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SLU & NCAA Corona Virus Discussion


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2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

The best thing Europe can do is ramp up their testing and isolation process to emulate South Korea.  If we're the only major country still crippled by  the pandemic in the fall, this adminstration will be under enormous economic and political pressures from it's trading partners to fall in line.

If that happens and this administration hasn’t changed course, then it will be facing much bigger issues on the domestic front.

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1 minute ago, moytoy12 said:

Do you disagree with the argument that widespread testing is needed asap? Not necessarily talking about antibodies, but just testing for the virus.

It would be great, but it really isn't going to change the ultimate body count. The virus isn't going anywhere and spreads too easily.  It is going to claim its victims eventually.  We can't put everyone in a bubble and the country isn't going to be able to stop the virus from being reintroduced from somewhere else even if we lockdown for a year.  Like I said earlier the death count isn't a scoreboard where we can keep it low by playing great defense.  It is clock that is going to keep on counting up until it claims all the people susceptible to it.  Everything we do is just delaying the inevitable running out of that clock.

There are some great benefits of delaying that clock, but at a certain point the cost of delaying that clock are going to be much higher than the benefits.  That is the conversation we need to be having instead of throwing around blame and claiming people are popping champagne over death totals/racists/communists/fools/etc..

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29 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

The best thing Europe can do is ramp up their testing and isolation process to emulate South Korea.  If we're the only major country still crippled by  the pandemic in the fall, this adminstration will be under enormous economic and political pressures from its trading partners to fall in line.

They haven't eradicated the virus in South Korea.  As soon as they loosen the controls their numbers will go back up.  Then what are they going to do?  How long can you keep lockdowns in place across the world?  How often can you go back to the lockdown model?

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6 minutes ago, brianstl said:

They haven't eradicated the virus in South Korea.  As soon as they loosen the controls their numbers will go back up.  Then what are they going to do?  How long can you keep lockdowns in place across the world?  How often can you go back to the lockdown model?

We can get back to something resembling normal without eradicating the virus. Most of South Korea's factories restaurants and shopping malls are open.

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4 minutes ago, brianstl said:

They haven't eradicated the virus in South Korea.  As soon as they loosen the controls their numbers will go back up.  Then what are they going to do?  How long can you keep lockdowns in place across the world?  How often can you go back to the lockdown model?

SK isn't in lockdown. They've done highly targeted closures with massive testing, contact tracing, and mandatory quarantine for those who test positive.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/26/821688981/how-south-korea-reigned-in-the-outbreak-without-shutting-everything-down

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1 hour ago, GBL_Bills said:

South Korea already has demonstrated how to handle this. We just need to copy them as quickly and effectively as possible.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever get anywhere near being able to replicate what countries like South Korea have done. Our healthcare system is a mess and Covid-19 exposed it for what it is. U.S. healthcare needs to undergo a dramatic transformation in order to be better prepared in the future. 

Not to mention, the pandemic is going to force us as a nation to address some really tough questions about just how unhealthy we are collectively. Obesity, widespread hypertension, stress levels, co-morbid conditions, etc. are all significantly higher than our international counterparts, and we need to address this in a drastic way to mitigate the damage of future pandemics. Maybe this is a wake up call.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-obesity-top-factor-after-age-driving-nyc-hospitalization-2020-4

Future pandemics are going to happen, that is not a question. But preventative measures are things that we as a nation can actually control, if we have the collective will to make the necessary changes. Profit can no longer be the sole driving force in the healthcare system, since prevention usually has no business/profit model.

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5 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever get anywhere near being able to replicate what countries like South Korea have done. Our healthcare system is a mess and Covid-19 exposed it for what it is. U.S. healthcare needs to undergo a dramatic transformation in order to be better prepared in the future. 

Not to mention, the pandemic is going to force us as a nation to address some really tough questions about just how unhealthy we are collectively. Obesity, widespread hypertension, stress levels, co-morbid conditions, etc. are all significantly higher than our international counterparts, and we need to address this in a drastic way to mitigate the damage of future pandemics. Maybe this is a wake up call.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-obesity-top-factor-after-age-driving-nyc-hospitalization-2020-4

Future pandemics are going to happen, that is not a question. But preventative measures are things that we as a nation can actually control, if we have the collective will to make the necessary changes. Profit can no longer be the sole driving force in the healthcare system, since prevention usually has no business/profit model.

