Jump to content

Transfers and grad transfers - 2020


Recommended Posts

23 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:

It may tick up slightly with the proposed rule change, but we won’t see a mass exodus of our best players every year. That’s my main point.

I think that this is being naive.  By the college basketball realizes that it will really hurt programs like SLU, it will be very much too late.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 855
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

21 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Yuri and Hargrove each have a chip on their shoulder.  They'd rather kick the elites a$$ than play for them.  You'll find that a lot of the radar kids in the StL are like that.

Then why does every local kid who gets an offer to play at Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, go there?  Seriously, every damn one.  Why would it be different it they spent the first two years of college at SLU?  I wouldn't fault, let's say, Perkins at all if he could transfer without sitting out a a year, for switching to Duke if he thought he could showcase his skills more there and improve his chances of getting drafted.  I wouldn't fault any of our kids for doing that.  Their dream is to play in the NBA.  If transferring gives them the best chance to do that, in their mind, or if they are sold that by Coach K, or Self, or Izzo, or whoever, then they are going to leave.  It is silly to think they are going to stay "loyal" to SLU at the expense of their dreams.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Then why does every local kid who gets an offer to play at Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, go there?  Seriously, every damn one.  Why would it be different it they spent the first two years of college at SLU?  I wouldn't fault, let's say, Perkins at all if he could transfer without sitting out a a year, for switching to Duke if he thought he could showcase his skills more there and improve his chances of getting drafted.  I wouldn't fault any of our kids for doing that.  Their dream is to play in the NBA.  If transferring gives them the best chance to do that, in their mind, or if they are sold that by Coach K, or Self, or Izzo, or whoever, then they are going to leave.  It is silly to think they are going to stay "loyal" to SLU at the expense of their dreams.

Because those 4-5 kids were already fans of those particular teams in junior high.  Believe it or not, not every kid is a fan of those three programs. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Because those 4-5 kids were already fans of those particular teams in junior high.  Believe it or not, not every kid is a fan of those three programs. 

I'm sorry, but 100% of kids from St. Louis that have an opportunity to go to an elite program end up there, including those whose parents when to SLU.  That's not because everyone of them was a huge North Carolina fan when they were little.  It is because everyone of them see it equally as a huge status symbol type statement that they are going to that school and as the best opportunity to make it to the NBA.  Again, I don't fault them for that, but saying that kids who start here won't transfer if given the opportunity to do so easily, is incorrect.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

I edited my previous post to remove unpaid, it wasn't my intention to make that the focus of the discussion. I fully understand the position of you and others who don't want to hear that these guys are not compensated. My intentions were not to disrespect anyone when I wrote that, so I certainly apologize for how it came across.

It's not that we don't want to hear that they are not compensated. It's that they are compensated and compensated better 95% + could be compensated anywhere in the world at their skill level. 

No need for an apologize though, you didn't say anything that would require an apology imo. You simply stated your opinion. 

To me it is simple. We have an organization and you get this in return for this. Here are the rules, do you want to join or don't you.  Now I think rules need to be fairer to players, but schools invest a lot of time and money into the academic and athletic development of these athletes. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've said this before, and taken heat, but I'll say it again.  We as a society need to come to the realization that college sports needs to be for kids who want to get an education and that pro sports need to create a better avenue for kids that don't necessarily want to go that route so they can still have the opportunity to get to the pros.  The NFL and NBA use college football and basketball as their minor leagues.  It saves them a ton of money and gets a lot of exposure for their future rookies.  The downside is that kids are forced into college when that is not what they want.  IT IS THIS FACT THAT IS THE EVIL HERE.  Not the NCAA, the universities, or the coaches.  The NCAA is put in a hard place where they have to make rules that are fair to the competitive nature of sports while also trying to be fair to the "student" athletes.  The universities and coaches can't be faulted for trying to make money when the situation creates the ability for them to do just that.

