A10 Deficits

[Cowboy]

33 minutes ago, CBFan said:

JGood also had something troubling him, S2, and that had a lot to do with his play yet he improved.  I think with JGood is on the brink of being something special with S2 in his rear view mirror.

-I wonder if he is taking courses at a CC that would transfer into SLU so as to not get too far behind? 

[wgstl]

45 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I wonder if he is taking courses at a CC that would transfer into SLU so as to not get too far behind? 

Good question. 

The only thing I know about Jgood over the last few months is that hes been practicing with Roby and Phil Forte. Forte shot above .40% from 3 in his career, I hope hes showing jgood some things. 

[slu72]

20 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

   but what 72 gives you the impression that jacobs will be the emerging player that will grab the 5th starting spot at the wing?    

At this juncture a reasonable starting lineup of Goodwin, Jacobs, Bess, French, and Gordon makes sense to me. The reason I'm high on Jacobs is his Chicago pedigree, the one year of prep school (puts him slightly ahead of our other FR), and his video highlights (don't laugh or cough). He's athletic and can get to the hoop. I see him in the Roby role. It was difficult to tell who was the primary PG last year when J Good and Roby or Hines were on the floor together. I see Travis sticking w/ that approach this year w/ Jacobs being a better Roby. The one caveat here is Jacobs perimeter game. We need someone on the floor who is a legit 3 pt threat at all times to really be successful. Especially against teams that can shoot 3's. You see it all the time and the math is fairly simple, 3 is greater than 2. Roby had his moments hitting 3's but you wouldn't exactly call him a legit consistent 3 point threat, ala an Adams or Mobley from St. B's. Of course, those two were exceptional. Not saying we need an exceptional 3 pt shooter, although it would be nice but not realistic given our current roster, just someone who's enough of a threat to keep the opponent's D honest and open up the lanes to get our bigs the ball inside, or allow J Good and Bess to get their drives to the hoop. Then again, J. Good and Bess should be working on their 3 shots a lot over the summer. Think about how dangerous these two would be if they could hit threes at a +35% rate. They both have good form and a quick release. The only thing missing now is the ball hitting nothing but net. Travis was a legit 3 pt threat at UK, he's got to sell these guys his formula.

 

[slu72]

Are these heights legit: J.Good 6'4", Jacobs 6'2", Thatch 6'4", Pearson 6'7", Johnson 6'7", Gordon 6'8", Foreman 6'7", French 6'7", Santos 6'8", Thor 6'4", Bess 6'6", Wellmer (if he suits up) 6'8"? If so, that makes for a pretty big athletic lineup for the A10.

[Old guy]

Slu72 it makes for a rather large in size team. Do you remember John Manning at 6'11" and Brett Jolly at 6'9" were they athletic? were they good players? I agree we have every reason to expect good things for the team next year, it does have athleticism and it does have size. But we have had size without athleticism before and it did not work well. 

[NextYearBill]

20 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Do you remember John Manning at 6'11" and Brett Jolly at 6'9" were they athletic? were they good players? 

Don't confront us with our failures, we haven't forgotten them. 

[Pistol]

26 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Are these heights legit: J.Good 6'4", Jacobs 6'2", Thatch 6'4", Pearson 6'7", Johnson 6'7", Gordon 6'8", Foreman 6'7", French 6'7", Santos 6'8", Thor 6'4", Bess 6'6", Wellmer (if he suits up) 6'8"? If so, that makes for a pretty big athletic lineup for the A10.

I'd put Welmer at 6-9, Gordon at 6-7, Pearson at 6-8, and Thatch at 6-2. But it's not height with this crew (which honestly isn't a very tall roster), it's how strong and physical most of them are. This will be one of the best rebounding teams in SLU history, and could break the record for blocks in a season (169) and should also be up there in steals (not sure what the team record is, but this team could and should set it). This will be the second year in a row we don't have anyone 6-10 or taller on the roster, which is actually pretty rare, but they have size in a different way. And toughness.

