Recruiting - 2025

[SLURadioBoy]

Impressive performance for Zyree today. I wonder when the new staff will be refreshing the offers to him and Walsh? Also, I’m curious if they will be recruiting Nicholas Randal from Vashon/BBE.

 

[SLURadioBoy]

Pretty big day for Walsh yesterday too.

 

[Pistol]

 

[MusicCityBilliken]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

 

I see Richmond has him down for an official visit in 2 weeks. Lately he's getting a lot of interest.

[Pistol]

Vincent Chaudhri - SF, 6-7, 205 - Wallkill, NY (Northfield Mount Hermon, MA) - AAU: Riverside Hawks (Under Armour Association) - Twitter: @ChaudhriVincent
Offers: Saint Louis, Richmond, George Mason, Fordham, St. John's, Iowa, Georgia Tech, Oklahoma State, SMU, East Carolina, Brown, Bowling Green, Robert Morris, Charleston, Monmouth, Manhattan, NJIT, Bryant, Central Connecticut State.

Interest: Wyoming, San Jose State, North Texas, Yale, Murray State, Miami-Ohio, Hofstra, Elon, Towson, Furman, Iona, Fairfield, UMBC.

Latest News: Chaudhri received an offer from SLU. (6/2/24)

Scouting Report: Chaudhri is a big, skilled wing who stretches the floor with his shooting and mid-range game. He's versatile defensively and can guard the 1-4. He's a smart player who sees the floor well and scores in a variety of ways. He's an explosive finisher. Chaudhri transferred from Trinity-Pawling School in NY to Northfield Mount Hermon for his junior and senior years.

-The SLU coaches were recruiting him when they were at Indiana State but hadn't offered yet.

[Crewsorlose]

Update on Zyree Collins:

 

[SLURadioBoy]

Not sure how hard the staff is recruiting Randall, but thought this might be of interest to people.

 

[brianstl]

Big loss for Vashon.

[Pistol]

I hate this trend.

Everyone is talking about the downfall of college sports but I think the massive shift within high school sports has been criminally underreported.

[wgstl]

49 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I hate this trend.

Everyone is talking about the downfall of college sports but I think the massive shift within high school sports has been criminally underreported.

100%. Webster will have potentially two 5stars next year and I doubt both finish up in stl  

[Lord Elrond]

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

I hate this trend.

Everyone is talking about the downfall of college sports but I think the massive shift within high school sports has been criminally underreported.

Are we looking at the evolution of training male professional basketball players away from the high school/college athletics model used in the US to the European model where teenage kids who show promise go to a private club, learn their sport, and then move to pro ranks without going to a college at all? Do you see transfer fees being paid to these clubs by a pro league team, with the eventual elimination of the college draft?  Will that mean that the colleges get bypassed entirely by the athletes who want to go pro, and only the players who realize they have no realistic chance at going pro staying in college because a degree with no student loan debt looks like a really good deal?

[Old guy]

19 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Are we looking at the evolution of training male professional basketball players away from the high school/college athletics model used in the US to the European model where teenage kids who show promise go to a private club, learn their sport, and then move to pro ranks without going to a college at all? Do you see transfer fees being paid to these clubs by a pro league team, with the eventual elimination of the college draft?  Will that mean that the colleges get bypassed entirely by the athletes who want to go pro, and only the players who realize they have no realistic chance at going pro staying in college because a degree with no student loan debt looks like a really good deal?

These are all valid points. The truth is that we are witnessing the end of high school/college athletic system. What will come to replace it is not yet clear. I think the key factor will be money. The donor's money will not continue flowing eternally to pay for the NCAA blunders. What comes instead of the current system is not clear. However, this does not mean the complete end of college athletics, it may just be the end of college athletics as a conduit for professional sports. 

