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Fred Thatch, Jr

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Man, I opened this thread thinking it was going to be great news. 

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Per Instagram, FT traveled with the team to Davidson.  His situation is different from a traditional medical redshirt. I have no doubt the NCAA screws us over somehow.  

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1 minute ago, moytoy12 said:

Per Instagram, FT traveled with the team to Davidson.  His situation is different from a traditional medical redshirt. I have no doubt the NCAA screws us over somehow.  

crazy to think 2 of of our top 7 players may both have medical redshirts.  90% of teams with this = complete disaster

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I hope he applies and get a medical redshirt.  His level of conditioning can't be great at this point.  Seems like a waste to use up this season with what, 13 - 15 games left?  His impact would be minimal this year, my opinion. 

If Fred recovers fully love the roster next year. Nice class spread.  Question Hankton for next year.  Looks like a bust to me.  But, maybe he surprises and stays and has "Conklin Summer".  But if he goes would love a shooting JC or grad transfer big + best available guard (PG or combo guard).

  • Perkins, Goodwin, French
  • Jacobs, Hankton?
  • Collins, Hargrove, Bell, Diarra, Thatch
  • Jimerson, Strickland 

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7 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

I hope he applies and get a medical redshirt.  His level of conditioning can't be great at this point.  Seems like a waste to use up this season with what, 13 - 15 games left?  His impact would be minimal this year, my opinion. 

If Fred recovers fully love the roster next year. Nice class spread.  Question Hankton for next year.  Looks like a bust to me.  But, maybe he surprises and stays and has "Conklin Summer".  But if he goes would love a shooting JC or grad transfer big + best available guard (PG or combo guard).

  • Perkins, Goodwin, French
  • Jacobs, Hankton?
  • Collins, Hargrove, Bell, Diarra
  • Thatch, Jimerson, Strickland 

Thatch would be a sophomore 

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Thatch redshirting doesn't help balance the classes, but I dont think that is the real question. The real question is will Fred be able to ever play again? I pray he recovers and is able to play again. Given what has been posted about his condition, I question whether it's a good idea for him to even try to come back this season.  

 

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2 hours ago, Spoonball18 said:

I don’t trust the NCAA to do the right thing EVER.

-this

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Keep in mind that Thatch can't be given a medical redshirt unless a doctor signs off on a diagnosis that prevents him from playing the rest of the year. With his situation still uncertain, a doctor can't say that yet.

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16 hours ago, moytoy12 said:

Per Instagram, FT traveled with the team to Davidson.  His situation is different from a traditional medical redshirt. I have no doubt the NCAA screws us over somehow.  

Obviously I'm hoping for the best which may be medical redshirt and 3 healthy/productive years after.  But honestly, at this point for Fred's sake I just hope he/we get the opportunity to be screwed over by the NCAA.  It seems like he's very realistically looking at the possibility of not being able to play at all anymore.

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I will disagree with you in this regard Pistol. It all depends on what the Dr. is certifying. If a specialist in myopathies was to be asked if Thatch can play a full game in a competitive environment, or even half a game, they would be likely to give some roundabout parlance basically saying they cannot say if this level of play will be possible at this time. If asked to provide a certification he cannot play they will probably do it. If they will not do this, you can be absolutely assured that some MD somewhere with a pile of Board Certifications will do it. These MDs are generally available through plaintiff lawyers. This should clean the way out. Most Dr's certifications about inability or incapacity to do something are not written in stone, they are just their personal opinion plus a statement they are willing to go to court and testify what they say is correct under oath and defend their point of view. I am absolutely certain that a specialist can be found to certify Thatch has a medical condition that will impede him from playing for the rest of the season, once Ford and Thatch decide this is the way to go.

There is nothing written in stone, when viewed from a medical viewpoint, regarding disability. As a matter of fact, Drs. do not determine disability, what they determine is the extent of limitations present in a particular case. Yes, I am aware that Drs. think it is up to them to decide whether someone is disabled or not, but this is just not the case. The actual disability determination is an administrative and legal decision regarding the level of limitations determined by the Drs, and how these limitations fit the "disability" status or definition applicable to the specific case (whether NCAA's, Social Security, or a private disability coverage is the source providing the definition of disability to be used in the case). These determinations are very frequently the causes of court disputes. I have served as an expert witness in cases like these, primarily on the defense (insurance) side.

What I have given above is not a medical definition of disability, it is a medico-legal definition as it is in use by organizations and companies providing benefits (in the case of the NCAA the benefit is the redshirt and the extension of the eligibility status) of some kind in cases like these. I fully agree dealing with the NCAA can present its problems, but this is what has to be done to get Thatch his red shirt.