[HoosierPal]

33 minutes ago, slu72 said:

At this juncture a reasonable starting lineup of Goodwin, Jacobs, Bess, French, and Gordon makes sense to me. The reason I'm high on Jacobs is his Chicago pedigree, the one year of prep school (puts him slightly ahead of our other FR), and his video highlights (don't laugh or cough). He's athletic and can get to the hoop. I see him in the Roby role. It was difficult to tell who was the primary PG last year when J Good and Roby or Hines were on the floor together. I see Travis sticking w/ that approach this year w/ Jacobs being a better Roby. The one caveat here is Jacobs perimeter game. We need someone on the floor who is a legit 3 pt threat at all times to really be successful. Especially against teams that can shoot 3's. You see it all the time and the math is fairly simple, 3 is greater than 2. Roby had his moments hitting 3's but you wouldn't exactly call him a legit consistent 3 point threat, ala an Adams or Mobley from St. B's. Of course, those two were exceptional. Not saying we need an exceptional 3 pt shooter, although it would be nice but not realistic given our current roster, just someone who's enough of a threat to keep the opponent's D honest and open up the lanes to get our bigs the ball inside, or allow J Good and Bess to get their drives to the hoop. Then again, J. Good and Bess should be working on their 3 shots a lot over the summer. Think about how dangerous these two would be if they could hit threes at a +35% rate. They both have good form and a quick release. The only thing missing now is the ball hitting nothing but net. Travis was a legit 3 pt threat at UK, he's got to sell these guys his formula.

 

This time of the year we all have opinions on next season.  Everyone is right at this time.  But put out a potential lineup, and you will be challenged.  So don't take it personal 72.

IF MaxSports is correct, Jacobs made 10 three pointers in 25 games last year.  He took 23.  That won't cut it.  That is not a threat.  Bess hit for 27% last season.  He has worked with Ford for two years now, so to predict he will get to 35%, to me, is a reach.  If Ford didn't get him there over the last two seasons, he won't get him there this off season.  (Same with Foreman's FT's.)  Goodwin was at 24%.  Let's hope for 30%.   That is why I see Johnson as getting heavy minutes early season.  "But he can't guard a SF on the other team!"  How much zone did we play last season - I'm guessing over 50%.  Johnson can play on top or a wing on the zone.  

The college game is so much faster than high school.  College ball is a huge step up in defenses faced.  Let the freshmen work their way into the lineup.  If one shows he can be that three point threat, great.  Until then, I'm going with known shooters.  

[HoosierPal]

2 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I'd put Welmer at 6-9, Gordon at 6-7, Pearson at 6-8, and Thatch at 6-2. But it's not height with this crew (which honestly isn't a very tall roster), it's how strong and physical most of them are. This will be one of the best rebounding teams in SLU history, and could break the record for blocks in a season (169) and should also be up there in steals (not sure what the team record is, but this team could and should set it). This will be the second year in a row we don't have anyone 6-10 or taller on the roster, which is actually pretty rare, but they have size in a different way. And toughness.

I have Grawer's 1990-91 team with 298 steals.  My records go back to 1988-89 and that is the highest since then.

Not sure when they started tracking steals but I think it was around 1980.

[ACE]

48 minutes ago, slu72 said:

At this juncture a reasonable starting lineup of Goodwin, Jacobs, Bess, French, and Gordon makes sense to me. The reason I'm high on Jacobs is his Chicago pedigree, the one year of prep school (puts him slightly ahead of our other FR), and his video highlights (don't laugh or cough). He's athletic and can get to the hoop. I see him in the Roby role. It was difficult to tell who was the primary PG last year when J Good and Roby or Hines were on the floor together. I see Travis sticking w/ that approach this year w/ Jacobs being a better Roby. The one caveat here is Jacobs perimeter game. We need someone on the floor who is a legit 3 pt threat at all times to really be successful. Especially against teams that can shoot 3's. You see it all the time and the math is fairly simple, 3 is greater than 2. Roby had his moments hitting 3's but you wouldn't exactly call him a legit consistent 3 point threat, ala an Adams or Mobley from St. B's. Of course, those two were exceptional. Not saying we need an exceptional 3 pt shooter, although it would be nice but not realistic given our current roster, just someone who's enough of a threat to keep the opponent's D honest and open up the lanes to get our bigs the ball inside, or allow J Good and Bess to get their drives to the hoop. Then again, J. Good and Bess should be working on their 3 shots a lot over the summer. Think about how dangerous these two would be if they could hit threes at a +35% rate. They both have good form and a quick release. The only thing missing now is the ball hitting nothing but net. Travis was a legit 3 pt threat at UK, he's got to sell these guys his formula.

 

I don't expect Jacobs or Thatch next year to be better than Roby was this past year. For their careers I think each has more upside, but not next year. Still hoping for a grad transfer guard, so the three freshmen guards can have a little more time to develop.

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, ACE said:

I don't expect Jacobs or Thatch next year to be better than Roby was this past year. For their careers I think each has more upside, but not next year. Still hoping for a grad transfer guard, so the three freshmen guards can have a little more time to develop.

100000000% agree. 

[Pistol]

15 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I have Grawer's 1990-91 team with 298 steals.  My records go back to 1988-89 and that is the highest since then.

