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I like this team next year.


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19 minutes ago, Bonner89 said:

4 NCAA appearances throughout his coaching career which spans 2 decades. We have the location, recruiting base, facilities, and budget to be better. If you're ok with being the Atlanta Braves of the A10, then I don't know what else to say.

Who are you talking about? 

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Not a lot of love/mentions of Linssen on this thread yet (or Jimmy Bell for that matter). But Linssen will be a big contributor to any success we have next year. Okoro may fit more directly into the French roll, but having the depth and different look that Linssen brings is an important asset. 

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27 minutes ago, Bonner89 said:

4 NCAA appearances throughout his coaching career which spans 2 decades. We have the location, recruiting base, facilities, and budget to be better. If you're ok with being the Atlanta Braves of the A10, then I don't know what else to say.

At least troll with correct info

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43 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

ford is such a good recruiter (at least compared to all the head coaches since i started watching in ekkerball) he can be the worst game coach and i will take ford.   at least we are guaranteed to have a chance to go places with ford with the talent i am betting he will always have.   

our track record of bringing in coaches is not very good.   and every time you bring one in you are starting over.   i dont like starting over.   as far as i am concerned, we can stuggle through x's and o's till ford decides he is done with basketball.   at least we know we will be in the post season discussion with coach ford.   after what i have seen for 40+ years, i will take that.   now 40 years more of almost billiken basketball, maybe then i will change my mind.   but for now, ford's our guy.  

now that all said, if i want to ***** about his numbskull use (or lack therof) of his very talented roster, i think we can all do that.   part of being a fan is second guessing the game and replaying everything that happened.   those that dont like that, too bad.   dont read my posts then please.  

my problem isn't with questioning the coach. it's with the assumption that what you think he should have done would have achieved better results. Odds are if you take every instance he's questioned, you'd be right now and then, but probably wrong more often

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3 hours ago, Bonner89 said:

4 NCAA appearances throughout his coaching career which spans 2 decades. We have the location, recruiting base, facilities, and budget to be better. If you're ok with being the Atlanta Braves of the A10, then I don't know what else to say.

Do you know how to use google?  If you did, you could just maybe get something right.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/travis-ford-1.html

You are welcome.

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4 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Arkansas starts three guys who are all as good or better ballhandlers than Perkins.  And they are all scorers.  Our best ballhandler, Yuri, is also one of our weakest offensive players.  Do you not see the difference in what that allows them to do offensively?

I see the difference, but no reason we can’t have development from TJ, Dermarius, etc to be good ballhandlers. I personally expect TJ to be a game changer in coming years. He has NBA body for a SG, and if he can get more minutes while maintaining 40%+ 3pt... lookout. 

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I don't get the belief that guys are going to get better just because another calendar year has turned over.  Who is going to develop TJ and Demarius to be good ballhandlers?  Who is going to develop Thatch and Hargrove's game?  Who is going to improve Jimmy Bell's poor game time outputs?  The same guy that improved Hasahn French's game?  Love Hasahn but he has been four years of the same player .... warrior, rebounder, call him what you want.  He still shot crap from outside five feet and was a terrible free throw shooter from Day One.  Who is going to teach Yuri how to make shots?  Who has gotten better over these last few seasons and showed massive change since they got here?  Bess became a better shooter but folks talked about him being in the gym at 6 am daily.  Goodwin improved his shot and FTs by shooting this past summer with his dad as I recall.  I want it to happen and I so believe it will happen but past practice hasn't shown me much so far.  

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11 hours ago, A10Ref said:

I see the difference, but no reason we can’t have development from TJ, Dermarius, etc to be good ballhandlers. I personally expect TJ to be a game changer in coming years. He has NBA body for a SG, and if he can get more minutes while maintaining 40%+ 3pt... lookout. 

Being athletic and 6'5 doesn't make you a shooting guard.  Before anything else, you have to be a good ball handler to be a guard.  If you can force Hargrove to put the ball on the floor in the halfcourt, you've gone a long way to neutralize him.  That's been the book on him since high school - don't allow him to get a running start.  Hargrove can only be as effective as the guards feeding him the ball. 

If you really want a run and gun style you should be praying for scoring playmaker to take the pressure off Yuri.

