Situation 1 and Rick Majerus

[ACE]

In the aftermath of S1, I mentioned that RM did a great job of keeping the program together. The team was poised to make an NCAA breakthrough with a great freshman class joining KM and WR. RM obviously was pissed at the result and especially considering his health, he could have easily bailed on the program and gone back to ESPN or gotten some cush front office job in the NBA or just enjoyed a stress free retirement. Instead, RM kept things together. While the team struggled to a 12-19 record, RM went on every two-bit local radio station and told the fans to stick with the team and that we were going to be really good the following year. Reed departed that season, but RM kept everybody together. Ellis, Loe, McCall, Jett and Evans all stuck with it. Nobody transferred after a frustrating season.

The two situations are not exactly the same, but there are some parallels. When people speculate about Ford bailing, that would be a big surprise to me. First of all, he hasn't done enough yet to warrant a better job. Also, he's still a fairly young coach and should take the long view of his career. His best course of action is to do what RM did - rally the troops. Jumping on the mic following the last game could be a small sign that he intends to fight through it. Keep the fan base motivated. If he can keep the current players together, he still has the makings of a very talented core. With French, Gordon, Foreman and Santos at the 4 & 5, plus Bess, Johnson and Pearson at the 3, Ford would clearly have by far the best front court in the A-10, best front court in SLU history and a frontline that most P5 programs would love to have. Ford's best is to "recruit" and sell the current players on sticking together. He's not likely to find a better core. Now he'd obviously still have a lot of work to do on the recruiting trail this spring, but the goal is clear. Focus on pg's and 2 guards. Ford and staff have proven to be capable recruiters and I think they'll be up to the task. Also, one positive is that it is generally easier to find good guards than it is to find quality bigs. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

Good post.  I edited the thread title for clarity and reading ease.  (There is a reason that American English style guides prescribe using full names before resorting to abbreviations for subsequent uses.)

[SluBallz]

I don’t think Ford will be leaving and I have been very pleased with the way Ford has the team playing right now.  They have had some major distractions and short on talent and players.  I like how some players have progressed and have gotten better.  

[Cowboy]

-I hope so Ace, I hope so

[BilliKat]

Thank you. I needed this positive perspective.

back on board. Bringing future recruit with me 😊

[GMan Alum]

I have to believe that Ford and crew have been recruiting as hard as ever, trying to keep all their options open in case they have a few more openings than originally anticipated.  I also have faith that IF HE STAYS the players Ford brings in will be as talented as those leaving.  

[Pistol]

Majerus knew he had a special freshman class, and he also got one of the two expelled players back the following season. He also had a few key veterans. Those special freshmen wound up getting more minutes and experience because of it, and maybe that helped them a wee bit in the long run. He did an admirable job of keeping them together and focused, and that class wound up being the most successful class we've ever had.

Looking for parallels, we have a special 2-man class right now and I think the incoming class has massive potential, too. The question is whether we'll get both of our current freshmen back.

@GMan Alum makes an important point, that it doesn't take long for Ford to replace departing players with better talent, but again, Goodwin is the big piece here. The other three can be replaced - we haven't even seen two of them, so it's hard to get attached - but Goodwin would be nearly impossible to replace in the spring. My fear is also that if we lose him, we lose more than just him. Gordon, for example, could ask out of his LOI. If we hang on to JG, the program can be patched up and move forward without needing a total rebuild.

[ACE]

15 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Majerus knew he had a special freshman class, and he also got one of the two expelled players back the following season. He also had a few key veterans. Those special freshmen wound up getting more minutes and experience because of it, and maybe that helped them a wee bit in the long run. He did an admirable job of keeping them together and focused, and that class wound up being the most successful class we've ever had.

Looking for parallels, we have a special 2-man class right now and I think the incoming class has massive potential, too. The question is whether we'll get both of our current freshmen back.

@GMan Alum makes an important point, that it doesn't take long for Ford to replace departing players with better talent, but again, Goodwin is the big piece here. The other three can be replaced - we haven't even seen two of them, so it's hard to get attached - but Goodwin would be nearly impossible to replace in the spring. My fear is also that if we lose him, we lose more than just him. Gordon, for example, could ask out of his LOI. If we hang on to JG, the program can be patched up and move forward without needing a total rebuild.

Wasn't Gordon's girlfriend a big reason he chose SLU? That seems like a bigger factor to him than Goodwin. Also, I don't think a lot of players ask out of a LOI unless there is a coaching change. Plus, it's up to Ford to continue to sell French and all the remaining players on the vision of sticking together. No doubt Ford is faced with challenges, but this will be a test of his leadership.

[JMM28]

There is a huge difference. Replacing 4 guys with little notice will not go well. It can't. It is either taking leftovers while fighting the perception of "wait why are these scholarships open" or banking a scholarship or two and playing at a numbers disadvantage for yet another year. 