I probably should have ended the original post with "to the best of our ability."

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Also, Fauci's plan for bringing sports back is essentially a small scale version of what would be required on a larger, national level in order to re-open certain sectors of the economy. Namely, consistent, widespread testing. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2020/04/15/coronavirus-dr-fauci-sees-path-sports-comeback-without-fans/5136306002/

"Nobody comes to the stadiums. Put (athletes) in big hotels, wherever you want to play. Keep them very well-surveilled, but have them tested like every week and make sure they don't wind up infecting each other or their families and just let them play the season out." 

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6 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

SK isn't in lockdown. They've done highly targeted closures with massive testing, contact tracing, and mandatory quarantine for those who test positive.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/26/821688981/how-south-korea-reigned-in-the-outbreak-without-shutting-everything-down

They have basically become a police state when it comes to tracking people.  

Plus, they have the benefit of being a peninsula nation whose only land border just happens to be the most militarized border in the world.  That makes it much more possible to stop the virus from being reintroduced from other countries.

That kind of tracking of people would never fly in the US or Europe.  In addition, the US and Europe don't have the same advantages as South Korea when it come to control over who enters their countries.  

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7 minutes ago, brianstl said:

They have basically become a police state when it comes to tracking people.  

Plus, they have the benefit of being a peninsula nation whose only land border just happens to be the most militarized border in the world.  That makes it much more possible to stop the virus from being reintroduced from other countries.

That kind of tracking of people would never fly in the US or Europe.  In addition, the US and Europe don't have the same advantages as South Korea when it come to control over who enters their countries.  

At a minimum, this discussion highlights the difficulty going forward for the US. There isn’t an easy answer and we will pay for the sins of this administration’s handling of the situation. 

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1 hour ago, moytoy12 said:

Well, if it's within the context that they might die, then yes.  Also, if it's within the context that they might bring the virus home to their parents, then yes.  The thing about school, the economy, etc., we can bring those back.  We can't bring dead ppl back to life. 

I feel like this is the POV of someone without kids who gets his salary direct deposited whether he leaves the house or not.  I am not sure that is the case with you Moy.  

Anyone not in this situation cannot wait another month much less wait for a vaccine.

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24 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

I probably should have ended the original post with "to the best of our ability."

 

20 minutes ago, brianstl said:

They have basically become a police state when it comes to tracking people.  

Plus, they have the benefit of being a peninsula nation whose only land border just happens to be the most militarized border in the world.  That makes it much more possible to stop the virus from being reintroduced from other countries.

That kind of tracking of people would never fly in the US or Europe.  In addition, the US and Europe don't have the same advantages as South Korea when it come to control over who enters their countries.  

Germany has adopted a South Korea-lite approach and their numbers are much better than the other Western powers.  If that's the best that the rest of Europe and the US can do at the moment, then so be it. I agree with GBL, don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

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Just now, SLU_Nick said:

I feel like this is the POV of someone without kids who gets his salary direct deposited whether he leaves the house or not.  I am not sure that is the case with you Moy.  

Anyone not in this situation cannot wait another month much less wait for a vaccine.

1/2 right.  2 kids (12 and 9).  I do get my salary direct deposited regardless of whether I leave the house or not.  It’s admittedly a tough path forward. However, I believe “opening” this country prior to adequate testing and other measures is a recipe for disaster that will result in unnecessary deaths. People act we can just lock away the infected people without realizing we have no idea the scope of infection within our communities.

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And let’s not forget the lack of uniformity amongst our states/governors. If a portion of our country is to open with a highly contagious virus still infecting its population, then it doesn’t really matter what the rest of the country does.  Forgot where I saw it, but opening the country in such a patchwork fashion would be akin to having a smoking section on an airplane or a peeing section in the public pool.

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1 hour ago, moytoy12 said:

Would have been cool if POTUS had done something other than rallies and golfing during the month of February.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opinion/covid-social-distancing.html?smid=tw-share

i am not conceding that all Trump did in February was rallies and golf, but i am going to provide the link for the first recorded death from the chinese virus was Ferbruary 29th.   i.e. you are asking for around the clock action, closing down the world, making companies produce supplies and equipment in February and no one has even died at that point yet.   