Not sure when they started tracking steals but I think it was around 1980.

We had 198 last season, sort of in the middle of the D-I pack, and that was playing at a pretty slow pace with 7-8 guys all year. I expect things to pick up this season with a full roster, and strong, athletic players at every position and good length among the guards and wings. I could see this team getting close to 300, and it'd be cool to top that.

[slu72]

50 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

This time of the year we all have opinions on next season.  Everyone is right at this time.  But put out a potential lineup, and you will be challenged.  So don't take it personal 72.

IF MaxSports is correct, Jacobs made 10 three pointers in 25 games last year.  He took 23.  That won't cut it.  That is not a threat.  Bess hit for 27% last season.  He has worked with Ford for two years now, so to predict he will get to 35%, to me, is a reach.  If Ford didn't get him there over the last two seasons, he won't get him there this off season.  (Same with Foreman's FT's.)  Goodwin was at 24%.  Let's hope for 30%.   That is why I see Johnson as getting heavy minutes early season.  "But he can't guard a SF on the other team!"  How much zone did we play last season - I'm guessing over 50%.  Johnson can play on top or a wing on the zone.  

The college game is so much faster than high school.  College ball is a huge step up in defenses faced.  Let the freshmen work their way into the lineup.  If one shows he can be that three point threat, great.  Until then, I'm going with known shooters.  

No problem. This is all about discussions and opinions. Obviously, my pick of Jacobs is pure speculation. And unless Travis finds a legit 3 point guy, it wouldn't surprise me to see Jaylen and Bess as the 2 and 3 options. Jaylen shot 39% last year from the 3 and that's the best we got right now. Jalen strikes me as being pretty one dimensional, ie 3 threat, but he also demonstrated he can haul down some boards as well. Plus, he's a hard worker and one of our more experienced guys which will make Travis more comfortable in playing him significant minutes over the FR.

But if Travis wants to have a running team because of our inside strengths, I'd expect Jacobs to be involved in that mix.

[TFord and TRavs]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

Are these heights legit: J.Good 6'4", Jacobs 6'2", Thatch 6'4", Pearson 6'7", Johnson 6'7", Gordon 6'8", Foreman 6'7", French 6'7", Santos 6'8", Thor 6'4", Bess 6'6", Wellmer (if he suits up) 6'8"? If so, that makes for a pretty big athletic lineup for the A10.

That’s nba height right there 

[slu72]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

I'd put Welmer at 6-9, Gordon at 6-7, Pearson at 6-8, and Thatch at 6-2. But it's not height with this crew (which honestly isn't a very tall roster), it's how strong and physical most of them are. This will be one of the best rebounding teams in SLU history, and could break the record for blocks in a season (169) and should also be up there in steals (not sure what the team record is, but this team could and should set it). This will be the second year in a row we don't have anyone 6-10 or taller on the roster, which is actually pretty rare, but they have size in a different way. And toughness.

Agree, we're not a really big team, although we will play big because of sheer athleticism. For the A10, I think we're pretty good sized compared to others. Would I like to see us with a Rob Loe, sure, who wouldn't? But I'd take our inside guys over Dead's formula of stiff Redwoods every day of the week.

[Littlebill]

8 minutes ago, TFord and TRavs said:

That’s nba height right there 

Our big guys are 6-7, 6-7, 6-8, 6-8. 

[NH]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

I'd put Welmer at 6-9, Gordon at 6-7, Pearson at 6-8, and Thatch at 6-2. But it's not height with this crew (which honestly isn't a very tall roster), it's how strong and physical most of them are. This will be one of the best rebounding teams in SLU history, and could break the record for blocks in a season (169) and should also be up there in steals (not sure what the team record is, but this team could and should set it). This will be the second year in a row we don't have anyone 6-10 or taller on the roster, which is actually pretty rare, but they have size in a different way. And toughness.

Agreed regarding physicality. We were very tall when we ran out Bartley, Roby, Crawford, Yarborough, Neufeld Gillman, etc. but we got bullied physically.

 

I would also put Goodwin closer to 6’2.5”

 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

This time of the year we all have opinions on next season.  Everyone is right at this time.  But put out a potential lineup, and you will be challenged.  So don't take it personal 72.

IF MaxSports is correct, Jacobs made 10 three pointers in 25 games last year.  He took 23.  That won't cut it.  That is not a threat.  Bess hit for 27% last season.  He has worked with Ford for two years now, so to predict he will get to 35%, to me, is a reach.  If Ford didn't get him there over the last two seasons, he won't get him there this off season.  (Same with Foreman's FT's.)  Goodwin was at 24%.  Let's hope for 30%.   That is why I see Johnson as getting heavy minutes early season.  "But he can't guard a SF on the other team!"  How much zone did we play last season - I'm guessing over 50%.  Johnson can play on top or a wing on the zone.  