The NFL and NBA should be forced to create a minor league system that takes kids directly out of high school.  If you decide to go to college, then you can't be drafted until after your third year.  This would result in kids having to make a very realistic decision.  Do I want to go pro or do I want to commit to playing in college?  Now, everyone comes in with eyes wide open.  There are no more arguments about colleges taking advantage of poor student athletes by paying them $200,000.00 in tuition and room and board.  The kids get to make the decision about what they want, rather than having no decision because the big sports leagues like the present situation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Then why does every local kid who gets an offer to play at Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, go there?  Seriously, every damn one.  Why would it be different it they spent the first two years of college at SLU?  I wouldn't fault, let's say, Perkins at all if he could transfer without sitting out a a year, for switching to Duke if he thought he could showcase his skills more there and improve his chances of getting drafted.  I wouldn't fault any of our kids for doing that.  Their dream is to play in the NBA.  If transferring gives them the best chance to do that, in their mind, or if they are sold that by Coach K, or Self, or Izzo, or whoever, then they are going to leave.  It is silly to think they are going to stay "loyal" to SLU at the expense of their dreams.

I agree with you and tried to make your points earlier in this thread. I believe it is a bad proposal for the majority of programs and would be bad for a program like a SLU. The big boys would pick over the A-10 like vultures. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know how many athletic departments make money? How many would make money if they were charged for Tuition, room, board, etc..? 

Are schools actually getting rich off the backs of student athletes? 

Who pays for the softball player? The cross country runner? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Does anyone know how many athletic departments make money? How many would make money if they were charged for Tuition, room, board, etc..? 

Are schools actually getting rich off the backs of student athletes? 

Who pays for the softball player? The cross country runner? 

Yes, schools are getting rich off of D1 Football Players and some D1 Basketball Players. That is why they can afford to pay coaches such outlandish salaries. There is perhaps no other industry in the United States with such a lucrative compensation structure. That is why the NCAA is in front of congress. That is why they are paying hundreds of millions in lawsuits over what amounts to unfair compensation practices. The reason that athletes can’t make that much money doing other things is because they are not operating in an open market.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, and taken heat, but I'll say it again.  We as a society need to come to the realization that college sports needs to be for kids who want to get an education and that pro sports need to create a better avenue for kids that don't necessarily want to go that route so they can still have the opportunity to get to the pros.  The NFL and NBA use college football and basketball as their minor leagues.  It saves them a ton of money and gets a lot of exposure for their future rookies.  The downside is that kids are forced into college when that is not what they want.  IT IS THIS FACT THAT IS THE EVIL HERE.  Not the NCAA, the universities, or the coaches.  The NCAA is put in a hard place where they have to make rules that are fair to the competitive nature of sports while also trying to be fair to the "student" athletes.  The universities and coaches can't be faulted for trying to make money when the situation creates they ability for them to do just that.

The NFL and NBA should be forced to create a minor league system that takes kids directly out of high school.  If you decide to go to college, then you can't be drafted until after your third year.  This would result in kids having to make a very realistic decision.  Do I want to go pro or do I want to commit to playing in college?  Now, everyone comes in with eyes wide open.  There are no more arguments about colleges taking advantage of poor student athletes by paying them $200,000.00 in tuition and room and board.  The kids get to make the decision about what they want, rather than having no decision because the big sports leagues like the present situation.

I clicked the “Good Post” thing, but I wanted to compliment this post again. Well done.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Does anyone know how many athletic departments make money? How many would make money if they were charged for Tuition, room, board, etc..? 

Are schools actually getting rich off the backs of student athletes? 

Who pays for the softball player? The cross country runner? 

