Drip ... drip ... drip

[Wendelprof]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39466589/nlrb-regional-official-clears-way-dartmouth-hoops-union

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

6 hours ago, Wendelprof said:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39466589/nlrb-regional-official-clears-way-dartmouth-hoops-union

Uhhh...panic?

[Lord Elrond]

It’s going to be interesting to see what happens. Obviously Dartmouth takes it to court, which means we are years away from a final determination. The interesting thing is how does this not apply to every sport? Dartmouth fields teams in sports I didn’t know were sports, including such gems as Men’s Heavyweight Rowing and Men’s Lightweight  Rowing (There’s a difference? Really???) and Women’s Rugby 15’s and 7’s (WTF is that? I get the Rugby part, but 15’s and 7’s???). Some of these don’t look cheap to run, like Men’s and Women’s Sailing and Women’s Equestrian. Never heard that those were cheap hobbies, so I can’t imagine running them as a sport with coaches is cheap. Are they all going to unionize now? Even if you paid the athletes only minimum wage, the money involved in that many athletes seems huge, and remember, they are on the clock for practice time and travel time (yes, you have to pay employees for travel related to work) in addition to game time. And you fund all this with ticket sales and TV revenue derived from an Ivy League school? 

[JMM28]

19 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

It’s going to be interesting to see what happens. Obviously Dartmouth takes it to court, which means we are years away from a final determination. The interesting thing is how does this not apply to every sport? Dartmouth fields teams in sports I didn’t know were sports, including such gems as Men’s Heavyweight Rowing and Men’s Lightweight  Rowing (There’s a difference? Really???) and Women’s Rugby 15’s and 7’s (WTF is that? I get the Rugby part, but 15’s and 7’s???). Some of these don’t look cheap to run, like Men’s and Women’s Sailing and Women’s Equestrian. Never heard that those were cheap hobbies, so I can’t imagine running them as a sport with coaches is cheap. Are they all going to unionize now? Even if you paid the athletes only minimum wage, the money involved in that many athletes seems huge, and remember, they are on the clock for practice time and travel time (yes, you have to pay employees for travel related to work) in addition to game time. And you fund all this with ticket sales and TV revenue derived from an Ivy League school? 

It would destroy women’s college athletics totally. The only surviving sports would be the top of bowl series football, D1 basketball, and a handful of baseball programs. 
 

But the dorks from Dartmouth would get….what that they don’t get now? 

[AnkielBreakers]

47 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

It’s going to be interesting to see what happens. Obviously Dartmouth takes it to court, which means we are years away from a final determination. The interesting thing is how does this not apply to every sport? Dartmouth fields teams in sports I didn’t know were sports, including such gems as Men’s Heavyweight Rowing and Men’s Lightweight  Rowing (There’s a difference? Really???) and Women’s Rugby 15’s and 7’s (WTF is that? I get the Rugby part, but 15’s and 7’s???). Some of these don’t look cheap to run, like Men’s and Women’s Sailing and Women’s Equestrian. Never heard that those were cheap hobbies, so I can’t imagine running them as a sport with coaches is cheap. Are they all going to unionize now? Even if you paid the athletes only minimum wage, the money involved in that many athletes seems huge, and remember, they are on the clock for practice time and travel time (yes, you have to pay employees for travel related to work) in addition to game time. And you fund all this with ticket sales and TV revenue derived from an Ivy League school? 

Maybe I should enroll at a CC and walk onto the golf team. And there, as a member of the proletariat, I will begin my life as a social justice warrior!!! 

[brianstl]

53 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

It would destroy women’s college athletics totally. The only surviving sports would be the top of bowl series football, D1 basketball, and a handful of baseball programs. 
 

But the dorks from Dartmouth would get….what that they don’t get now? 

