BillsBeliever!!! Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 It’s also hilarious how Lundardi has Tulsa as the last team in even though we have a better NET ranking, more Q1 wins, and no Q3 or Q4 losses while they have zero Q1 wins, and have 1 Q3 loss and one Q4 loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBL_Bills Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 7 hours ago, BillsBeliever!!! said: It’s also hilarious how Lundardi has Tulsa as the last team in even though we have a better NET ranking, more Q1 wins, and no Q3 or Q4 losses while they have zero Q1 wins, and have 1 Q3 loss and one Q4 loss Recency bias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Light Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 14 hours ago, BillsBeliever!!! said: I find it interesting that Palm at CBS likes the A10 a lot more than Lundardi. Wonder why they are so different Lunardi probably has been subconsciously biased into thinking the A10 is terrible because he has to call all of St. Joe's games. Brutul! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewsorlose Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 36 minutes ago, Matty Light said: Lunardi probably has been subconsciously biased into thinking the A10 is terrible because he has to call all of St. Joe's games. Brutul! Tulsa is in caps, meaning they're winning their conference. He did this for Duquesne earlier in the year. The fact that they're a 12 seed means that they're close to the bubble anyway. They still play Wichita twice and Houston once. But if they go 12-4 in a conference like that, they probably will be deserving. 3star_recruit likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 SLU dropped 2 spots to #69. ETSU still above us at #66. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 K State at 80 - closing in on Q1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, moytoy12 said: SLU dropped 2 spots to #69. ETSU still above us at #66. Understanding that the NCAA now uses the NET, for comparison purposes, SLU’s RPI is 50. The NET seems to be working against SLU, in part likely due to too many close call wins, playing down to the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compton Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, moytoy12 said: SLU dropped 2 spots to #69. ETSU still above us at #66. I don’t think there’s any way of knowing, but I wonder how a 12 point regulation win would have caused that 2 spot drop to differ - if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonball18 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/28/2020 at 9:22 PM, dennis_w said: Explain how a 12th place team can get in? dont understand I'm not saying I believe 12 teams should be in (I generally want more and more Mid-Majors in every year) but if you are playing so many Top 25 teams, and many Top 10 teams night after night, you very well could be deserving of a bid even though your record may not indicate it. A 18-20 win 12th place team in one of the deepest conferences in years at least deserves to be on the bubble with a 24 win team from the Sun Belt. As much as I hate to say it, this may be a tough selection day for many Mid-Majors. This is why we can't afford to give away quality wins with atrocious free throw shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Spoonball18 said: I'm not saying I believe 12 teams should be in (I generally want more and more Mid-Majors in every year) but if you are playing so many Top 25 teams, and many Top 10 teams night after night, you very well could be deserving of a bid even though your record may not indicate it. A 18-20 win 12th place team in one of the deepest conferences in years at least deserves to be on the bubble with a 24 win team from the Sun Belt. As much as I hate to say it, this may be a tough selection day for many Mid-Majors. This is why we can't afford to give away quality wins with atrocious free throw shooting. The Big 10 is having a fantastic season but two of those 12 teams are in serious danger. Purdue and Minnesota are both at 11-10 and would have to play their best ball of season to reach 18 wins. The way I look at being the worst free throw shooting team is it's the cost of an equally unlikely event: having two of the top 5 rebounders in Billikens history on the team at the same time. There's always going to be a trade off for a mid-major to have high-caliber recruits: they will leave early (Hughes), or have personal issues (Gordon), or have a glaring hole in their game (Goodwin, French). I will gladly accept atrocious free throwing shooting as the cost of having those two kids on my team. slufanskip likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Spoonball18 said: I'm not saying I believe 12 teams should be in (I generally want more and more Mid-Majors in every year) but if you are playing so many Top 25 teams, and many Top 10 teams night after night, you very well could be deserving of a bid even though your record may not indicate it. A 18-20 win 12th place team in one of the deepest conferences in years at least deserves to be on the bubble with a 24 win team from the Sun Belt. As much as I hate to say it, this may be a tough selection day for many Mid-Majors. This is why we can't afford to give away quality wins with atrocious free throw shooting. I get your point but here is the thing - when baseball nerds talk about Batting Avg not being important they do have something of a point but the problem with their position is that it is hard to score runs if you do not get people on base - yes walks are good but they also do not negatively impact your Batting Avg. so you can extol them as being good but it does not completely replace the need to still get hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 hours ago, Spoonball18 said: I'm not saying I believe 12 teams should be in (I generally want more and more Mid-Majors in every year) but if you are playing so many Top 25 teams, and many Top 10 teams night after night, you very well could be deserving of a bid even though your record may not indicate it. A 18-20 win 12th place team in one of the deepest conferences in years at least deserves to be on the bubble with a 24 win team from the Sun Belt. As much as I hate to say it, this may be a tough selection day for many Mid-Majors. This is why we can't afford to give away quality wins with atrocious free throw shooting. Spoonball. Appreciate your opinion but I could not disagree more. An 18-20 win record team in a P5 conference is exactly the team which does NOT belong in the Tournament. If win-loss record is not to be used, then what? The Jay Billas "eye test"? Reward team b/c of their name? their coach? their prior performance in prior years with different players? Sorry, if you cannot win over half your conference games, then find an easier conference. Or might I suggest these teams schedule a bonding trip to enjoy the last of the snow skiing for the year or go play golf somewhere? Road conference games are hard to win in ANY conference and home conference game wins are expected. An 18-20 team from a P5 conference already starts with half this number of wins from playing a selective, home-only OOC schedule and then roughly wins the rest of its wins with home conference game wins and an occasional road win -- not the sign