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0229-COVID-19-first-death.html

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26 minutes ago, brianstl said:

They have basically become a police state when it comes to tracking people.  

Plus, they have the benefit of being a peninsula nation whose only land border just happens to be the most militarized border in the world.  That makes it much more possible to stop the virus from being reintroduced from other countries.

That kind of tracking of people would never fly in the US or Europe.  In addition, the US and Europe don't have the same advantages as South Korea when it come to control over who enters their countries.  

Valid points all around. I still think we should be using them as a road map though.

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26 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever get anywhere near being able to replicate what countries like South Korea have done. Our healthcare system is a mess and Covid-19 exposed it for what it is. U.S. healthcare needs to undergo a dramatic transformation in order to be better prepared in the future. 

Not to mention, the pandemic is going to force us as a nation to address some really tough questions about just how unhealthy we are collectively. Obesity, widespread hypertension, stress levels, co-morbid conditions, etc. are all significantly higher than our international counterparts, and we need to address this in a drastic way to mitigate the damage of future pandemics. Maybe this is a wake up call.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-obesity-top-factor-after-age-driving-nyc-hospitalization-2020-4

Future pandemics are going to happen, that is not a question. But preventative measures are things that we as a nation can actually control, if we have the collective will to make the necessary changes. Profit can no longer be the sole driving force in the healthcare system, since prevention usually has no business/profit model.

This is an issue, but I think when we really have an understanding of who died and why from this virus it isn't going to be as big of a factor as would be expected.  Just compare France and Germany.  France is a younger and thinner country, but the death per million rate in France is almost six times that of Germany.  

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23 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

 

Germany has adopted a South Korea-lite approach and their numbers are much better than the other Western powers.  If that's the best that the rest of Europe and the US can do at the moment, then so be it. I agree with GBL, don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

Germany has a higher infection rate than France, but has almost a fifth less deaths despite having a larger population, being older and fatter than France.  That tells me that genetics might be playing a big role.  Certain population groups might be more genetically susceptible to the worst outcomes of this virus.

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We are going to need to open the economy/country before we are actually ready or before it's 100% (or even 80%) safe but I do hope that places that have the ability for remote work continue to utilize that regularly. We need to get back to normal but it can't be the old normal

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17 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i am not conceding that all Trump did in February was rallies and golf, but i am going to provide the link for the first recorded death from the chinese virus was Ferbruary 29th.   i.e. you are asking for around the clock action, closing down the world, making companies produce supplies and equipment in February and no one has even died at that point yet.   

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0229-COVID-19-first-death.html

If you're waiting until the first american death to start preparing/bracing for a pandemic, you aren't acting soon enough. We had the "benefit" of 2 months of spread in China and other countries prior to an American dying to prepare, we just didn't take advantage of it.

*and yes I know we restricted travel with China near the end of Jan or early Feb. I believe we were the 45th country in the world to announce it so good job by us 

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Just now, glazedandconfused said:

If you're waiting until the first american death to start preparing/bracing for a pandemic, you aren't acting soon enough. We have the benefit of 2 months of spread in China and other countries prior to an American dying. 

so spend trillions of dollars and agree to destroy the economy with a shut down order before even one death.    if President Trump had did that the country would have went nuts.    

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6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

so spend trillions of dollars and agree to destroy the economy with a shut down order before even one death.    if President Trump had did that the country would have went nuts.    

There is middle ground between what i said “preparing/bracing for a pandemic” and “spend trillions of dollars and agree to destroy the economy with a shutdown”

 

You do see how those aren’t the same thing right? 

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6 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

There is middle ground between what i said “preparing/bracing for a pandemic” and “spend trillions of dollars and agree to destroy the economy with a shutdown”

 

You do see how those aren’t the same thing right? 

I give you credit for lasting this whole thread and still trying to convince Billiken Roy ...it hasn't happened on any topic for a decade so your persistence is amazing

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23 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

 

*and yes I know we restricted travel with China near the end of Jan or early Feb. I believe we were the 45th country in the world to announce it so good job by us 

And yet, tens of thousands of folks from China still came to our country after the "shut down".  

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