[Lord Elrond]

5 hours ago, Old guy said:

These are all valid points. The truth is that we are witnessing the end of high school/college athletic system. What will come to replace it is not yet clear. I think the key factor will be money. The donor's money will not continue flowing eternally to pay for the NCAA blunders. What comes instead of the current system is not clear. However, this does not mean the complete end of college athletics, it may just be the end of college athletics as a conduit for professional sports. 

I’m the first to admit I’m not sure exactly where this is heading, but it does look like elite athletes are starting to want to find another path to go pro. However, remember, only a very tiny number of current D1 athletes will ever play in the NBA, so that small a number being removed from college ranks shouldn’t mean an end to college athletics, provided the colleges make sure that the ones who don’t make the NBA or the G-league are welcome in college after going the club route. The NCAA may have to change some current rules to allow athletes who accept money at a high school level to be eligible to play college ball.  Remember, if they play well in D1 ball, that could mean a second shot at the pro ranks.

Again, maybe I’m wrong, and a lot of players who go that route will simply not want to play D1 basketball if they don’t look like they will make it in the pro ranks. I guess we will see, because the trend is happening regardless of what fans want.

[Old guy]

2 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

I’m the first to admit I’m not sure exactly where this is heading, but it does look like elite athletes are starting to want to find another path to go pro. However, remember, only a very tiny number of current D1 athletes will ever play in the NBA, so that small a number being removed from college ranks shouldn’t mean an end to college athletics, provided the colleges make sure that the ones who don’t make the NBA or the G-league are welcome in college after going the club route. The NCAA may have to change some current rules to allow athletes who accept money at a high school level to be eligible to play college ball.  Remember, if they play well in D1 ball, that could mean a second shot at the pro ranks.

Again, maybe I’m wrong, and a lot of players who go that route will simply not want to play D1 basketball if they don’t look like they will make it in the pro ranks. I guess we will see, because the trend is happening regardless of what fans want.

Largely agree with you with some differences. I do not think the NCAA will survive the changes, and I think the attraction provided by NILs is too much to be resisted by a lot of the players and their families. So, I tend to think that the major impact of these changes will hit the players and their families. They will  have to accept the fact that very few of the HS basketball players will ever get to the NBA. As far as the NILs go, I think the interest of the very large donors will shift from college sports to professional sports, and this will shrink the available funds for NILs. It will take time for these changes to take place.

[Pistol]

22 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

Are we looking at the evolution of training male professional basketball players away from the high school/college athletics model used in the US to the European model where teenage kids who show promise go to a private club, learn their sport, and then move to pro ranks without going to a college at all? Do you see transfer fees being paid to these clubs by a pro league team, with the eventual elimination of the college draft?  Will that mean that the colleges get bypassed entirely by the athletes who want to go pro, and only the players who realize they have no realistic chance at going pro staying in college because a degree with no student loan debt looks like a really good deal?

I don't have a good answer for what will happen next.

My issue is that a lot of aspiring college/pro athletes are now opting to go to "prep schools" that recruit them out of their real high schools. It's one thing for the international system of kids being tracked into club programs from a young age. It's another to have shady coaches taking advantage of loopholes in our system to set up fake schools that exist to serve a basketball program, with the long-term goal of putting kids into high-level college and pro ball and leeching off their earnings.

If you're running a school, it should be held to some standards. Bishop Sycamore was just the tip of the iceberg.

[Lord Elrond]

3 hours ago, Pistol said:

I don't have a good answer for what will happen next.

My issue is that a lot of aspiring college/pro athletes are now opting to go to "prep schools" that recruit them out of their real high schools. It's one thing for the international system of kids being tracked into club programs from a young age. It's another to have shady coaches taking advantage of loopholes in our system to set up fake schools that exist to serve a basketball program, with the long-term goal of putting kids into high-level college and pro ball and leeching off their earnings.

If you're running a school, it should be held to some standards. Bishop Sycamore was just the tip of the iceberg.