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25 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I don't get the belief that guys are going to get better just because another calendar year has turned over.  Who is going to develop TJ and Demarius to be good ballhandlers?  Who is going to develop Thatch and Hargrove's game?  Who is going to improve Jimmy Bell's poor game time outputs?  The same guy that improved Hasahn French's game?  Love Hasahn but he has been four years of the same player .... warrior, rebounder, call him what you want.  He still shot crap from outside five feet and was a terrible free throw shooter from Day One.  Who is going to teach Yuri how to make shots?  Who has gotten better over these last few seasons and showed massive change since they got here?  Bess became a better shooter but folks talked about him being in the gym at 6 am daily.  Goodwin improved his shot and FTs by shooting this past summer with his dad as I recall.  I want it to happen and I so believe it will happen but past practice hasn't shown me much so far.  

I agree with you that fans often make the mistake of assuming just because players get a year older doesn’t mean they will automatically get better. However, I disagree that we haven’t seen improvement historically. In fact it’s a lot easier to think of guys who did get better than players who didn’t.

Demarius Jacobs was certainly a better player this year than last. His improvement was even more noticeable from freshman to sophomore year. His ballhandling has already improved.

Fred Thatch missed an entire season and came back to be a better player than he was before his illness. His ballhandling has also noticeably improved.

Hargrove went from being a 27% 3-point shooter to being a 43% 3-point shooter. Hard to consider that anything but improvement.

Goodwin improved every element of his game from last year. His 3-point shooting improved each of his 4 seasons.

Perkins improved his 3pt and FT shooting figures this year. He tripled his assists per game number. I consider that improvement.

Yuri Collins improved his ft shooting and assists and lowered his turnovers. Yes, he still needs to shoot the ball better from 3. But his overall game certainly improved.

As you noted, Javon Bess significantly improved as a shooter. On The House That Rick Built podcast he credited the coaching staff for giving him the tools and plan to improve that shooting and working with him in some of those 6am workouts you mention to improve.

Davell Roby went from a mediocre player under dead to a good player under Ford. He improved in all areas.

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I agree with NH that we have seen improvement.  Also, Taj you answered your own question when you cited Goodwin and Bess.  The players have to choose to put in the work in the off season.  I believe coaches can only mandate and be present for 8 hours of skills work per week including weights and conditioning.  These guys just played an entire season where almost all of their free time was eaten up by basketball and school.  Some guys have the work ethic and desire to will themselves to improve and others need a break.

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26 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Being athletic and 6'5 doesn't make you a shooting guard.  Before anything else, you have to be a good ball handler to be a guard.  If you can force Hargrove to put the ball on the floor in the halfcourt, you've gone a long way to neutralize him.  That's been the book on him since high school - don't allow him to get a running start.  Hargrove can only be as effective as the guards feeding him the ball. 

If you really want a run and gun style you should be praying for scoring playmaker to take the pressure off Yuri.

i guess i have to ask 3*, why cant hargrove, strickland, jacobs, jimmmerson, thatch, improve to be that scoring playmaker?  surely one of them can fix their deficiency(s) that would keep them from being "that" player.    i.e. we are back to taj's post questioning billiken development.   

and anticipating you claiming we need to find a player with that makeup from the get go as you maybe cant develop that, well as good of a recruiter that ford has shown himself to be, then why havent we found that player?

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2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i guess i have to ask 3*, why cant hargrove, strickland, jacobs, jimmmerson, thatch, improve to be that scoring playmaker?  surely one of them can fix their deficiency(s) that would keep them from being "that" player.    i.e. we are back to taj's post questioning billiken development.   

and anticipating you claiming we need to find a player with that makeup from the get go as you maybe cant develop that, well as good of a recruiter that ford has shown himself to be, then why havent we found that player?

By Billiken standards, Coach Ford is an awesome recruiter.  But two issues have often plagued his rosters before he ever got to SLU: recruiting multiple lead guards and recruiting athletic size (6'8+).  He's always had Terrence Hargrove and Hasahn French level athletes on his teams.  He just hasn't managed to  pair them with Mitchells and McCalls.

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52 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

By Billiken standards, Coach Ford is an awesome recruiter.  But two issues have often plagued his rosters before he ever got to SLU: recruiting multiple lead guards and recruiting athletic size (6'8+).  He's always had Terrence Hargrove and Hasahn French level athletes on his teams.  He just hasn't managed to  pair them with Mitchells and McCalls.

Roy’s first paragraph still stands. As what I’ve said earlier still stands too. I expect, at a minimum, some development. TJ’s body is great and he’s a young kid. No way we expect this version of him to be it. We’ve already seen him go from 27% to 42% from 3. 