The college game is so much faster than high school.  College ball is a huge step up in defenses faced.  Let the freshmen work their way into the lineup.  If one shows he can be that three point threat, great.  Until then, I'm going with known shooters.  

says the guy that didnt think goodwin was worthy of being a starter prior to last season or that bess could score and shoot free throws.   

[dlarry]

21 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

filled mean nothing.   taj and I can fill the spots.   do you have the equal or better of henriquez was the question.

You and Taj?  No way!

With you two on the team we will have S3 on our hands by mid September. 

😉

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

We had 198 last season, sort of in the middle of the D-I pack, and that was playing at a pretty slow pace with 7-8 guys all year. I expect things to pick up this season with a full roster, and strong, athletic players at every position and good length among the guards and wings. I could see this team getting close to 300, and it'd be cool to top that.

I went back to 1978-79 on SR CBB site and didn't top the 298 from Grawer's team.  Even the season when Burns and Johnson landed on the top 10 list didn't beat the 298.  (The SRCBB site lists the 90-91 total at 300.  The Stats link on Billikens.com and my spreadsheets both list 298.)  Over the past 30 seasons, we have averaged 212.3 steals per season.

[Pistol]

30 minutes ago, NH said:

Agreed regarding physicality. We were very tall when we ran out Bartley, Roby, Crawford, Yarborough, Neufeld Gillman, etc. but we got bullied physically.

I would also put Goodwin closer to 6’2.5”

That's tough on Goodwin. I think he's north of 6-3, but maybe just because he has good overall size and length. He's definitely taller than Thatch, though.

This team will be unrecognizable compared to those two bad Crews teams and the first Ford year. They'll be the absolute bullies of the A10. We might get outrebounded every once in a while overall because that's just how things go, but I don't think any other team in the conference will be able to outdo this team physically. They'll have to beat us in other ways.

Foreman already showed us he can get his points in the A10, and he's the leanest and least physical of the frontline next season. Santos has a huge frame, we all know what French was like as a freshman, and Gordon's all-around athleticism as a forward is unmatched in the league.

Then you've got Goodwin and Bess, who both play big and aggressive at their positions, with Thatch and Jacobs backing them up, and the exact same could be said for these two.

JJ showed more willingness and ability to rebound this past season. Pearson doesn't strike me as a particularly tough or physical player but he hasn't needed to be yet because he's so long and skilled. Euros don't generally bring a tough, physical game to the table but Gudmundsson's brother at Davidson is a pest. Welmer just brings a different skill set to the table (assuming he plays).

[Pistol]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I have Grawer's 1990-91 team with 298 steals.  My records go back to 1988-89 and that is the highest since then.

Not sure when they started tracking steals but I think it was around 1980.

 

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

We had 198 last season, sort of in the middle of the D-I pack, and that was playing at a pretty slow pace with 7-8 guys all year. I expect things to pick up this season with a full roster, and strong, athletic players at every position and good length among the guards and wings. I could see this team getting close to 300, and it'd be cool to top that.

 

21 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I went back to 1978-79 on SR CBB site and didn't top the 298 from Grawer's team.  Even the season when Burns and Johnson landed on the top 10 list didn't beat the 298.  (The SRCBB site lists the 90-91 total at 300.  The Stats link on Billikens.com and my spreadsheets both list 298.)  Over the past 30 seasons, we have averaged 212.3 steals per season.

The more I think about this, the safer I think that record of 298 is.

I started doing some quick math in my head and realized that we'd need about 9 steals per game to reach that number, and that's a tall task. Only 7 D-I teams would've beaten that 298 mark this past season and an average team ends up in the low 200s, with about 6 to 6.5 steals per game.

Anyway, this team should be one of our best ever in steals and may challenge that number, but I'd be shocked if they hit it.

[Taj79]

roy says his time in prison has fully rehabilitated him so no S3.0 there.  I, however, am gonna need a constant chaperone.  College girls get me all giggly.

 

[billiken_roy]

28 minutes ago, dlarry said:

You and Taj?  No way!

With you two on the team we will have S3 on our hands by mid September. 

😉

well thanks for the encouraging words.   taj and i work very hard at projecting our clean image.    

[slufan13]

Welmer's ability to stretch the floor would really open a lot of things up for this team. I really hope he's healthy. He isn't a star player and won't make any all-league teams but I really think he would do a lot for the offense.