That’s why I like the transfer market system set up in soccer. The contract a player signs with a club is his money, but the transfer fee is paid by the gaining club to the losing club. No one is leeching money from a player’s earnings. I’m not sure I see that happening in the US, the NBA is so used to getting players trained up and then just drafting them for free that they will never want to change.

What would help is if the NBA borrowed from the MLS model and opened its own academy’s. Take St Louis City SC for example, it’s academy system has a professional coaching staff paid for by St Louis City SC, with coaches at the U14, U15, U16, U17 and UPSL levels, specialty coaches (goalkeeper, fitness) and a training staff. They also work within the college system, players can go to college as an option after playing for them at a lower level if they don’t sign with an MLS NextPro team. A player playing for an MLS academy is showing his skills directly to an MLS club, which can be a huge advantage to a player.  Overall the system set up in soccer also seems to have made a big impact in cleaning up the bad actors you see on the basketball side in clubs outside of the MLS academy system, getting a lot of transparency added to the whole system. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it seems to make things much better than what’s going on in basketball due to a lot more openness and visibility, and seems to really benefit the players much more overall, while improving the quality of players MLS gets.  If the MLS has the money to do this, you can’t tell me that the NBA doesn’t have the money to do something similar.  What’s missing on the basketball side is a willingness to accept some responsibility for improving the players in the pipeline heading toward them.  Historically, that’s just been handed to them for free, all they need to do is hold a draft to pull in players at the end of the process. The NBA has taken some small steps in player development with the G-league, but I think they and players would benefit by looking at what MLS does as a model. 

[thatskablamo]

On 6/8/2024 at 10:01 PM, Pistol said:

I hate this trend.

Everyone is talking about the downfall of college sports but I think the massive shift within high school sports has been criminally underreported.

But this has been going on for as long as Oak Hill and Hargrave have been around. It’s been accelerated for sure with the IMG type of programs, but it is for sure gone from a leak to a flood. All the cash that is being funneled into the AAU system doesn’t help either.

[brianstl]

6 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

That’s why I like the transfer market system set up in soccer. The contract a player signs with a club is his money, but the transfer fee is paid by the gaining club to the losing club. No one is leeching money from a player’s earnings. I’m not sure I see that happening in the US, the NBA is so used to getting players trained up and then just drafting them for free that they will never want to change.

What would help is if the NBA borrowed from the MLS model and opened its own academy’s. Take St Louis City SC for example, it’s academy system has a professional coaching staff paid for by St Louis City SC, with coaches at the U14, U15, U16, U17 and UPSL levels, specialty coaches (goalkeeper, fitness) and a training staff. They also work within the college system, players can go to college as an option after playing for them at a lower level if they don’t sign with an MLS NextPro team. A player playing for an MLS academy is showing his skills directly to an MLS club, which can be a huge advantage to a player.  Overall the system set up in soccer also seems to have made a big impact in cleaning up the bad actors you see on the basketball side in clubs outside of the MLS academy system, getting a lot of transparency added to the whole system. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it seems to make things much better than what’s going on in basketball due to a lot more openness and visibility, and seems to really benefit the players much more overall, while improving the quality of players MLS gets.  If the MLS has the money to do this, you can’t tell me that the NBA doesn’t have the money to do something similar.  What’s missing on the basketball side is a willingness to accept some responsibility for improving the players in the pipeline heading toward them.  Historically, that’s just been handed to them for free, all they need to do is hold a draft to pull in players at the end of the process. The NBA has taken some small steps in player development with the G-league, but I think they and players would benefit by looking at what MLS does as a model. 

We will never get a transfer market system with the NBA, MLB, NHL and NFL.  The player associations don't want it because it would divert league revenue away from the salary pool for veteran players.  The leagues don't want it because the draft provides competitive balance they believe is central to the nationwide popularity of their sport.

If the colleges are smart, they won't let themselves become minor leagues.  They will follow the same path in basketball and football that they have in hockey and baseball.  Hockey has had the juniors around forever in addition to their minor league system.   Baseball has always had a robust minor league system that college has lost out on players, too.  Despite that, both those sports are growing massively in popularity at the college level.  Don't become a glorified minor league, because that will eventually kill those sports.