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2 hours ago, A10Ref said:

Roy’s first paragraph still stands. As what I’ve said earlier still stands too. I expect, at a minimum, some development. TJ’s body is great and he’s a young kid. No way we expect this version of him to be it. We’ve already seen him go from 27% to 42% from 3. 

I expect Hargrove will be an energy guy off the bench next year, playing slightly more minutes than this year and continuing to become a better defender.  Then when Perkins graduates I expect him to start his senior year, average double figures and be one of our better rebounders.  None of this involves him becoming a guard.  And that's what successful player development, on average, looks like: evolving from a bench player to one of the better players at his position in the conference.  Transformational leaps are rare.

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19 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I expect Hargrove will be an energy guy off the bench next year, playing slightly more minutes than this year and continuing to become a better defender.  Then when Perkins graduates I expect him to start his senior year, average double figures and be one of our better rebounders.  None of this involves him becoming a guard.  And that's what successful player development, on average, looks like: evolving from a bench player to one of the better players at his position in the conference.  Transformational leaps are rare.

The player that I think could develop into that effective combo guard is Thatch. He needs to improve his ball handling, however, remember he's not even 30 games into his D1 career. The last 4 games he averaged 9.5 ppg while shooting 65% from the field and 4/5 from 3. Is that just a hot streak? I don't know. I do know T Ford touted his ability to score pretty strongly

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3 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

The player that I think could develop into that effective combo guard is Thatch. He needs to improve his ball handling, however, remember he's not even 30 games into his D1 career. The last 4 games he averaged 9.5 ppg while shooting 65% from the field and 4/5 from 3. Is that just a hot streak? I don't know. I do know T Ford touted his ability to score pretty strongly

I agree with the statement on Thatch. Nitpitcking but he his 61 games into his D1 career https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fred-thatchjr-1.html

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Travis Ford also said he was going more uptempo and running this year.  I’d use the ‘coachspeak’ term but Hoosier Pal will crucify me for it.

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2 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Travis Ford also said he was going more uptempo and running this year.  I’d use the ‘coachspeak’ term but Hoosier Pal will crucify me for it.

We were pre-COVID; post COVID and against stingier defense, not so much.  Even so, this is the highest scoring Billiken team in over 25 years.

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3 hours ago, NH said:

I agree with you that fans often make the mistake of assuming just because players get a year older doesn’t mean they will automatically get better. However, I disagree that we haven’t seen improvement historically. In fact it’s a lot easier to think of guys who did get better than players who didn’t.

Demarius Jacobs was certainly a better player this year than last. His improvement was even more noticeable from freshman to sophomore year. His ballhandling has already improved.

Fred Thatch missed an entire season and came back to be a better player than he was before his illness. His ballhandling has also noticeably improved.

Hargrove went from being a 27% 3-point shooter to being a 43% 3-point shooter. Hard to consider that anything but improvement.

Goodwin improved every element of his game from last year. His 3-point shooting improved each of his 4 seasons.

Perkins improved his 3pt and FT shooting figures this year. He tripled his assists per game number. I consider that improvement.

Yuri Collins improved his ft shooting and assists and lowered his turnovers. Yes, he still needs to shoot the ball better from 3. But his overall game certainly improved.

As you noted, Javon Bess significantly improved as a shooter. On The House That Rick Built podcast he credited the coaching staff for giving him the tools and plan to improve that shooting and working with him in some of those 6am workouts you mention to improve.

Davell Roby went from a mediocre player under dead to a good player under Ford. He improved in all areas.

Thank you. This has everything I wanted to say. From now on, you are my proxy-poster. Post away. :)

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12 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

You're right on games. Somehow I forgot his froah year

thatch basketball eligibilitywise will be a sophomore again next year with his medical redshirt and now the covid free year.   by the time he leaves slu he very well may be a doctor.

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2 thoughts for next season:

1. I'll toss out the caveat that coaching offense has always been something that Travis Ford's haters seem to harp on as a flaw.  However, I think/hope that our offense will actually be better next season.  Goodwin & French are/were great defensive players, but never great offensive players.  I hope we take a more perimeter oriented approach if we have multiple shooters surrounding Okoro as our primary lineup.  SLU this season has been well above average at making 3 pointers, but well below average on 3 point attempts.

2. I hope we press more to force turnovers & play more up tempo next season.  IMO we have the depth to run & lengthty defenders to cause problems (Thatch, Hargrove, Strickland).

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