I get where you’re coming from. Lots of schools are not making money. Lots of players would not be worth more than the value of a scholarship and related fees, even in a free market. But the industry as a whole is profiting off of student athletes. That’s where the legal issues lie, that’s where the unfair practices lie. The vast majority of kids who have come through SLU are not victims, and nobody here needs to feel sorry for them. But the current system is not going to hold because we as a country have decided to turn amateur sports into professional sports.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the one and done rule is dropped, this proposed no sit rule will make mid majors the minor leagues for the P5 elites. All the gems in the rough finds of the mids will get plucked. This should be obvious to the most casual observer. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, NH said:

I get where you’re coming from. Lots of schools are not making money. Lots of players would not be worth more than the value of a scholarship and related fees, even in a free market. But the industry as a whole is profiting off of student athletes. That’s where the legal issues lie, that’s where the unfair practices lie. The vast majority of kids who have come through SLU are not victims, and nobody here needs to feel sorry for them. But the current system is not going to hold because we as a country have decided to turn amateur sports into professional sports.

Yes.  The current system is to blame.  But paying the players and allowing college free agency every year (which even the pros doesn't have) is doubling down on that bad system.  That's a terrible way to try to fix the problem.  Instead, let's change the bad system.

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, and taken heat, but I'll say it again.  We as a society need to come to the realization that college sports needs to be for kids who want to get an education and that pro sports need to create a better avenue for kids that don't necessarily want to go that route so they can still have the opportunity to get to the pros.  The NFL and NBA use college football and basketball as their minor leagues.  It saves them a ton of money and gets a lot of exposure for their future rookies.  The downside is that kids are forced into college when that is not what they want.  IT IS THIS FACT THAT IS THE EVIL HERE.  Not the NCAA, the universities, or the coaches.  The NCAA is put in a hard place where they have to make rules that are fair to the competitive nature of sports while also trying to be fair to the "student" athletes.  The universities and coaches can't be faulted for trying to make money when the situation creates they ability for them to do just that.

The NFL and NBA should be forced to create a minor league system that takes kids directly out of high school.  If you decide to go to college, then you can't be drafted until after your third year.  This would result in kids having to make a very realistic decision.  Do I want to go pro or do I want to commit to playing in college?  Now, everyone comes in with eyes wide open.  There are no more arguments about colleges taking advantage of poor student athletes by paying them $200,000.00 in tuition and room and board.  The kids get to make the decision about what they want, rather than having no decision because the big sports leagues like the present situation.

-I share a lot of your view and disagree on parts

-the NBA has the G League, the NFL has nothing that I know of, not sure the NCAA can do anything to MAKE either change behavior, the NCAA could go much further in academic standards for student-athletes but seem to have concluded that is not their mission (see UNC)

-if the NCAA wanted to drive pro sports leagues nuts they could do away with scouts at games (not sure how that would work in football since the bowl games are independent from the NCAA)

-I don't know if the NCAA is as corrupt as I think the IOC is, but it sure exhibits a lot of time behavior pointing that it is and it is this behavior, and in some instances lack of behavior, that has put the NCAA in a bed of its own making to which they will make more bad decisions and make that bed even more uncomfortable 

-how is that KU investigation going? oh, swept under the rug, I get it, it's KU

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, and taken heat, but I'll say it again.  We as a society need to come to the realization that college sports needs to be for kids who want to get an education and that pro sports need to create a better avenue for kids that don't necessarily want to go that route so they can still have the opportunity to get to the pros.  The NFL and NBA use college football and basketball as their minor leagues.  It saves them a ton of money and gets a lot of exposure for their future rookies.  The downside is that kids are forced into college when that is not what they want.  IT IS THIS FACT THAT IS THE EVIL HERE.  Not the NCAA, the universities, or the coaches.  The NCAA is put in a hard place where they have to make rules that are fair to the competitive nature of sports while also trying to be fair to the "student" athletes.  The universities and coaches can't be faulted for trying to make money when the situation creates the ability for them to do just that.

The NFL and NBA should be forced to create a minor league system that takes kids directly out of high school.  If you decide to go to college, then you can't be drafted until after your third year.  This would result in kids having to make a very realistic decision.  Do I want to go pro or do I want to commit to playing in college?  Now, everyone comes in with eyes wide open.  There are no more arguments about colleges taking advantage of poor student athletes by paying them $200,000.00 in tuition and room and board.  The kids get to make the decision about what they want, rather than having no decision because the big sports leagues like the present situation.