of a team which deserves a bid. stmdragons and dennis_w like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compton Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Good night for the Bill's schedule along with the win over Saint Joe's. Wins by the Quad 1-3 teams we've beat - Richmond, Belmont, Valpo, Southern Ill., and a big road win by BC over UNC (which may make them a Quad 2) - will handily outweigh the losses by K.State (to 12th ranked West Virginia), UMass and Tulane. UMass will drop to Quad 4, but could be replaced by Eastern Washington as a Quad 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Moved up 2 spots in NET to 68. Ahead of NC State and Tennessee. Tulsa jumped 9 spots to 60 after beating Wichita State. https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 SLU needs to (a) win at Dayton and (b) protect the home court, which means home court wins over Duquesne, VCU and St. Bona; or (c) win the A10 Tournament. It should be easier to win the A10 Tournament by finishing in the Top 4 and earning the double bye, not having to play until Friday's Quarterfinals. This NET is rigged for the Power 5 + 1 or 2, just like the RPI was rigged for them, except it appears even more so in the case of the NET. For comparison purposes, SLU's RPI is 47, but its NET is 68. An RPI of 47 for an A10 school like SLU would usually be IN. A NET of 68 for an A10 school like SLU is OUT. The Billikens still have work to do. But an NCAA bid is still doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledbilliken Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 How often is the NET updated? Is it essentially updated in real time? Or is it like the AP rankings that is updated once a week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Just now, disgruntledbilliken said: How often is the NET updated? Is it essentially updated in real time? Or is it like the AP rankings that is updated once a week? Updated daily disgruntledbilliken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 minute ago, disgruntledbilliken said: How often is the NET updated? Is it essentially updated in real time? Or is it like the AP rankings that is updated once a week? Every morning now disgruntledbilliken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewsorlose Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Bay Area Billiken said: SLU needs to (a) win at Dayton and (b) protect the home court, which means home court wins over Duquesne, VCU and St. Bona; or (c) win the A10 Tournament. It should be easier to win the A10 Tournament by finishing in the Top 4 and earning the double bye, not having to play until Friday's Quarterfinals. This NET is rigged for the Power 5 + 1 or 2, just like the RPI was rigged for them, except it appears even more so in the case of the NET. For comparison purposes, SLU's RPI is 47, but its NET is 68. An RPI of 47 for an A10 school like SLU would usually be IN. A NET of 68 for an A10 school like SLU is OUT. The Billikens still have work to do. But an NCAA bid is still doable. RPI doesn't account for margin of victory at all. It's easy to see why SLU would be rewarded in such a ranking. We blow nobody out. glazedandconfused likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, Crewsorlose said: RPI doesn't account for margin of victory at all. It's easy to see why SLU would be rewarded in such a ranking. We blow nobody out. And yet the RPI was used by the NCAA for many years, when Sagarin, Pomeroy, et al., that account for margin of victory, were available and ignored by the NCAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazedandconfused Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said: And yet the RPI was used by the NCAA for many years, when Sagarin, Pomeroy, et al., that account for margin of victory, were available and ignored by the NCAA. Sagarin and KenPom should be ignored by NCAA. They are predictive formulas and not indicative of which teams have had best season so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Few items I have read addressed in numerous posts above. The NET does count margin of victory, up to 10 points. The NCAA Committee still used both Sagarin and KenPom as resources, along with the NET. They no longer use RPI. If you are interested in the full resource list, and how the committee selects teams, goggle the topic. While NET is likely the resource with the highest weight, it isn't the golden rule. If it was, everyone could select the field using the numerical NET order. Last season, St. John's got an At large with an NET of 73. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 43 minutes ago, HoosierPal said: Few items I have read addressed in numerous posts above. The NET does count margin of victory, up to 10 points. The NCAA Committee still used both Sagarin and KenPom as resources, along with the NET. They no longer use RPI. If you are interested in the full resource list, and how the committee selects teams, goggle the topic. While NET is likely the resource with the highest weight, it isn't the golden rule. If it was, everyone could select the field using the numerical NET order. Last season, St. John's got an At large with an NET of 73. Irrespective of what the NCAA says, from observing the NCAA Selection process for years, there were only about 3 variances per year in the actual NCAA at large selections and the RPI, and most of those benefits were to the benefit of the Power 5 + 1 (Big East). St. John's is Big East, in Jamaica Queens, New York City, meaning the Nation"s #1 media market. The poster teams for NCAA snubbery are Missouri State (x2) and St. Bonaventure. Regrettably, a school from the A10, outside the Power 5 + 1 (Big East) or maybe 2 (AAC) like SLU is not going to get an NCAA Tournament at large bid with a NET (or in the past RPI) of 68. That team is likely to get an NIT bid, however. SLU still has the opportunity, there is still work to be done. And it is doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compton Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said: SLU needs to (a) win at Dayton and (b) protect the home court, which means home court wins over Duquesne, VCU and St. Bona; or (c) win the A10 Tournament. There are more paths to an at-large than winning in Dayton. Rhode Island and VCU are building resumes to the point that, winning those two would still result in a significant move upwards (by adding a Quad 1 and Quad 2 win) even with a loss to Dayton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewsorlose Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Compton said: There are more paths to an at-large than winning in Dayton. Rhode Island and VCU are building resumes to the point that, winning those two would still result in a significant move upwards (by adding a Quad 1 and Quad 2 win) even with a loss to Dayton. Exactly. My problem this whole season has not been that there's a super narrow path, it's more that the team has played so unevenly that it's unlikely they walk that path. We just avoided catastrophe, twice, by the narrowest of margins. Team went 6-3 in first half of A-10 play. 6-3 in the back half still has us looking pretty good. 7-2 has us on right side of the bubble going to Brooklyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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