Jump to content

SLU & NCAA Corona Virus Discussion


Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I guess I really struggle with the part in bold. The current lock-down doesn't seem so bad because the Federal Government has been able to step-in and make most people and companies "whole" with lost wages and earnings for 2 months. The government can't do this for 18 months. The system will break and the financial repercussions will be larger than can be imagined. Runaway inflation because the Feds are printing money, life savings wiped out, off the charts unemployment, despair, criminal activity, etc. Pick your favorite end of the world movie and it's what will happen if this goes on indefinitely.

This sounds mean but if it's a choice between 18 months of this and ripping off the bandaid and the virus running wild for a couple months, I think most of America is for ripping off the bandaid. Old people should stay in the house. The rest of us can get it, the vast majority will be fine and based on most indications we won't be at risk for getting it again soon and won't be contagious.

The good news is the decision doesn't have to be made now and the next month can be used to test whether moderate steps to get back to normal work without a major backslide. If it doesn't though, I think September is a line drawn in the sand time period as kids need to get back to school.

I want to say to "struggle" with this issue is ok, but it's really not.  We're talking lives.  "Opening" up society is going to cause a lot of problems and death.  "Ripping off the bandaid" means killing A LOT of people.  You're ok with that?  You're ok with potentially 100k-1mm ppl dying because...economy?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 2.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Doesn't matter what America decides if the rest of the world's economies are shut down.  Our trading partners and much of our manufacturing capacity are outside the United States.  We are all in this together, whether we like it or not.  

I don't think you heard, America has total authority. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Just gonna say, if the US continues to have a white supremacist at the helm...we gonna fail. 

I wasn't going to post it here, but thought this hellhole of a thread is enough of a dumpster fire - I quote tweeted a reply to a West Pine Bills tweet from a Miz writer (He blocked me afterward). Boy is it a doozy:

2437AD92-7723-4F85-A037-DB175224D77B.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, moytoy12 said:

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying here.  But, do we want those 600k-2mm deaths within weeks or months?  Because if you're ok with opening everything up, then you accept the possibility of a lot of death within weeks (which I suspect would be a lot more than 2mm).  A lot of deaths within weeks does more to paralyze the world (morally, economically, etc) than the current lock down.  

Also, based on this, Old Guy's 26k isn't going to be close to the 600k-2mm that you posit will die.  Only pointing this out because you said yesterday that Old Guy would be closer to the estimate than others and I think that is untrue. 

All this being said, what are your thoughts on moving forward?  Genuinely interested in what you think because I sincerely respect your opinion and, quite frankly, I don't have a good answer to the question.  

I was holding on to the hope that we really could contain this virus.  We have surprisingly done a very effective job of flattening the curve and didn't want to admit the reality of what is actually still going to happen.  All of the models are BS because they all have us reaching zero deaths and that is a flat out lie even under the lockdowns.  

We can't keep society shutdown.  It just won't work.  We will have riots in the streets if this goes on for months.  Plus, people will start ignoring all recommendations if they don't start to see a result for following the recommendations.  Fear will only control people for a limited time.  

Political leaders and healthcare experts across the political spectrum are doing the public a disservice by refusing to admit the reality of the situation.  This shutdown is only about buying time to deal with what is actually coming.  It is about getting enough equipment and beds to deal with what we are actually going to have to deal with.  The longer they refuse to admit or in some cases state what they already personally accepted to be the case, the more the public will tune them out when they actually do.  

The sooner we admit what the actual situation is and open up society again, the better off we are going to be.  The longer we go without that kind of honesty and keep society shut down, the more likely a breakdown in society is going to occur.  Despite what people think about people with different political views, people across the political spectrum aren't stupid. On the whole they are resilient and can handle the truth.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I was holding on to the hope that we really could contain this virus.  We have surprisingly done a very effective job of flattening the curve and didn't want to admit the reality of what is actually still going to happen.  All of the models are BS because they all have us reaching zero deaths and that is a flat out lie even under the lockdowns.  

We can't keep society shutdown.  It just won't work.  We will have riots in the streets if this goes on for months.  Plus, people will start ignoring all recommendations if they don't start to see a result for following the recommendations.  Fear will only control people for a limited time.  

Political leaders and healthcare experts across the political spectrum are doing the public a disservice by refusing to admit the reality of the situation.  This shutdown is only about buying time to deal with what is actually coming.  It is about getting enough equipment and beds to deal with what we are actually going to have to deal with.  The longer they refuse to admit or in some cases state what they already personally accepted to be the case, the more the public will tune them out when they actually do.  

The sooner we admit what the actual situation is and open up society again, the better off we are going to be.  The longer we go without that kind of honesty and keep society shut down, the more likely a breakdown in society is going to occur.  Despite what people think about people with different political views, people across the political spectrum aren't stupid. On the whole they are resilient and can handle the truth.