High school sports will be fine.  That is one level where it should be especially true that you root for the name on the front of the jersey and not the back.  If kids want to play for a prep school or some other program, so be it.  We don't freak out about kids playing junior hockey, playing MLS Next/ECNL for soccer or going to tennis academies.  Just enjoy the kids that are playing for your program, who more often than in the past are more likely going to be at your school for reasons that involve something more than just how talented they were in basketball.

[Pistol]

44 minutes ago, thatskablamo said:

But this has been going on for as long as Oak Hill and Hargrave have been around. It’s been accelerated for sure with the IMG type of programs, but it is for sure gone from a leak to a flood. All the cash that is being funneled into the AAU system doesn’t help either.

Oak Hill and Hargrave are legitimate academic institutions, though. They just decided to spend on national basketball programs. If a school or its alums want to do that, I'm not going to tell them how to spend their money. My problem is with the fraudulent ones.

[Lord Elrond]

9 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Oak Hill and Hargrave are legitimate academic institutions, though. They just decided to spend on national basketball programs. If a school or its alums want to do that, I'm not going to tell them how to spend their money. My problem is with the fraudulent ones.

Agreed, the legitimate academic institutions are not the problem at all, the fraudulent ones are. That’s why setting up a system where the legitimate institutions are supported, and more legitimate ones are encouraged. The NBA will not go with a transfer market system, but putting a NBA stamp on legitimate academies, either by setting up their own, or partnering more with legitimate ones seems the best way to counter it. And this doesn’t need to impact colleges, the examples are baseball, hockey, and soccer. While some players may skip college and go pro, it will only be a small number, and it won’t impact colleges that much. The pro sports that have depended on free development of talent in the past need to step in and do more as times change.

[TheChosenOne]

43 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Oak Hill and Hargrave are legitimate academic institutions, though. They just decided to spend on national basketball programs. If a school or its alums want to do that, I'm not going to tell them how to spend their money. My problem is with the fraudulent ones.

Right. I don't think many folks have much issue with the premiere basketball academies with legitimate coaches that are linked to legitimate academic institutions in some form. And that being the route for the elite recruits who are no doubt capable of pursuing a professional basketball career. The questions for me come when you go to the lower tier basketball academies that have substandard academic and athletic facilities run by questionable individuals that are potentially selling a bill of goods to kids who are more marginal prospects enticing them to leave their traditional high school. We saw it locally with an institution in SLU's backyard that many of us who went to SLU had no idea existed and it was even able to poach a player from Chaminade and other local programs. Those are the places I have significant concern about because it is easy to question the motives and whether they are providing a benefit to these players while presumably taking their money. It is also really strange to me that these "sketchier" academies are primarily filled with International players. I just don't know enough about it, but I fear there is not enough oversight of these places and whether they are actually serving these kids and advancing their careers.

[brianstl]

The real answer when it comes to the high level high school basketball players is to have certain AAU programs become the basketball version of soccer's ECNL and detach the education part from the basketball part.  Those top kids that feel the need to play with and against higher level players still go to their high school but they play for a Beagles team that is more like Gallagher's ECNL program than a summer circuit program.

[Westy03]

1 minute ago, brianstl said:

The real answer when it comes to the high level high school basketball players is to have certain AAU programs become the basketball version of soccer's ECNL and detach the education part from the basketball part.  Those top kids that feel the need to play with and against higher level players still go to their high school but they play for a Beagles team that is more like Gallagher's ECNL program than a summer circuit program.

Youth hockey has a very similar setup.  

[brianstl]

Just now, Westy03 said:

Youth hockey has a very similar setup.  

Yes it does.

[BLIKNS]

Is this correct... A recruit in Missouri, who has signed with a school in that state , can get NIL deals , while still in high school, but only if they are 18??