Majerus had to replace Willie, which was a huge loss, but Kwamain was coming back. Rick also had a lot more talent on that team than Ford has on the current team. 

Losing 4 players will doom the program. These ridiculous sanctions also hurt the undeniable strongest point of this staff which is recruiting. 

Travis Ford is a good coach, but Rick was one of the best coaches in NCAA history. 

I'd love to have a better view, but it just isn't happening. All 4 gone = SLU bad for 5+ years. 

[slu72]

As long as Ford stays, I don't think we lose any of his transfers or French. Gordon goes if Goodwin goes? He said he was doing it for the city of St.L. Let's hope he wasn't blowing smoke. If the appeals stick it to Goodwin, who could blame him for kissing off SLU. Will he do it, or will he be like Kwamain and say I'd have to sit out a year either way? Of course, he would be back in a new school and working out w/ his new team.

Losing Goodwin is a gut punch. I just hope whatever the reason was for him playing this year, while the others were suspended, is that he was incidental to the whole deal and on appeal his punishment gets overturned.

Sit 1 blemished Rick's record of no losing seasons as a HC. Also, as stated above, he had plenty of options and didn't need the hassle. Another reason to just love the guy more. I also think his last season was a tough one on him physically, but he didn't take a medical when it probably would have been in his best interests.

As for Travis, I think he's coached his arse off this year both technically and emotionally. No doubt it's been a tough year for him, as I'm sure he believes if he had everyone eligible we had a legit shot at the NCAA. This team is an emotional roller coaster hence the reasons for losing to the likes of Det Mercy and W. Michigan and the blowout at LaSalle. But they've bounced back and given everyone else fits. With the missing parts I really think we would be looking at a team with only 4 losses 5 at the most. I'm sure this gnaws at him as it hurts his overall record, and he's not going to get the credit for completely turning a loser into a dancer in one quick season. Hopefully, he's as strong in character as Rick was and guts it out with SLU.

[SLU_Lax]

I think people keep missing the big difference between Kwamain and Goodwin is potentially huge.

Kwamain had to drop out for the semester of class he was currently in and was able to return to classes immediately the next semester.

Academically Goodwin would lose this semester, this summer, next fall, next spring, and the following summer if he stays at SLU.  He would essentially give up 4 terms of FREE education to stick with SLU.  This is bigger than basketball.  If he goes to another school, he might be able to get his masters when he is done with basketball.  If he stays with SLU, it will be a lot of work for him to just get his undergrad degree (since he will already be losing this semester's progress).

I hope he stays and think he will if he is treated in anything resembling a just manner, but (as it stands right now) the school administration has gone out of their way to ruin his life and ensure he does not continue with SLU.  I also still think it is not guaranteed Bess and Foreman stay.  It will depend on what they end up thinking about the whole situation.  I am hopeful that Ford's exceptional interpersonal skills convince them to (most likely) forego their final opportunity to play in the NCAA tournament to stick with SLU.

[cheeseman]

28 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

There is a huge difference. Replacing 4 guys with little notice will not go well. It can't. It is either taking leftovers while fighting the perception of "wait why are these scholarships open" or banking a scholarship or two and playing at a numbers disadvantage for yet another year. 

Majerus had to replace Willie, which was a huge loss, but Kwamain was coming back. Rick also had a lot more talent on that team than Ford has on the current team. 

Losing 4 players will doom the program. These ridiculous sanctions also hurt the undeniable strongest point of this staff which is recruiting. 

Travis Ford is a good coach, but Rick was one of the best coaches in NCAA history. 

I'd love to have a better view, but it just isn't happening. All 4 gone = SLU bad for 5+ years. 

I think you are selling the players who will be here short.  French, Bess, Foreman, Johnson, Santos, Thatch, Gordon, and Pearson.  This is a pretty good core group to build around and I have not even mentioned the possibility of Goodwin being here at some point.  All Ford has to do is replace a couple of the missing players with guards - grad transfers, in coming freshmen or Juccos.  This gives him 10-11 players.  The pg situation is questionable but Ford will have to earn his money in that area.  When Ford came he had Crew's left overs that were not even close to what the group above provides.  At this point his best bet is to stay and keep his plan on target.  If Goodwin only gets a year or less then he will stay - transferring will cost him another semester so staying is his best bet.  This issue is more a need of a recruiter than a HOF coach.  I would be willing to bet that next year Ford can easily have a winning record and a top half finish in the A10 - heck he almost has that now.  The year after if he continues recruiting well the team will be ready to fly high - not even close to the 5 years you are predicting.  The sky is not falling - remember, a man who keeps his head when all around him are losing theirs will be the one who gets the brass ring.  