 

The goal isn't to keep society shutdown until there are 0 deaths. We just can't go back to complete normalcy without effective testing, a vaccine, and a better understanding in how to treat the virus. The world will open before the virus is erradicated, because that isn't going to happen, there are a few things that need to happen first. This isn't a black/white issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, brianstl said:

I was holding on to the hope that we really could contain this virus.  We have surprisingly done a very effective job of flattening the curve and didn't want to admit the reality of what is actually still going to happen.  All of the models are BS because they all have us reaching zero deaths and that is a flat out lie even under the lockdowns.  

We can't keep society shutdown.  It just won't work.  We will have riots in the streets if this goes on for months.  Plus, people will start ignoring all recommendations if they don't start to see a result for following the recommendations.  Fear will only control people for a limited time.  

Political leaders and healthcare experts across the political spectrum are doing the public a disservice by refusing to admit the reality of the situation.  This shutdown is only about buying time to deal with what is actually coming.  It is about getting enough equipment and beds to deal with what we are actually going to have to deal with.  The longer they refuse to admit or in some cases state what they already personally accepted to be the case, the more the public will tune them out when they actually do.  

The sooner we admit what the actual situation is and open up society again, the better off we are going to be.  The longer we go without that kind of honesty and keep society shut down, the more likely a breakdown in society is going to occur.  Despite what people think about people with different political views, people across the political spectrum aren't stupid. On the whole they are resilient and can handle the truth.

 

I agree with the bolded portion.  It'd be nice if we had a national leader state this.  I'm calling on you Trump, Biden, Obama, Cruz, etc...any of you mofos can state this and take this reasoned position.

However, opening up society (whatever that may mean), isn't the answer.  It just isn't.  Not at this time.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bleedtheblue said:

The goal isn't to keep society shutdown until there are 0 deaths. We just can't go back to complete normalcy without effective testing, a vaccine, and a better understanding in how to treat the virus. The world will open before the virus is erradicated, because that isn't going to happen, there are a few things that need to happen first. This isn't a black/white issue.

This.  It seems pretty basic that at a minimum we need massive testing.  You know why we don't have that right now?  POTUS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

I agree with the bolded portion.  It'd be nice if we had a national leader state this.  I'm calling on you Trump, Biden, Obama, Cruz, etc...any of you mofos can state this and take this reasoned position.

However, opening up society (whatever that may mean), isn't the answer.  It just isn't.  Not at this time.  

When then?

You waiting 18 months for a vaccine? What happens when the government checks dry up and people still are told they can't go to work?

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I was holding on to the hope that we really could contain this virus.  We have surprisingly done a very effective job of flattening the curve and didn't want to admit the reality of what is actually still going to happen.  All of the models are BS because they all have us reaching zero deaths and that is a flat out lie even under the lockdowns.  

We can't keep society shutdown.  It just won't work.  We will have riots in the streets if this goes on for months.  Plus, people will start ignoring all recommendations if they don't start to see a result for following the recommendations.  Fear will only control people for a limited time.  

Political leaders and healthcare experts across the political spectrum are doing the public a disservice by refusing to admit the reality of the situation.  This shutdown is only about buying time to deal with what is actually coming.  It is about getting enough equipment and beds to deal with what we are actually going to have to deal with.  The longer they refuse to admit or in some cases state what they already personally accepted to be the case, the more the public will tune them out when they actually do.  

The sooner we admit what the actual situation is and open up society again, the better off we are going to be.  The longer we go without that kind of honesty and keep society shut down, the more likely a breakdown in society is going to occur.  Despite what people think about people with different political views, people across the political spectrum aren't stupid. On the whole they are resilient and can handle the truth.

 

You're swinging from one end of the expectation pendulum to the other.  We don't know the answer to our current problem.  But some country other than the US may develop an answer or at least a short term workaround. I vote we give the world's braniacs time to figure out something before we have world leaders introduce a totally different narrative.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bleedtheblue said:

The goal isn't to keep society shutdown until there are 0 deaths. We just can't go back to complete normalcy without effective testing, a vaccine, and a better understanding in how to treat the virus. The world will open before the virus is erradicated, because that isn't going to happen, there are a few things that need to happen first. This isn't a black/white issue.

I didn't say soon meant right at this moment.  At the beginning of this thread I was calling for the actions we have in place right now.  That said we need the planning that has now started on opening back up.  The sooner we actually open back up with an honest discussion of what is going to follow that the better.

The longer we go without those things, the more likely we are going to have a breakdown of any order.  That will create a worse situation than anything we are currently facing.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I didn't say soon meant right at this moment.  At the beginning of this thread I was calling for the actions we have in place right now.  That said we need the planning that has now started on opening back up.  The sooner we actually open back up with an honest discussion of what is going to follow that the better.

The longer we go without those things, the more likely we are going to have a breakdown of any order.  That will create a worse situation than anything we are currently facing.

 

Gotcha. I misunderstood.

I still don't think an effective opening back up can occur without planning that contains significant amounts of testing. An honest discussion isn't worth much, and frankly I don't feel like an honest discussion is going to be coming from the federal level anytime soon (political views aside)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

36 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

I want to say to "struggle" with this issue is ok, but it's really not.  We're talking lives.  "Opening" up society is going to cause a lot of problems and death.  "Ripping off the bandaid" means killing A LOT of people.  You're ok with that?  You're ok with potentially 100k-1mm ppl dying because...economy?  