Exactly, people really have no clue of the actual cost of professionalization of college sports. The added insurance and legal cost alone would bankrupt many college athletic departments.  Then you have state pay equality and equity laws which would apply to state schools who won’t be able to drop the now just as super expensive women’s sports (despite the fact they generate much less revenue) because of Title IX.  Then you add in what will become declining revenues across the board as college sports become viewed as minor league and you are left with bankrupted nothingness.

[Lord Elrond]

59 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

It would destroy women’s college athletics totally. The only surviving sports would be the top of bowl series football, D1 basketball, and a handful of baseball programs. 
 

But the dorks from Dartmouth would get….what that they don’t get now? 

That may be the point. At Dartmouth, it doesn’t seem like college sports, it seems more like social networking for the rich kids that they are warehousing for 4 years and then giving them a diploma, which enables Mommy and Daddy to give them their trust funds and give them jobs in the companies they and their friends own. That’s the only way to explain the boathouse on the lake with a beach that supports their fleet of 18 FJ’s, 18 Z420’s, 5 lasers and 4 powerboats for the sailing team, or the Riding Center that they own which has a farmhouse, three barns, indoor arena, two outdoor riding rings, multiple pastures, hay fields, and miles of riding trails (they don’t say how many horses they have).  Look it up on the facilities page of their athletics website if you want.  Dartmouth is obviously on a completely different financial level than most D1 schools. They have the cash to just pay them, clearly, if that’s all it was. They were and are fighting the battle for the rest of the college sports world.  They will be just fine at Dartmouth whatever happens. I can’t say the same about everyone else.

[Soderball]

"i told you"

[TheChosenOne]

1 hour ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Maybe I should enroll at a CC and walk onto the golf team. And there, as a member of the proletariat, I will begin my life as a social justice warrior!!! 

I had heard women's golf programs are having trouble even filling their rosters and have to go International to do so. I think we have the answer for you and kind of brings those two thoughts together haha.

[SLUMS81]

The private schools and their fan base will feel the pinch more than the state schools.  Athletes at state schools will be employees of the state - salary and benefits will be covered by the taxpayers. 

    We will all be picking up the tab for these kids, while being asked to assist with the BVF.

[SLU_Lax]

1 hour ago, TheChosenOne said:

I had heard women's golf programs are having trouble even filling their rosters and have to go International to do so. I think we have the answer for you and kind of brings those two thoughts together haha.

International is super interesting because they’d need a work visa and a student visa. I hadn’t thought deeply about the scope of the impact, but I’m sure there are a lot of unintended consequences. 

[thatskablamo]

39 minutes ago, SLUMS81 said:

The private schools and their fan base will feel the pinch more than the state schools.  Athletes at state schools will be employees of the state - salary and benefits will be covered by the taxpayers. 

    We will all be picking up the tab for these kids, while being asked to assist with the BVF.

Just like coaches at the state schools. I believe Kirk Ferentz is the highest paid state employee in Iowa. And it’s not even close. 

[brianstl]

45 minutes ago, SLUMS81 said:

The private schools and their fan base will feel the pinch more than the state schools.  Athletes at state schools will be employees of the state - salary and benefits will be covered by the taxpayers. 

    We will all be picking up the tab for these kids, while being asked to assist with the BVF.

You think state voters across the country that have turned against any funding for stadiums for pro teams are going to be cool with signing a 17 year old QB who hasn't graduated high school yet to a $500,000 per year deal not to mention a women's golfer to that same deal because of state pay equality laws not to mention paying females less would put their federal funding at risk because of how courts have consistently interpreted Title IX?

[TheA_Bomb]

37 minutes ago, SLU_Lax said:

International is super interesting because they’d need a work visa and a student visa. I hadn’t thought deeply about the scope of the impact, but I’m sure there are a lot of unintended consequences. 

I was thinking the same thing.

All this change makes it more imperative that SLU have a forward thinking AD. Need someone that can understand the changing landscape and adapt.

I think most FB, BB male athletes at the big schools will make less as employees than from straight unregulated NIL.  I think we're headed to implosion of NCAA and conferences self regulating with athletes going into a CBA with the conference.