[ACE]

38 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

There is a huge difference. Replacing 4 guys with little notice will not go well. It can't. It is either taking leftovers while fighting the perception of "wait why are these scholarships open" or banking a scholarship or two and playing at a numbers disadvantage for yet another year. 

Majerus had to replace Willie, which was a huge loss, but Kwamain was coming back. Rick also had a lot more talent on that team than Ford has on the current team. 

Losing 4 players will doom the program. These ridiculous sanctions also hurt the undeniable strongest point of this staff which is recruiting. 

Travis Ford is a good coach, but Rick was one of the best coaches in NCAA history. 

I'd love to have a better view, but it just isn't happening. All 4 gone = SLU bad for 5+ years. 

IF Ford can keep that front line together, your point about talent is debatable.

[Cowboy]

27 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I think you are selling the players who will be here short.  French, Bess, Foreman, Johnson, Santos, Thatch, Gordon, and Pearson.  This is a pretty good core group to build around and I have not even mentioned the possibility of Goodwin being here at some point.  All Ford has to do is replace a couple of the missing players with guards - grad transfers, in coming freshmen or Juccos.  This gives him 10-11 players.  The pg situation is questionable but Ford will have to earn his money in that area.  When Ford came he had Crew's left overs that were not even close to what the group above provides.  At this point his best bet is to stay and keep his plan on target.  If Goodwin only gets a year or less then he will stay - transferring will cost him another semester so staying is his best bet.  This issue is more a need of a recruiter than a HOF coach.  I would be willing to bet that next year Ford can easily have a winning record and a top half finish in the A10 - heck he almost has that now.  The year after if he continues recruiting well the team will be ready to fly high - not even close to the 5 years you are predicting.  The sky is not falling - remember, a man who keeps his head when all around him are losing theirs will be the one who gets the brass ring.  

-you posted two times in the last couple of days about who will be playing next year with no caveats or hedging, do you know something? or is this just hope?

[willie]

12 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-you posted two times in the last couple of days about who will be playing next year with no caveats or hedging, do you know something? or is this just hope?

 I have not given up hope that Jordan can somehow escape this with minor punishment. Maybe first semester and probation. And yes I know nothing. 

[cheeseman]

19 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-you posted two times in the last couple of days about who will be playing next year with no caveats or hedging, do you know something? or is this just hope?

Just common sense - why would Bess or Foreman or Santos leave - they already burned their red shirt year.  French would only leave if he is unhappy and given that he is starting I doubt that he will want to leave.  Ford and Tate should be able to keep the incoming class in tow.  I have qualified the JG situation even though you say I give no caveats so reread that part.  Johnson could leave because Foreman has taken some of his time but I figure Ford can hold him here he is still playing good minutes just not starting.  The key is Ford staying and think he will for all the reasons given.  By the way, I have left Welmer off because I figure he is done with his career.

[billiken_roy]

3 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Just common sense - why would Bess or Foreman or Santos leave - they already burned their red shirt year.  French would only leave if he is unhappy and given that he is starting I doubt that he will want to leave.  Ford and Tate should be able to keep the incoming class in tow.  I have qualified the JG situation even though you say I give no caveats so reread that part.  Johnson could leave because Foreman has taken some of his time but I figure Ford can hold him here he is still playing good minutes just not starting.  The key is Ford staying and think he will for all the reasons given.  By the way, I have left Welmer off because I figure he is done with his career.

just for info and discussion purposes, if foreman and bess are graduates before next season, they could transfer and play without sitting out.   since they are in their 4th year of college there is a chance they are on pace to graduate.   

[kshoe]

3 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Just common sense - why would Bess or Foreman or Santos leave - they already burned their red shirt year.  French would only leave if he is unhappy and given that he is starting I doubt that he will want to leave.  Ford and Tate should be able to keep the incoming class in tow.  I have qualified the JG situation even though you say I give no caveats so reread that part.  Johnson could leave because Foreman has taken some of his time but I figure Ford can hold him here he is still playing good minutes just not starting.  The key is Ford staying and think he will for all the reasons given.  By the way, I have left Welmer off because I figure he is done with his career.

If they graduate this year, Bess and Foreman can leave with no restrictions and be immediately eligible.

[cheeseman]

Just now, kshoe said:

If they graduate this year, Bess and Foreman can leave with no restrictions and be immediately eligible.

Fair enough but I think Ford will keep them here - just my opinion.

[slufan13]

I think they both stay barring a perfect situation arising (close to home, big conference, surefire ncaa team, definite need at their position). Could be wrong but they both appear to like it here

[ACE]

Again, a lot comes back on Ford and how good of a salesman he is. He has to sell the current players on sticking together. Maybe some of the transfers, don't want to transfer yet again. That's not for everybody. They gotta rally. It's encouraging that on the court, it appears the guys continue to battle.