Honest question: you good with telling the kids of America that there is no school in 2020-21 and that they need to be home-schooled for the duration of that time period. Knowing how many of those kids depend on school for food, social development, education, etc?

September is the line in the sand for these drastic measures.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, kshoe said:

When then?

You waiting 18 months for a vaccine? What happens when the government checks dry up and people still are told they can't go to work?

This is the million dollar question and I don't know the answer.  My best guess is to say not now or within the next couple of weeks and also not 18 mos from now.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, kshoe said:

 

Honest question: you good with telling the kids of America that there is no school in 2020-21 and that they need to be home-schooled for the duration of that time period. Knowing how many of those kids depend on school for food, social development, education, etc?

September is the line in the sand for these drastic measures.

Well, if it's within the context that they might die, then yes.  Also, if it's within the context that they might bring the virus home to their parents, then yes.  The thing about school, the economy, etc., we can bring those back.  We can't bring dead ppl back to life. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, kshoe said:

 

Honest question: you good with telling the kids of America that there is no school in 2020-21 and that they need to be home-schooled for the duration of that time period. Knowing how many of those kids depend on school for food, social development, education, etc?

September is the line in the sand for these drastic measures.

I would rather us come up with a way to provide these services than jam 30 kids in a classroom without having some form of vaccination/testing/protocol to follow.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I didn't say soon meant right at this moment.  At the beginning of this thread I was calling for the actions we have in place right now.  That said we need the planning that has now started on opening back up.  The sooner we actually open back up with an honest discussion of what is going to follow that the better.

The longer we go without those things, the more likely we are going to have a breakdown of any order.  That will create a worse situation than anything we are currently facing.

 

I agree.  I also agree with @bleedthebluethat we won't get this honest discussion from the White House.

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, kshoe said:

When then?

You waiting 18 months for a vaccine? What happens when the government checks dry up and people still are told they can't go to work?

Once we get widespread testing so we can find out who all has the disease and get them properly separated from society until they are no longer able to pass the illness on and once we get everyone tested for antibodies, then we can make an intelligent decision about how to proceed - such as who can go back and what should work places look like - such as restaurants decreasing the number of tables they serve and office workers perhaps working on an A/B schedule as examples.  We know what needs to be done the question is will the government actually do it?  The longer the government puts this off the longer it will take to reopen so to speak.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Once we get widespread testing so we can find out who all has the disease and get them properly separated from society until they are no longer able to pass the illness on and once we get everyone tested for antibodies, then we can make an intelligent decision about how to proceed - such as who can go back and what should work places look like - such as restaurants decreasing the number of tables they serve and office workers perhaps working on an A/B schedule as examples.  We know what needs to be done the question is will the government actually do it?  The longer the government puts this off the longer it will take to reopen so to speak.

Agreed. But let's be honest, this administration has no interest in widespread testing.  At a certain point, we need to realized that the Administration's "mistakes" are actually intentional actions.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, cheeseman said:

Once we get widespread testing so we can find out who all has the disease and get them properly separated from society until they are no longer able to pass the illness on and once we get everyone tested for antibodies, then we can make an intelligent decision about how to proceed - such as who can go back and what should work places look like - such as restaurants decreasing the number of tables they serve and office workers perhaps working on an A/B schedule as examples.  We know what needs to be done the question is will the government actually do it?  The longer the government puts this off the longer it will take to reopen so to speak.

Stop right now with this BS.  You aren't ever going to be able to tell people they can't go back to work/society because they haven't gotten sick and lack antibodies.  You want riots and dead people in the streets?  That will get you riots and dead people in the streets.

That stuff is all fantasy talk and is just a refusal to admit to the situation we are actually facing.  Plus, we have no clue how long the antibodies stay present in someone's system.  So far it appears that it varies greatly from person to person.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, brianstl said:

Stop right now with this BS.  You aren't ever going to be able to tell people they can't go back to work/society because they haven't gotten sick and lack antibodies.  You want riots and dead people in the streets?  That will get you riots and dead people in the streets.

That stuff is all fantasy talk and is just a refusal to admit to the situation we are actually facing.  Plus, we have no clue how long the antibodies stay present in someone's system.  So far it appears that it varies greatly from person to person.

Do you disagree with the argument that widespread testing is needed asap? Not necessarily talking about antibodies, but just testing for the virus.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, GBL_Bills said:

South Korea already has demonstrated how to handle this. We just need to copy them as quickly and effectively as possible.

Hmmm...not sure about this.  I think we should forget about testing, go with herd immunity and decline to fund the WHO during a pandemic.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Would have been cool if POTUS had done something other than rallies and golfing during the month of February.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opinion/covid-social-distancing.html?smid=tw-share

Well he did that because he didn't want to accept Peloses invite to China town on 2-24-2020.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

South Korea already has demonstrated how to handle this. We just need to copy them as quickly and effectively as possible.

The best thing Europe can do is ramp up their testing and isolation process to emulate South Korea.  If we're the only major country still crippled by  the pandemic in the fall, this adminstration will be under enormous economic and political pressures from its trading partners to fall in line.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...