officially on the dotted line, and it’s announced, there is the possibility of something going wrong.  If ISU losing is what it takes to get this across the line, I sure as hell will be rooting for them to lose. 

[Soderball]

20 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

While I do feel for the ISU fans, I care about SLU basketball, and what is best for us.  You've been here a long time, you know that what can go wrong, often does go wrong for our program.  And until Schertz signs officially on the dotted line, and it’s announced, there is the possibility of something going wrong.  If ISU losing is what it takes to get this across the line, I sure as hell will be rooting for them to lose. 

It's already done. you are just nuts. Ford is gone, he can't hurt you anymore.

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

3 minutes ago, Soderball said:

It's already done. you are just nuts. Ford is gone, he can't hurt you anymore.

What's already done? Coach has not been announced. The more they win the more other teams will want him and his players. You dont think them winning the NIT and a bigger school coming in at the last minute and throwing cash at them all is possible? 

His players raise their NIL stock with every win. Other teams could key in on the individual players. If you are a SLU basketball fan (which we are learning some on this board just like basketball in general) you want them to lose as soon as possible. 

The difference between coach getting to discuss playing time with any current SLU player today verses 2 weeks from now after they have been contacted by other schools is not negligible. 

 

[Soderball]

8 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

What's already done? Coach has not been announced. The more they win the more other teams will want him and his players. You dont think them winning the NIT and a bigger school coming in at the last minute and throwing cash at them all is possible? 

His players raise their NIL stock with every win. Other teams could key in on the individual players. If you are a SLU basketball fan (which we are learning some on this board just like basketball in general) you want them to lose as soon as possible. 

The difference between coach getting to discuss playing time with any current SLU player today verses 2 weeks from now after they have been contacted by other schools is not negligible. 

 

When national media reports on it, it's done. You can relax now.

Current SLU players? You mean Jimerson and Parker? Thames? Thames is already home.

Parker's gone bro, and playing time is not going to be a factor for Jimerson. Jimerson can talk to Dr Chaifetz about the money. Has little to do with Schertz coming. If Jimerson stays Schertz will use him; if he moves on we will be fine.

 

The other guys? We wouldn't be bringing ISU's team in if we weren't trying to move them on to future endeavours already.

Were you watching this team this year? This is a purge and replace situation; that's why we pursued Schertz.

Maybe you meant Medley; who is definitely gonna stay to be the "back up PG" .. lol

 

Additionally, you do know that we are already reaching out to guys in the portal right now .. of course you'd know this if you were paying attention to the news that you claim to care so much about.

 

Take a time out for mental health.

[gobillsgo]

8 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

What's already done? Coach has not been announced. The more they win the more other teams will want him and his players. You dont think them winning the NIT and a bigger school coming in at the last minute and throwing cash at them all is possible? 

His players raise their NIL stock with every win. Other teams could key in on the individual players. If you are a SLU basketball fan (which we are learning some on this board just like basketball in general) you want them to lose as soon as possible. 

The difference between coach getting to discuss playing time with any current SLU player today verses 2 weeks from now after they have been contacted by other schools is not negligible. 

 

This. It’s not that hard. 

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

5 minutes ago, Soderball said:

When national media reports on it, it's done. You can relax now.

Current SLU players? You mean Jimerson and Parker? Thames? Thames is already home.

Parker's gone bro, and playing time is not going to be a factor for Jimerson. Jimerson can talk to Dr Chaifetz about the money. Has little to do with Schertz coming. If Jimerson stays Schertz will use him; if he moves on we will be fine.

 

The other guys? We wouldn't be bringing ISU's team in if we weren't trying to move them on to future endeavours already.

Were you watching this team this year? This is a purge and replace situation; that's why we pursued Schertz.

Maybe you meant Medley; who is definitely gonna stay to be the "back up PG" .. lol

 

Additionally, you do know that we are already reaching out to guys in the portal right now .. of course you'd know this if you were paying attention to the news that you claim to care so much about.

 

Take a time out for mental health.

Again.... where have you seen it being reported that it is final... I've seen trilly white smoke post but it's crazy to me you think things can't change. You have way more confidence in us not to fruck this up than I do lol. PD article today about Indiana State fans making it difficult for him to leave. 

I was thinking about Cian, but now Gibson. Any of those guys it would help to have a coach set and see what he has in store/ what his plan is. I think Cian will go to an a10 team and be a pain. But ya I'm not super worried about keeping anyone but people are saying wether Schertz becomes coach today or 2 weeks from now doesn't matter when it does make a difference.

Who is we? We have no coaching staff? Or the staff who is reaching out is going to be let go in a few days... How are we reaching out to people in the portal without a coach or a plan...

[ACE]

17 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

What's already done? Coach has not been announced. The more they win the more other teams will want him and his players. You dont think them winning the NIT and a bigger school coming in at the last minute and throwing cash at them all is possible? 

His players raise their NIL stock with every win. Other teams could key in on the individual players. If you are a SLU basketball fan (which we are learning some on this board just like basketball in general) you want them to lose as soon as possible. 

The difference between coach getting to discuss playing time with any current SLU player today verses 2 weeks from now after they have been contacted by other schools is not negligible. 

 

Exactly - why in the world would any SLU fan want ISU to make a deep run in the freakin' NIT? Bizarre.

In addition to the added variables you outline, there is a LOT of work to do for SLU - putting a staff together, meeting with current players to get a handle on that, working the portal, doing media, etc. I don't want him wasting time on ISU practices and game planning for NIT games, when he could be doing stuff for SLU. 

 

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

While I do feel for the ISU fans, I care about SLU basketball, and what is best for us.  You've been here a long time, you know that what can go wrong, often does go wrong for our program.  And until Schertz signs officially on the dotted line, and it’s announced, there is the possibility of something going wrong.  If ISU losing is what it takes to get this across the line, I sure as hell will be rooting for them to lose. 

I appreciate your and @cheeseman civil responses.  I understand your positions.

Perhaps I care more about the students than others on this board. (No I'm not indicting you or Cheese.)  The experience of college, and college athletics, can't be replicated.  I have no problem with the ISU athletes and students having this run in the NIT.  There is no guarantee that they will have anything like it again, so I say let them enjoy it, all the way to Hinkle.  

[Cowboy II]

22 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

2 of those 4 are only Sophomores.  6'10 C, Avila is only a sophomore so he could get better physically and develop better defense. 

Schertz used a short bench normally only 7 players and was #359 in bench minutes (KenPom).

Starting 5 by most used line up

PG Larry Jr

SG Swope Jr.

SF Conwell So.

PF Kent Jr.

C Avila So.

If Jimmerson stays he's in the starting 5, he doesn't improve the defense. Thames, with coaching could crack that line up and be better on D. Medley is probably back up PG if he stays but not better for the D.

So if that's who plays we may see marginal improvement but there is a slight step up in competition so the defense maybe about the same as this ISU season KenPom ranked 112. 

But I don't know what the portal will do. So with the data now. I agree we're looking at a serviceable defense next year. Marked defensive improvement will take time.

-is this his style or was the dropoff to player 8 large?