Lots of ins and outs and what have yous, man.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

8 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I was thinking the same thing.

All this change makes it more imperative that SLU have a forward thinking AD. Need someone that can understand the changing landscape and adapt.

I think most FB, BB male athletes at the big schools will make less as employees than from straight unregulated NIL.  I think we're headed to implosion of NCAA and conferences self regulating with athletes going into a CBA with the conference.

Lots of ins and outs and what have yous, man.

Thanks. Now I want a Caucasian with lunch.

[Lord Elrond]

40 minutes ago, brianstl said:

You think state voters across the country that have turned against any funding for stadiums for pro teams are going to be cool with signing a 17 year old QB who hasn't graduated high school yet to a $500,000 per year deal not to mention a women's golfer to that same deal because of state pay equality laws not to mention paying females less would put their federal funding at risk because of how courts have consistently interpreted Title IX?

Even at minimum wage, SLU couldn’t afford it. 482 student-athletes, $12.50 minimum wage in Missouri, times how many hours spent per week at games, practice, prep time for games, travel time (yes, you have to pay an employee for their time if you require travel as a part of work). Adds up quickly.

[Soderball]

7 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Even at minimum wage, SLU couldn’t afford it. 482 student-athletes, $12.50 minimum wage in Missouri, times how many hours spent per week at games, practice, prep time for games, travel time (yes, you have to pay an employee for their time if you require travel as a part of work). Adds up quickly.

This is pretty much the fastest way to put SLU in the MVC.

[slufan13]

Glad we started to suck before the death of college sports. 

[Lord Elrond]

7 minutes ago, Soderball said:

This is pretty much the fastest way to put SLU in the MVC.

How does moving to the MVC matter? Or even moving to Division 3?  If a student-athlete is legally an employee, it doesn’t matter what conference or division you are in, Federal labor law applies.

[Soderball]

23 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

How does moving to the MVC matter? Or even moving to Division 3?  If a student-athlete is legally an employee, it doesn’t matter what conference or division you are in, Federal labor law applies.

Less travel time. Less expensive cities for the per-diem expenses.

There's a lot of new considerations to factor in when thinking about employee compensation.

The university could kick them all off the included campus housing though. That's significant cost-savings.

[brianstl]

25 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

How does moving to the MVC matter? Or even moving to Division 3?  If a student-athlete is legally an employee, it doesn’t matter what conference or division you are in, Federal labor law applies.

You think voters and legislators in MO are onboard with adding 4,976 people to the state's public payroll that would happen if the state's public college athletes became employees?

[Soderball]

24 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

How does moving to the MVC matter? Or even moving to Division 3?  If a student-athlete is legally an employee, it doesn’t matter what conference or division you are in, Federal labor law applies.

Also state labor law applies. Please factor that in as well.

[Dr Bird]

The immense popularity of college sports is uniquely an American thing.   It sounds like its days are numbered.

[TheChosenOne]

Anytime you start to think about potential "solutions" you run into more and more questions, so I have no idea what the future of college athletics looks like. I also don't pretend to know all of the complexities beyond reading them and concluding there is no solution!

I do think it appears that the first step could be the Big Ten and SEC football programs splitting off and doing their own thing outside of the NCAA for football. Again, I don't know what exactly that looks like or what additional conferences/programs would be part of that, but it seems like there is at least some movement there. And I do think fans of those programs won't overly care if that becomes more of a true minor league football league. Football in America is just different and once you layer on the tribal nature of college football fanbases, I don't think those programs that go that route would be any less popular.

[NYBilliken]

To avoid the law, college sport would need to be organized as clubs - as they first began. The football or basketball club would pay its own way, pay their own coaches, and make their own TV deals, then the students would make all the money. Create nationwide relegation system where club teams compete in their region at different levels and can rise to national level. No transfer limitations, you just need to be enrolled student to play.