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Per NCAA rules, the "injury must be incapacitating and must be a season-ending injury" and the athlete needs to supply documentation from the physician(s) with signatures on the doctor's official letterhead. I don't know anything about Thatch's specific condition or what it will take to get there - all I'm saying is what the NCAA requires.

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28 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Per NCAA rules, the "injury must be incapacitating and must be a season-ending injury" and the athlete needs to supply documentation from the physician(s) with signatures on the doctor's official letterhead. I don't know anything about Thatch's specific condition or what it will take to get there - all I'm saying is what the NCAA requires.

Don't disagree but keep in mind that NCAA rules are written so that in the end the NCAA can do whatever the heck they want to. The NCAA refers to a medical redshirt as a medical "hardship"waiver, what is a "hardship"? Whatever the NCAA says it is. They actually list alcohol and drug abuse as possible grounds for a medical redshirt. 

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14 minutes ago, MichaelC said:

Don't disagree but keep in mind that NCAA rules are written so that in the end the NCAA can do whatever the heck they want to. The NCAA refers to a medical redshirt as a medical "hardship"waiver, what is a "hardship"? Whatever the NCAA says it is. They actually list alcohol and drug abuse as possible grounds for a medical redshirt. 

Oh, I know it. The word "redshirt" also isn't in the rule book, but the only point I'm making is that to get what is commonly known as a medical redshirt, a physician needs to officially sign off on the fact that Fred's condition is season-ending in nature. If he doesn't have a definitive diagnosis at this point or it's not something that officially shuts him down, then a doctor can't do that and he won't get a redshirt.

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1 hour ago, Pistol said:

Per NCAA rules, the "injury must be incapacitating and must be a season-ending injury" and the athlete needs to supply documentation from the physician(s) with signatures on the doctor's official letterhead. I don't know anything about Thatch's specific condition or what it will take to get there - all I'm saying is what the NCAA requires.

Pistol, any injury at all is capable of causing some degree of limitations. The issue is how severe is the degree of limitations produced by the injury. In Fred's case, there is no injury, there is a chronic disease that is producing the limitations. I am positive that any capable medical expert in this type of realm can make a reasonable claim supporting the NCAA wording and equaling his disease produced limitations to injury produced limitations. I am also certain they can support the claim this is a season ending issue. What I am not certain about is the number of playing minutes that will be required under the NCAA definition for them to say he is not suffering from a season ending problem. For example, if he can play 6 minutes per game does this make it a season ending problem? I presume the NCAA will look into this.

 

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-just get some doctor, any doctor, from KU, UK, UNC or Duke to sign something and whatever will be granted, a shame I have become that jaded when it comes to the NCAA

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This university has a huge hospital with its name on it and a ridiculous number of doctors practicing under the SLU Care umbrella.  We should be able to get a doctor to give us the letter.  Heck, if there are doctors out there signing off on anyone who wants it getting a weed certificate or people being able to bring peacock's on airplanes, Ford certainly should be able to get one doctor to give us the documentation that Fred needs.

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I think they're going to defer to the team doctor(s) on this one instead of finding some crooked Dr. Nick to sign off on whatever.

It's good to have strong relationships with your team doctors.

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Not sure it means much at this point, but per SLU Men’s BBall Instagram, Thatch was at least a partial participant in today’s pregame practice/shoot around. 

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I'm not pretending to be a doctor or expert here, but wouldn't the fact that Thatch has been practicing pretty regularly not align with the NCAA's requirement of the injury being "incapacitating?"

 

 

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Just now, glazedandconfused said:

I'm not pretending to be a doctor or expert here, but wouldn't the fact that Thatch has been practicing pretty regularly not align with the NCAA's requirement of the injury being "incapacitating?"

 

 

no, practicing is not the same as being able to play in a game...

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5 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

no, practicing is not the same as being able to play in a game...

to me its like this.  He broke his ankle, sat out a few weeks, now hes practicing waiting for doctors to clear him.  How/why would they allow him to practice, and not clear him.  If the problem is what they say, you would think he couldn't practice until he's been cleared. I mean, it doesn't even make sense. Theres truly no difference between scrimmaging and a real game. 

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7 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

no, practicing is not the same as being able to play in a game...

Wouldn't an outside observer (NCAA) look at Thatch's situation (practicing regularly, played with team early in season, no "injury" to speak of) and conclude that Thatch could play in a game. He physically could play tonight vs Davidson, or else he wouldn't be practicing.

 

^Agreed @wgstl

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