Good post.  Also, looks like the NBA/G-league is trying to create a more enticing developmental program for kids who want to bypass college.  Interesting story embedded in the tweet below.  This kid will get $500k for participating in the year long program.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Good post.  Also, looks like the NBA/G-league is trying to create a more enticing developmental program for kids who want to bypass college.  Interesting story embedded in the tweet below.  This kid will get $500k for participating in the year long program.

 

The G League becoming a viable option for high school players would be much worse for SLU than this transfer rule.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, NH said:

The G League becoming a viable option for high school players would be much worse for SLU than this transfer rule.

How many players do you think are good enough to go to the G league right out of HS? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, NH said:

The G League becoming a viable option for high school players would be much worse for SLU than this transfer rule.

Disagree. I am with Roy on this. If a kid isn’t interested in an education we should not want him. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, NH said:

The G League becoming a viable option for high school players would be much worse for SLU than this transfer rule.

Just the opposite. One and doners going to the G makes good mid major players that more enticing to the elites. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

How many players do you think are good enough to go to the G league right out of HS? 

skip, if they are good enough to get drafted they would be good enough to play in the G league imo.  if they wont get drafted, the G League for high schoolers isnt going to happen imo.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

How many players do you think are good enough to go to the G league right out of HS? 

Additionally, how many of these players are going to get 6 figures from the developmental program? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, slu72 said:

Just the opposite. One and doners going to the G makes good mid major players that more enticing to the elites. 

That is not the opposite. One and doners going to the G-League makes the elite recruit that next wave of players out of high school. The overall talent pool shrinking squeezes mid-majors. All of a sudden it becomes a lot more competitive to recruit the Jordan Goodwins and Hasahn Frenches of the world. That in turn also makes it harder to recruit the Gibson Jimerson and Yuri Collins level prospects. I agree with your overall premise.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, and taken heat, but I'll say it again.  We as a society need to come to the realization that college sports needs to be for kids who want to get an education and that pro sports need to create a better avenue for kids that don't necessarily want to go that route so they can still have the opportunity to get to the pros.  The NFL and NBA use college football and basketball as their minor leagues.  It saves them a ton of money and gets a lot of exposure for their future rookies.  The downside is that kids are forced into college when that is not what they want.  IT IS THIS FACT THAT IS THE EVIL HERE.  Not the NCAA, the universities, or the coaches.  The NCAA is put in a hard place where they have to make rules that are fair to the competitive nature of sports while also trying to be fair to the "student" athletes.  The universities and coaches can't be faulted for trying to make money when the situation creates the ability for them to do just that.

The NFL and NBA should be forced to create a minor league system that takes kids directly out of high school.  If you decide to go to college, then you can't be drafted until after your third year.  This would result in kids having to make a very realistic decision.  Do I want to go pro or do I want to commit to playing in college?  Now, everyone comes in with eyes wide open.  There are no more arguments about colleges taking advantage of poor student athletes by paying them $200,000.00 in tuition and room and board.  The kids get to make the decision about what they want, rather than having no decision because the big sports leagues like the present situation.

Good post, but I believe the NFL already prohibits players from being eligible for their league until they've been out of high school for three years.  And it's not viable for them to allow younger athletes to compete, because they are not physically ready for the NFL.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

I'm sorry, but 100% of kids from St. Louis that have an opportunity to go to an elite program end up there, including those whose parents when to SLU.  That's not because everyone of them was a huge North Carolina fan when they were little.  It is because everyone of them see it equally as a huge status symbol type statement that they are going to that school and as the best opportunity to make it to the NBA.  Again, I don't fault them for that, but saying that kids who start here won't transfer if given the opportunity to do so easily, is incorrect.

Might we be 4getting a legend whose local child may someday be coveted?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...